Arkane PREY - Arkane's immersive coffee cup transformation sim - now with Mooncrash roguelike mode DLC

[Blaine]

In all seriousness though, I'm playing on the hard difficulty (whatever it's called) and still have 10-20 cubes of each material, 100+ food items total, ~13 medkits, and ~12 suit repair kits.

I don't know if I want a survival mod that actually adds food needs or similar. Not every game that isn't filled with rainbows and gumdrops needs to be a survival-type game. However, if there are some particularly good mods, I'll consider using them.

 

[Blaine]

I agree, if I have to eat every 10 minutes in-game (which makes no sense given it's real-time), I should have to shit every 15-20 minutes or so also.

 

[Ash]

People don't want a survival patch to simulate realistic survival elements, they want a survival patch to provide consistent challenge, which in turn will make build choices, strategy, which path to take etc actually meaningfully relevant, and make the gameplay that much better. Game is too easy. Resource balance, combat difficulty etc aside, the handholdey elements we also assume would be toned down.

By "survival" we mean "don't die", and currently not dying isn't much a problem. It's such a shame.

Half-Life's tagline was "run shoot think live". An apt descriptor of old school gameplay. Sadly modern AAA games remove the need for the "think" and "live" part, though Prey is better at actually engaging the player than most.

 

[fantadomat]

The game is pretty easy,my only playtrough was on hard with no powers and i found out that the best weapon was the wrench. Just stun hit some enemy and beat it till it is dead,some enemies need two or three stuns till they die. For the flying things i used max upgraded laser and pistol for the bomb enemy.

 

[polo]

I found myself runnin out of minerals tho.

 

[racofer]

I found myself runnin out of minerals tho.

 

[Blaine]

Yeah, I just spray everything with lotion and beat it real hard with my tool in most cases.

 

[Blaine]

People don't want a survival patch to simulate realistic survival elements, they want a survival patch to provide consistent challenge, which in turn will make build choices, strategy, which path to take etc actually meaningfully relevant, and make the gameplay that much better. Game is too easy. Resource balance, combat difficulty etc aside, the handholdey elements we also assume would be toned down.

By "survival" we mean "don't die", and currently not dying isn't much a problem. It's such a shame.

Half-Life's tagline was "run shoot think live". An apt descriptor of old school gameplay. Sadly modern AAA games remove the need for the "think" and "live" part, though Prey is better at actually engaging the player than most.

Yeah, well, so far in my entire life the only single-player, first person-type game in which dying ever presented a real problem was Thief, and the game is sort of about avoiding that problem as much as possible. In Half-Life death wasn't really a "problem" at all; I'd describe them more as dynamic adventure game-style deaths that were presented via the gameplay rather than a pop-up screen. System Shock and System Shock 2, similarly, I can't recall ever viewing as particularly viciously difficult, nor Quake, Doom, Doom II, etc.

My caution when approaching player-made difficulty mods is that I don't want the difficulty cranked in obnoxious ways, such as turning enemies into ridiculous bullet sponges. Half-Life didn't have any of that nonsense except in a few parts. For example, the default settings of the Misery mod for Call of Pripyat grant bandits the vision of the most genetically perfect eagle ever to exist in all lighting and all weather, and causes bullets that they fire to simply not obey probability or the law of gravity. No thanks. That's just gay. If trudging through that sort of nonsense makes some people's peepees hard, then that's great, but it's not for me.

 

[Ash]

Beside the point. Old school FPS/FP games were moderately/adequately challenging (with some brutal exceptions like Turok). Modern FPS is piss easy. Prey is half way between the two and therefore inadequate, though still better than the modern norm.

User-made content? Naturally it's case by case, but I am unaware of any reputably good ones for Prey aside from customisable GUI, partly because no source code was released.

 

[Blaine]

http://store.steampowered.com/app/519860/DUSK/

You're welcome.

 

[agentorange]

I don't think System Shock 2 was all that more difficult than Prey. It's hard to quantify difficulty in an FPS in the first place since they are mostly player skill based. There's certainly less hand holding in SS2 as far as interface ques go, like all the objective popups that Prey has, but it's not as if the areas in SS2 were large enough that navigation became a challenge. Combat is basically the same in both; I died a lot early on in both when I was low on resources and skills, and gradually died less and less to the point where I was overpowered in in both games by the end. The same holds for any similar game like Deus Ex or System Shock 1. The only exception is the Thief games, where difficulty increased very consistently and fairly over the course of the game; but, Thief is a game where avoiding combat is stressed and it also has no leveling mechanics so the player character's abilities remain basically static throughout the game, the only thing that increases is the players own knowledge of the game systems.

As Blaine said, some FPS games that could be said to be the most difficult are difficult in poorly designed ways. One could make an FPS where every enemy has pinpoint accuracy with hitscanning weapons and have their HP bloated to hell, but is that challenging or just bad design? I have yet to play an FPS with leveling and rpg mechanics in the vein of SS2 or Deus Ex that offered a consistent challenge throughout the entire course of the game.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/519860/DUSK/

You're welcome.

What is this supposed to prove? This is just another off-the-mark "Retro" styled FPS that is nothing like the games it purports to emulate.

 

[Blaine]

It's not supposed to "prove" anything, and no, it really isn't like the others at all, and is more in the vein of Quake et al. than any of them managed to be, too. Even the retro visuals are far better executed than most, but there's a lot more to it than that.

Show me one other game remotely like it. I've had my eye on pretty much every indie FPS for the past ten years, and Dusk is the first one I've ever really given a shit about, aside from Devil Daggers, which is much simpler.

I'm just dropping it there in case someone who likes 1990s-style shooters is interested, since it came up. I played all of the classic shooters in the 1990s when you were still two or three years old, KIDDO. You can fuck right off.

 

[agentorange]

You clearly didn't pay much attention to them while playing them. And as usual you get so defensive that you have to bring up age when you aren't that old yourself and we are talking about games released in the mid to late 90s, hardly ancient history.

Quake did not rely on large, open arenas with enemies running towards you in a straight line, that's something that Serious Sam started and it's what all of these "retro" style fps games adopt because it is easier to do than crafting meticulously detailed levels (vertically oriented levels in the case of Quake) with thoughtful enemy placement. As for the visuals, Dusk is severely lacking in any texture detail, its color palette is all over the place, and the models look even more blocky than the Quake models, a game that, as you pointed out, was released in the 90s; the enemy designs are completely lacking in the sort of silhouetting and distinct morphology that the Quake enemies like Vores, Shamblers and Scrags stand out.

Maybe you should try replaying some of these 1990s-style shooters because your old dementia addled brain clearly forgot what the fuck made those games what they were.

As for an example of a game that does it better, go play the Ion Maiden demo. I'm not even as crazy about that game as some other people but it's certainly more faithful to those era specific games than Dusk.

 

[Latelistener]

Spoiler

 

[Morgoth]

Why is this shit in the Prey thread?

 

[fantadomat]

It's not supposed to "prove" anything, and no, it really isn't like the others at all, and is more in the vein of Quake et al. than any of them managed to be, too. Even the retro visuals are far better executed than most, but there's a lot more to it than that.

Show me one other game remotely like it. I've had my eye on pretty much every indie FPS for the past ten years, and Dusk is the first one I've ever really given a shit about, aside from Devil Daggers, which is much simpler.

I'm just dropping it there in case someone who likes 1990s-style shooters is interested, since it came up. I played all of the classic shooters in the 1990s when you were still two or three years old, KIDDO. You can fuck right off.

Shadow warrior was decent,also there is Ion Maiden in the making. I doubt that i will play a better fps than DOOM 2 in my life,after all those guys sold their souls to make such a game.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/562860/Ion_Maiden/

 

[Ash]

Recent posts regarding challenge: Again beside the point. Regardless of anything, Prey is TOO easy. Shock 2 end game may not have been as challenging as the start, but you weren't running around with 40 medkits, 100 food items, 50 suit repair kits, essentially limitless ammo and neuromods as long as you scavenge well. There wasn't unengaging relatively safe space walks (compare to Dead Space, which does zero-G far better. And overall challenge for that matter), no objective markers leading you around by the nose, no fountains giving full psi energy restoration, there weren't enemies that failed to adequately challenge late game: where is Prey's Psi Reaver, Cyborg Assassin, Security Robot, laser turret and Rumbler high-tier equivalents? Prey only scales up to mid-tier (midwifes, maint. bots, grenade hybrid). And said enemies are found in higher quantities in Shock 2 + respawning. Yeah OK there's the nightmare but as everyone has already said, disappointing and rare to see anyway.

Prey does a decent job up until about half way, then its gameplay just falls apart much worse than the likes of Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

 

[Blaine]

Shadow warrior was decent,also there is Ion Maiden in the making. I doubt that i will play a better fps than DOOM 2 in my life,after all those guys sold their souls to make such a game.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/562860/Ion_Maiden/

Yeah, Shadow Warrior was all right, come to think of it.

Prey does a decent job up until about half way, then its gameplay just falls apart much worse than the likes of Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

I'm not even halfway through the game yet, I don't think, which may explain why I don't feel as strongly as others do. Still, my collection of extra material blocks just keeps growing and growing....

The only troublesome thing I've run into are those splitting purple phantoms. I can't even one-hit kill them with a sneak attack recycler charge, and foaming them up only lasts but so long before the inevitable split. Creative fleeing, corner abuse, and shotgunning works well, but that just doesn't feel satisfying. I hear tell there's some psi power that allows you to temporarily disable enemy powers, which is probably what I'm missing.

 

[fantadomat]

Shadow warrior was decent,also there is Ion Maiden in the making. I doubt that i will play a better fps than DOOM 2 in my life,after all those guys sold their souls to make such a game.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/562860/Ion_Maiden/

Yeah, Shadow Warrior was all right, come to think of it.

Prey does a decent job up until about half way, then its gameplay just falls apart much worse than the likes of Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

I'm not even halfway through the game yet, I don't think, which may explain why I don't feel as strongly as others do. Still, my collection of extra material blocks just keeps growing and growing....

The only troublesome thing I've run into are those splitting purple phantoms. I can't even one-hit kill them with a sneak attack recycler charge, and foaming them up only lasts but so long before the inevitable split. Creative fleeing, corner abuse, and shotgunning works well, but that just doesn't feel satisfying. I hear tell there's some psi power that allows you to temporarily disable enemy powers, which is probably what I'm missing.

Holding down the wrench attack does a stun,it could be chained in a way that could kill most of the melee enemies without loosing health. It is the most useful weapon,after i found out about this magical ability,i never used any other weapon outside of the laser. Only enemies that could do you harm are the ones with a damage aura.

 

[Blaine]

Holding down the wrench attack does a stun,it could be chained in a way that could kill most of the melee enemies without loosing health. It is the most useful weapon,after i found out about this magical ability,i never used any other weapon outside of the laser. Only enemies that could do you harm are the ones with a damage aura.

Yeah, I've got the 50% wrench damage boost and I use the power attack often. That's part of the issue, though: The splitting purple phantoms also have damage auras.

It's not that I can't defeat them, it just doesn't feel right. If you see two bags of chips lying next to each other, shock the one you think is a mimic, and the run over and beat it with a wrench, that feels right. Fighting the purple phantoms currently feels like brute-forcing rather than anything natural or elegant.

Yeah, I know, I can sneak past them. But why would I, when I can dispose of them and save myself the hassle?

 

[Multidirectional]

Prey does a decent job up until about half way, then its gameplay just falls apart much worse than the likes of Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

Pretty sure that even on medium difficulty SS2 is more challenging than Prey on highest one.

 

[fantadomat]

Holding down the wrench attack does a stun,it could be chained in a way that could kill most of the melee enemies without loosing health. It is the most useful weapon,after i found out about this magical ability,i never used any other weapon outside of the laser. Only enemies that could do you harm are the ones with a damage aura.

Yeah, I've got the 50% wrench damage boost and I use the power attack often. That's part of the issue, though: The splitting purple phantoms also have damage auras.

It's not that I can't defeat them, it just doesn't feel right. If you see two bags of chips lying next to each other, shock the one you think is a mimic, and the run over and beat it with a wrench, that feels right. Fighting the purple phantoms currently feels like brute-forcing rather than anything natural or elegant.

Yeah, I know, I can sneak past them. But why would I, when I can dispose of them and save myself the hassle?

I remember then to be annoying,there is quite a few of them in the reactor area or something similar place. Stunning them and then gunning them with a upgraded pistol was a good tactic. You can always laser blow them away.

 

[Blaine]

...because it is easier to do than crafting meticulously detailed levels (vertically oriented levels in the case of Quake) with thoughtful enemy placement.

The irony of this faggot lecturing to me of all people about level design is fucking incredible. That's my #1 crusade. There's probably a novel's worth of me ranting in great detail about it buried in the archives. Example:

A proper (game) dungeon, in my opinion, has three qualities:

It must have a complex and challenging layout. I refer to this as "environmental challenge." Multiple floors/levels interconnected at various points, portions of some floors accessible only from certain sections of another floor (and optionally, individual levels/floors sharing various elevations as opposed to being completely flat), dead ends, branching forks and intersections, switchbacks, one-way exits, single exits that can lead to multiple destinations, pitfalls and trap doors, portcullises or portholes allowing vision but not immediate passage, secret doors, ladders, teleporters, et cetera.

It must also have rewarding and challenging interaction. I refer to this as "not being designed for retards because they 'just want to relax after work'." Cryptic messages and clues, various kinds of environmental or self-contained puzzles, needful key items to uncover, levers to pull, hidden buttons to push, pressure plates, traps to avoid (and maybe disarm), hard-to-spot reward items or equipment, and observational mysteries (i.e., observe some creature or character's behavior to figure something out; just for example, following a mouse back to a crack in the wall).

Finally, interesting monsters or creatures with varied traits, behaviors, dialogue if applicable, and needful loot implemented in the dungeon via thoughtful encounter design can't hurt.

Not every classic shooter had this. In fact, very few actually did.

Your opinion is garbage, you're garbage, and you're one of those pieces of shit who name-drop games you never played for kool kredits with your fellow fuckbrains, who also don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Never speak to me or my son or my son's son or my son's son's son ever again.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Prey does a decent job up until about half way, then its gameplay just falls apart much worse than the likes of Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

Pretty sure that even on medium difficulty SS2 is more challenging than Prey on highest one.

Pretty sure you're wrong. Having recently completed both of these on "Hard" in the past month, I can say I found them to be of roughly even challenge. SS2 does indeed maintain a higher level of challenge past the midpoint than Prey, but it's not particularly extreme.

 

[RoSoDude]

Prey does a decent job up until about half way, then its gameplay just falls apart much worse than the likes of Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

Pretty sure that even on medium difficulty SS2 is more challenging than Prey on highest one.

Pretty sure you're wrong. Having recently completed both of these on "Hard" in the past month, I can say I found them to be of roughly even challenge. SS2 does indeed maintain a higher level of challenge past the midpoint than Prey, but it's not particularly extreme.

If we're just throwing anecdotes around, I'm pretty sure you're wrong right back. Within the last year I completed SS2 on Impossible and Prey on Nightmare, and SS2 required much more intelligence, planning, and moment-to-moment skill than Prey.

What your argument misses by only including one data point for each game is that SS2 (and, since they were recently mentioned, Doom/Quake/Half Life etc.) had difficulty settings which meaningfully modulated the amount of challenge. Where Prey only includes a basic damage dealt/received modifier which affects almost nothing due to its basic combat design, SS2's difficulty settings affect loot tables, upgrade/replicator costs, player/enemy stats, and so on. The balance isn't perfect, but there was meticulous effort spent to assure that there was a wide degree of challenge available to a variety of player skill levels, where every bullet, hypo, and cybernetic module counts. I urge you to review existing posts in this thread from myself (1 2 3) and others like Ash and Durandal on how Prey's difficulty settings utterly fail in this regard.

SS2 on Hard is probably on about the same level as Prey on Nightmare, because SS2 is not actually that difficult on Hard and because Prey, whose difficulty settings barely make a difference, is already tuned to be a bit tougher than your average AAA pseudo-game. But you're comparing one point on a broad spectrum of difficulty in SS2 to a narrow band in Prey that happens to lie fairly close to that point.

EDIT: I just want to also highlight how odd it is that people talk about how overpowered you are at the end of SS2 while simultaneously complaining about the Rickenbacker and the Body of the Many. It's almost like they're considered separately in people's minds. Yes, those levels are a departure from the earlier style of level design, but in a way that ramps up the challenge, primarily via tough combat encounters, in accord with your accrued abilities and resources. They're not perfect, but I gather that the intention was for your carefully accumulated hypo and ammo stashes to start to actually shrink in the home stretch.