Development Info Project Eternity Kickstarter Update #41: Dwarves and Doors (and a complete lack of proofreading)

[Roguey]

Well you also said Larian was bankrupt so...

I never said they were bankrupt.

What if there is a door bash skill that's strength based and a lock pick skill that's dex based?

He doesn't like redundant options either. Fighters will be able to pick locks themselves.

Breaking a lock/chest can be made a more cumbersome solution when compared to lockpicking. Bashing a door might attract enemies and bashing a chest open might break the contents. Like wise, bashing may set traps off.

He doesn't care about any of that.
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/241640872918126596
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/348227261540887760

 

[FeelTheRads]

Bashing or lack thereof are unconfirmed. Asking Josh Sawyer.

I can tell you right now there won't be any door or lock bashing because Josh doesn't like it when another mechanic makes a skill you invest in irrelevant.

Irrelevant? Maybe you don't have anyone with a lockpick skill? But oh my god, what if you do? The horror of having overlapping skills! DOES NOT COMPUTE EVERYTHING MUST BE THE SAME TRUE BALANCE MUST BE ACHIEVED.

Sawyer confirmed for retard, if there was still any doubt.

 

[Jaesun]

Breaking a lock/chest can be made a more cumbersome solution when compared to lockpicking. Bashing a door might attract enemies and bashing a chest open might break the contents. Like wise, bashing may set traps off.

Yeah, the DM's I played with ALWAYS made sure of this.

 

[Infinitron]

He doesn't care about any of that.
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/241640872918126596
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/348227261540887760

He is talking about New Vegas here, isn't he? Or some other single-character game.

In a party-based game with six characters in the party, you can be pretty sure that the player IS going to get those chests/doors open, one way or another. Limiting it to characters with lockpicking skills just isn't that strong a limitation in the first place.

(In fact, if you want to go Full Gamist, there arguably shouldn't be any locked chests/doors at all because they're such a trivial barrier.)

 

[FeelTheRads]

This is redundancy right there.

What else did you expect Sawyer's grand idea to turn into? Boring shit where everything is the same, but hey, he will be able claim that a fighter is just as strong as a mage hurr durr

there arguably shouldn't even be any locked chests/doors at all because they're such a trivial barrier.

You should be able to teleport the chests back into town, imo.

 

[Infinitron]

Sawyer confirmed for retard, if there was still any doubt.

This is just Roguey's speculation.

Of course, I don't really understand the butthurt here. In 3E D&D, Fighters could take Open Lock as a cross-class skill.

 

[tuluse]

He doesn't care about any of that.
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/241640872918126596
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/348227261540887760

He could make the loot destruction deterministic, isn't that his favorite thing to do?

 

[Roguey]

I am 100% confident I'm right about this. This is part of his design philosophy.

Irrelevant? Maybe you don't have anyone with a lockpick skill?

Then you don't open locks. Deal with it.

He is talking about New Vegas here, isn't he? Or some other single-character game.

In a party-based game with six characters in the party, you can be pretty sure that the player IS going to get those chests/doors open, one way or another. Limiting it to characters with lockpicking skills just isn't that strong a limitation in the first place.

(In fact, if you want to go Full Gamist, there arguably shouldn't be any locked chests/doors at all because they're such a trivial barrier.)

Investing points in opening locks means you're not investing them elsewhere. Plus there will be a resource attached http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/379375809888013199

Note: No bashing mentioned at all. Because he hates it.

 

[Infinitron]

Ah yes, the lockpicking resource, I forgot about that. Yeah, you're probably right that there will be no bashing.

 

[tuluse]

Soft threshold with resource use is probably the best way to do lock picking I've seen thus far, but I wish someone would make it more involved and fun.

 

[Infinitron]

make it more involved and fun.

No minigames!

 

[FeelTheRads]

Then you don't open locks. Deal with it.

Well, mages shouldn't get machine gun spells then. If you don't have any fighters with you, you don't get to kill stuff at low levels. Deal with it.

 

[tuluse]

No minigames!

Is combat in an RPG a minigame? What about dialog trees?

 

[Infinitron]

Which in a well designed game would not help you at *all* unless you got seriously lucky. Not to mention that fighter skills are shit in these games, to be worth investing in anything other that mis-implemented tumble and Spellcraft. Even Intimidate was useless since typically it was a CHR skill which is a dump stat for fighters.

Well, you could also just multiclass as a thief for a few levels and get a strong lockpicking skill that way.

PE won't have multiclassing - instead the core classes will just be more flexible.

 

[Delterius]

Breaking a lock/chest can be made a more cumbersome solution when compared to lockpicking. Bashing a door might attract enemies and bashing a chest open might break the contents. Like wise, bashing may set traps off.

He doesn't care about any of that.
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/241640872918126596
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/348227261540887760

Got any quotes that fill every suggestion, or are you assuming that by 'every skill being useful' means 'everything that the player does must be functional at all times'?

Because so far, the whole set of suggestions actually doesn't really contradict what he says. Allowing bash as a option and making it a bad idea most of the time is a good way to convey lockpick's importance.

 

[tuluse]

He's specifically said certain classes and builds will be more or less useful at certain times and some skills will have fewer, but bigger uses.

 

[Roguey]

Then you don't open locks. Deal with it.

Well, mages shouldn't get machine gun spells then. If you don't have any fighters with you, you don't get to kill stuff at low levels. Deal with it.

There is no "kill person" skill.

 

[Roguey]

Breaking a lock/chest can be made a more cumbersome solution when compared to lockpicking. Bashing a door might attract enemies and bashing a chest open might break the contents. Like wise, bashing may set traps off.

He doesn't care about any of that.
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/241640872918126596
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/348227261540887760

Got any quotes that fill every suggestion, or are you assuming that by 'every skill being useful' means 'everything that the player does must be functional at all times'?

Because so far, the whole set of suggestions actually doesn't really contradict what he says. Allowing bash as a option and making it a bad idea most of the time is a good way to convey lockpick's importance.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63308-update-41-dd-dwarves-and-doors/?view=findpost&p=1307021

Rogues have bonuses to opening locks, but other classes can take that skill as well. We won't include spells or abilities that make invested skills obsolete.

Open and shut.

 

[Delterius]

Breaking a lock/chest can be made a more cumbersome solution when compared to lockpicking. Bashing a door might attract enemies and bashing a chest open might break the contents. Like wise, bashing may set traps off.

He doesn't care about any of that.
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/241640872918126596
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/348227261540887760

Got any quotes that fill every suggestion, or are you assuming that by 'every skill being useful' means 'everything that the player does must be functional at all times'?

Because so far, the whole set of suggestions actually doesn't really contradict what he says. Allowing bash as a option and making it a bad idea most of the time is a good way to convey lockpick's importance.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63308-update-41-dd-dwarves-and-doors/?view=findpost&p=1307021

Rogues have bonuses to opening locks, but other classes can take that skill as well. We won't include spells or abilities that make invested skills obsolete.

Open and shut.

That doesn't contradict anything I said.

 

[Irenaeus]

No bashing mentioned at all. Because he hates it.

 

[Roguey]

"Any solution that involves randomly destroying loot is pointless if a) loot isn't involved (e.g. a door) b) you can reload. It's an awful lot of mental contortion to fulfill the desire to just spend points on weapon skills and not on utility skills."

 

[Infinitron]

Maybe PE needs a "Brute Force" skill like Wasteland 2.

 

[Roguey]

"Any solution that involves randomly destroying loot is pointless if a) loot isn't involved (e.g. a door) b) you can reload. It's an awful lot of mental contortion to fulfill the desire to just spend points on weapon skills and not on utility skills."

Do you even think when you post stuff like this?

First you make Rogue characters redundant by taking away their skill mastery.

Then you claim that since We have made the skills available to everyone, it is pointless to include bashing.

Do you even realize that this is circular thinking?

Rogues aren't redundant though. They get a one-time bonus to their class skills, which includes lockpicking. Fighters will always fall short and likely have to use more lockpicks.

They also have class specific combat abilities that no one else can have.

 

[Roguey]

uh huh.

One time bonus. let me guess, +2 to lockpicks and disable traps, which will become useless after level 5 since the typical ranks in these skills will be ~10.

I don't see why it'd be useless. If a fighter and rogue invest an equal amount of points into lockpicking, the rogue will always be x-points higher.

And yeah, 'unique' combat abilities You mean higher DPS and/or sneak attacks.

Escape - The rogue may hop a short distance away and all hostiles lose him or her as a direct target for 3 seconds. After the 3 seconds are up, enemies can target the rogue normally.
Reversal - Reversal prepares the rogue for the next melee attack against him or her. When it hits, the rogue takes reduced damage and instantly rolls to the opposite side of the target and executes a powerful melee attack. This will even allow rogues to move past enemies that are fully blocking a path.

Among other things you'll be able to buy as you level up.

 

[Roguey]

This is simply because you don't understand basic mathematics. +x is only good as long as x/Ranks is larger or equal to 0.5. As soon as Ranks go above X, its value/utility starts to become less and less. DnD prevented that (although I don't like vertical progression so much) by having Rogues given a FEAT called Trapfinding which was special and allowed them to do what other classes could not; disable traps above DC 20.

That makes no sense. The closer you are to the lockpicking threshold, the fewer lockpicks you'll have to use. Rogues will always be closer than any other class (presumably; it might be the class skill of another, who knows?).

Regardless this isn't a "You have to take a rogue with you to unlock chests and disable traps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" game. If I'm right about the remaining two companions, there won't even be a rogue companion.