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Information Project Eternity Kickstarter Update #42: Chris Avellone's Arcanum Let's Play Begins

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
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A city full of gangsters mimicking mafia like structures while wearing fedora hats, said city producing nothing than drugs/entertaiment/gambling and living of random visitors from cities hundreds of miles away where they have to traverse through very dangerous wasteland just to get probably stabbed in the back by some random junkie.

Makes total sense and fits to the rest of FO2s retardations.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
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Messages
5,775
Yeah, city providing drugs, gambling and porn does not make sense in Fallout, obviously:lol: Especially considering it's connections with other of the game's important towns and fractions that are explicitly shown in lore, dialogue and even experienced through quests. Now tell me how Shady Sands or Junktown, who are just random crpg towns completely discconted from the game world in any meaningful way and are only there to provide some quests, make more sense.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
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Yeah, city providing drugs, gambling and porn does not make sense in Fallout, obviously:lol: Especially considering it's connections with other of the game's important towns and fractions that are explicitly shown in lore, dialogue and even experienced through quests. Now tell me how Shady Sands or Junktown, who are just random crpg towns completely discconted from the game world in any meaningful way and are only there to provide some quests, make more sense.


It makes so much sense that there is a city providing this entertaiment in the middle of the desert, right? Random NCR citizen "Hey Monica, I am out with my bros tonight, we want to grab some beer and get some gambling" "Oh, sure, just be sure to be back till next month, don't get yourself eaten by a deathclaw on the few hundred miles to Reno!". :roll: "Hey Monica, I know times are rough, we have an outhouse with a whole in the roof as our home and didn't eat anything for a week, but let me take those last caps we have and travel the few hundred miles to Reno to watch some porn" "Sure Honey :)"

People don't leave their safe havens for such a retarded thing. It would make much more sense for smaller independent gambling centres in the respective cities, just like, you know, Junktown had, instead of Rollercoaster-Ride cities like FO2 was full of them.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
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Good job on noticing how New Reno is placed in the F2's world as a town that actually produces something of value and has connections with other places and that it allows you to actually influence those connections. I guess it makes a definition of a roller coaster town, as opposed to places that are there just to grab 2-3 quests and fuck off. I could also point out that F2 takes place many years later and it is, yet again, clearly shown and suggested in the game how the world's shape improved including logistics, trading etc. but there's no point to it, really. People will still want to act prestigious over how F1 was a serious monocled game while F2 is all stupid lulz. Exactly the same story as with people who seem to actually believe that NV is da bomb while F3 was dumb popamole.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
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So please enlighten me, what worthwile things helping people to survive does it produce? Do you really think travelling hundreds of miles through the desert to watch some porn is a-ok and totally logical?
 

Darth Roxor

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So please enlighten me, what worthwile things helping people to survive does it produce? Do you really think travelling hundreds of miles through the desert to watch some porn is a-ok and totally logical?

Shittons of jet that seems to be used by just about every druggie, punk, highwayman and criminal in the world?
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
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Messages
5,775
Uh, it produces porn for trading. It produces the most addictive and "successful" drug. It produces booze. It trades with Enclave. It influences Redding, another important town in the region. It is an important factor in the VC-NCR power struggle. And yes, considering that logistics and communications improved travelling to a casino makes sense for some people. And you can actually experience and get quests connected to most of the above things.

Now please, compare that to any town in Fallout.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
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So please enlighten me, what worthwile things helping people to survive does it produce? Do you really think travelling hundreds of miles through the desert to watch some porn is a-ok and totally logical?

Shittons of jet that seems to be used by just about every druggie, punk, highwayman and criminal in the world?

K'l you covered the drug business then, which is ruled by one family of the 4 available. What about the rest of the worthwile things the town "produces"? Some Fedora hat factories they opened up?
 

Black_Willow

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76d31508_c851d40e_Derail_1.jpeg

Dear moderators, this is a thread where we marvel laugh our asses off watching MCA playing Arcanum. Please move this FO1 vs FO2 discussion into another thread.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
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Uh, it produces porn for trading. It produces the most addictive and "successful" drug. It produces booze. It trades with Enclave. It influences Redding, another important town in the region. It is an important factor in the VC-NCR power struggle. And yes, considering that logistics and communications improved travelling to a casino makes sense for some people. And you can actually experience and get quests connected to most of the above things.

Now please, compare that to any town in Fallout.


Booze gets produced everywhere by the people, lots of moonshiners all around the map. "Porn for trading" - please tell me on what the people actually watch the "porn" ? Have you seen any of these projectors they have in Reno in a different town? "It trades with the Enclave" - what the fuck has this to do with anything?

In the end, it is about plausability. And the town just isn't plausible, not in this timeframe of the game. The gameworld is not stabilized and "safe" enough yet that such a city could prosper no matter how long you ride on your "improved travelling" stuff. The wasteland is still fucking dangerous and it makes no sense for the average joe to do the long trip to Reno when they are more busy with actually trying to survive.

Sure, the actual amount of quests and reactivity was very well done in Reno. I didn't argue that. Yes, there could have been more content in some of the towns in FO1. True. But I rather take a smaller town where the background is atleast plausible and doesnt make me facepalm all the time, thank you very much.
 

Darth Roxor

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K'l you covered the drug business then, which is ruled by one family of the 4 available. What about the rest of the worthwile things the town "produces"? Some Fedora hat factories they opened up?

The profits from jet production are so fucking massive that everything else it produces can be regarded as luxury goods for people who are better off than the average Den junkie. Not to mention there's also the local populace - New Reno is actually a pretty damn big city.

The wasteland is still fucking dangerous and it makes no sense for the average joe to do the long trip to Reno when they are more busy with actually trying to survive.

That going through the wasteland is dangerous, sure.

But answer me this: Who is actually "busy trying to survive" in FO2? The dust has very much settled in its time and most of the communities are pretty stable, some even downright prosperous (NCR, Vault City).
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
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What sort of plausible background do Fallout towns have when compared to a place that trades with other settlements, provides one of the most desired resources in the wasteland (drugs, booze, weapons), is a player in the games played between game factions and lets you experience all this through goddamn gameplay?:lol: Shady Sands which is a few red necks somehow sitting on top of aggressive and armed raiders? Junktown which has MacGyver, mobster and a doctor making canned goods from people? The only place that attempts at being actually connected to the gameworld in any meaningful way is The Hub (and also the Evil-Spawns-Here dens obviously), but still it's all just talk "Oh hey, here is the trading centre of the wasteland now do a few assorted quests and get lost".
 

Lord Andre

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Towns and cities in CRPGs have always been abstractions of the real thing. The question "Where do these people get food ?" cannot be answered in any CRPG unless you understand that it's not a 1 to 1 simulation of a city but a placeholder for the concept of a city.

As for F1 vs F2, it's the same issue as with G1 vs G2. The second installment brings a lot of improvements but it does feel a bit bloated content-wise.

And let's not forget nostalgia. It's a hell of a drug.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Man, between this and watching Adam Brennek play IWD 2...

...Do game developers even know how to play games? I feel horrible for asking that question, but holy shit.

I now demand to watch an LP of Saywer play BG 2 just to see how his style is. I'm curious if his balance fetish comes from trying to gnome-bard everything and dying.
Josh said:
when BG first came out i took xan instead of dynaheir for a while because i was going to do that siren area and i figured xan's elven + enchanter bonuses vs. sleep and charm would make it a walk in the park. lol joke's on me none of the specialist save bonuses or racial bonuses outside of ability score mods were implemented. owned.
jokes on you, you played that and said "Wow, this is a bad game with a lot of features which actually do nothing, I want to make games just like it for the rest of my career"
actually i said, "i would have implemented all of the racial and specialist bonuses!!!" and then ~ 2 yrs later i worked on icewind dale and did.
Josh said:
*~ Darklands Starting Tips 'n Trickz ~*
Darklands Fan Site - http://www.darklands.net/

I won't focus on metagamey stuff like making 80 year-old alchemists for their sweet potion stashes and then ditching them at the Gasthaus in the first 5 minutes. I'll just focus on a "good" party and normal game flow.

Party Composition


Your party should probably consist of people between 30 and 40 years old (maybe 35-45 if you want to push certain skills). This produces a good range of skills without suffering excessive END and STR degradation. You will likely want two folks who are heavier fighters, then someone with a high Virtue(!!!)/Heal(!!!)/Religion ("cleric") and someone else with a high Alchemy/Speak Latin/Speak Common. If you want to make a thiefy- or rangery-type character, you can stack up one of your front-line dudes on Woodwise, Streetwise, Artifice, and related skills, but it isn't vital.

Virtue and Heal are skills that are relatively hard to raise and very important. Heal, specifically, only increases benefit in coarsely granular chunks. If your dudes only regain 1 STR a day, your Heal sucks and the game will be very hard. Get your Heal high enough to heal 2 STR a day, if not 3 (though that may only be possible with a 45 year-old character).

Stats


STR and END are important for EVERYONE. They are obviously most important for front line fighters, but practically speaking, everyone winds up in melee, so don't skimp on the STR/END for a gimmick mystic of affective piety build. STR and END should also be fairly close to each other. With armor on, END will typically get chewed up much more quickly than STR, but if max STR is significantly lower than END, guys will die instead of being knocked out (this is bad).

Equipment


Use gear that your characters are best at using! Check your weapon skills and equip accordingly. Early on, javelins can be a good thing for (especially) alchemist characters to use. It will raise your Throwing skill, which will become important on that distant day when you have more than two potion bottles rattling around in your pouches. Darklands has a learn-by-doing system that slows naturally with skill gain, so even characters who are horribly incompetent quickly become "okay" with a weapon if they stick with it. Early on, everyone/things' armor is terrible, so you can practically use whatever weapon you're skilled with that does good damage. You will eventually want characters who are good with hammers or polearms to deal with heavily armored enemies (e.g. Raubritters, Templars, Gargoyles). Dress everyone in the heaviest armor you can afford. (Fuck) traditional class roles. Alchemists in Nürnberg plate ASAP.

Doin' Thangs


What do you do in Darklands? Well, it's an open world, but extraordinarily punishing to the unwary. Here's the basics: First you get the thieves, then you get the Rep, then you get the missions. Stay in your opening town for a while. Every night, go to the "Gabled roofs of the crafts district". Keep going in and out of this area until you encounter thieves. Beat the hell out of them over and over and over again. As long as you don't do dumb (shit) like try to break into businesses or skulk around the cathedrals, you shouldn't encounter the city watch (breaking curfew is bad). During the day, go back to the inn. Have your characters Regain Strength (this is why the Heal skill is very important) and have anyone who is not injured Earn Money. Every once in a while, sleep in the wooded area inside the city for a night or two to avoid having your rep drop by staying at the inn excessively long.

Sweet Medici Cash


When you have slaughtered enough thieves, your local Reputation will start creeping into the teens. This is good. Since you are unloading a shitload of gear from this endless army of thieves, you will be visiting merchants all the time. Whenever you go to the Markt, visit every merchant, even if you don't need to. Fuggers, Medici -- everyone. Eventually, when you leave a merchant's shop, you will get a business proposition. Accept it, whatever the hell it is. Remember to write (shit) down. This game was made in 1992, for Christ's sake. These missions vary, but usually involve one of the following things: getting a Tarnhelm, getting an old book, or killing a Raubritter (robber knight). Sometimes, these missions will send you way, way, way across the Holy Roman Empire. Even if you can't do them immediately, keep them in a list to do later. Of the three, Raubritters are the most likely to be proximal to your current city. They are also, by far, the most immediately dangerous to undertake. When you get your first Raubritter mission, do not go on it immediately. You may try the others if the destination is not hundreds of miles away.

Raubritter Scams


So, when do you pursue your first Raubritter? Well, here's a good strategy. Once a city's merchants have told you to pursue a Raubritter, they will give you a location. Don't go there, but go to other cities near the Raubritter's castle. Do the same thief-killing, Rep-building activities in these cities that you did in your first city. Eventually, you will gain bounties on the same Raubritter from up to three cities. As these bounties can often be many Florins, this is extremely lucrative. By the time your characters are universally rolling with 25q+ gear, scale armor, two upgrades of weapons, and at least four Essence of Grace potions, you can probably safely pursue a Raubritter. I won't tell you how to defeat a Raubritter, as there are many ways, and it is enjoyable to figure them all out. When you defeat one, you will get some nice armor and weapons (usually), and can go back to all of your clients to collect sweet, sweet Florins.

Killing a Raubritter is a gateway to killing more Raubritter, which is also a gateway to exploring more of the world and completing those obnoxious early "get a Tarnhelm" quests that directed you from Ulm to Hamburg.

Where's the Story, Bru?


When you decide that you want to follow "the story" in Darklands, there are a lot of places to begin. It all starts with visiting tiny villages. Do this until you find one that is full of Satanists. Defeat them and they will say something like, "We will have our revenge <direction> of <city_name> on <next_solstice_equinox_day>." Write this (shit) down this game was made in 1992. Did you already forget?! Go to that place at that time. There is no leeway, so don't think you can show up a day late and still check it out. If you do, you will have to repeat the earlier steps. When you get there at the right time, you will see a witches' sabbath. These own bones. "Deal with" them and you will be pointed toward the next steps (or receive a dream that does -- I can't remember. Just keep following the leads and you will go on a grand adventure.

Other Things to Remember


Your party leader always speaks for you, so set your high Speak Common or Speak Latin character as the party leader before chatting with people when that stuff matters (e.g. cathedrals, universities). Get as many saints as possible for your high Virtue character. These are super important, especially as the game goes on. If you have a second character with moderately high Virtue, there are plenty of low-Virtue saints you can call on. Just check the required Virtue before learning their mysteries. Virtue can be raised during the game, but very slowly compared to other skills. Write down where you find various alchemical ingredients or just use an online guide. Alchemy is really important in the long game. If you don't put effort into tracking down the ingredients, it's just a headache.
I think he'd do just fine.
 

St. Toxic

Arcane
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,098
Location
Yemen / India
New Reno was fine and made perfect sense in the setting. San Fran, the Enclave, Tribals and the GECK, however, were pretty shit and made little sense in the setting.
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,624
More seriously, new Reno is one of the ebst things about FO series. It has some of the ebst role-playing ever.

Yeah, being able to work for all four rival gangs at the same time was certainly the "ebst role-playing ever."
 

MF

The Boar Studio
Patron
Developer
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Dec 8, 2002
Messages
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Location
Amsterdam
Seems that despite your obvious mental prowess you somehow missed the fact that Fallout 2 is a much bigger game, proportions and all that..

How does Fallout 2 being a bigger game justify its flaws?

Why don't we all pack our shit, get on a rocket ship and move off to Jupiter? It's a bigger planet, after all.
 

Moribund

A droglike
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
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Tied to the mast
Did Josh really insult Darklands just now? You know I can be there in about an hour.

You can do stuff in Darklands, and that's bad because doing things is not a story. Nevermind the story and exploration in DL is 50 times better than BG series and 1000 times better than any shitty Obsidian game ever made. What a fucking dunce.
 

Ignatius Reilly

Scholar
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Detroit
I could care less about funny smart whatever, (he's doing fine really) but I think he has something offer with giving his perspective as a game designer, and look forward to more of that. It's kind of like Jordan coming over and watching the NBA with you.
 

BobtheTree

Savant
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
389
People, it's clear that Obsidian is trying to work out all the technical problems plaguing this advanced problem of recording old video games in such a way that you can actually see what the hell is going on.

I expect a month or two before they finally work out the kinks. :troll:
 

EG

Nullified
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
4,264
Well the stretch goal only stated MCA would PLAY Arcanum. Not that he had to finish it.

:troll:

Glad I didn't contribute to this project, now. :cry:
 

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