Decline PS4 wins the console war against XboxONE, yet it is a hollow victory as Consolesdämmerung is upon us

[Zed]

E3 happens during summer, right? Will be interesting to see what Microsoft reveals up 'til then.
D3 for Xbox 720, perhaps.
Ubi and Acti revealing some "exclusive content".

2. Fuck I need a lot of RAM in my new PC this Fall.

RAM is cheap as shit.
16gb corsairs doesn't cost anything.

 

[Ebonsword]

How the hell could you guys actually watch that whole thing?

I turned it off after about five minutes because I couldn't stand all the marketing speak.

 

[K9doggie]

My gaming PC is still more powerful than PS4 and Xbox Next. AND backwards compatible.

 

[Dexter]

My gaming PC is still more powerful than PS4 and Xbox Next. AND backwards compatible.

Also, saving for posterity:
http://archive.foolz.us/v/thread/177351938/
http://archive.foolz.us/v/thread/177341751/
http://archive.foolz.us/v/thread/177351118/

 

[evdk]

Looks like my gaming on laptop games are over. Time to build a new PC.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Decent comfy looking controller, solid hardware and an x86 chip, that's the real shit that mattered here. No price though, that'll be for e3 which is on life-support these days.

Actually it will be later, they announce these details at the eleventh hour to keep a strategic advantage over the competition.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Gamers don't want backwards compatibility, but they sure do want that Facebook integration, amirite? Cliffy B can go climb a wall of dicks.

 

[DalekFlay]

RAM is cheap as shit.
16gb corsairs doesn't cost anything.

Yeah but DDR5 with VRAM architecture? That's what I am worried about. Ports to PC for a long time were CPU limited when the 360 came out because that was where they focused last time. If memory is the new focus we might be memory limited until the PC retail stuff catches up.

I'm a layman though, so if someone wants to tell me DDR3 isn't much different or DDR5 is coming next month for the same price then I'll shut up.

 

[sea]

How the hell could you guys actually watch that whole thing?

I turned it off after about five minutes because I couldn't stand all the marketing speak.

You'd be surprised what sort of insane shit you can subject yourself to while practicing guitar. It's like overhearing music while you're in a shopping mall - it's there and you notice it, but your attention is focused elsewhere, so you can tolerate even the most horrible stuff ever.

Also, 8 GB of memory means nothing, really. So few games use more than 2 GB of memory on PC these days. Yeah it does mean now consoles can use more and better textures, but I struggle to think of a game that could actually use 8 GB of memory, that either isn't so graphically advanced as to be completely unfeasible to actually create, or simply horrendously optimized. More likely what it means is a more bloated operating system that can do more while your game is running, instead of super-advanced games that actually use all that storage. And we all know that 2 years from now every PC will have 16 GB of memory bare minimum and consoles will just hit a brick wall again.

Actually it will be later, they announce these details at the eleventh hour to keep a strategic advantage over the competition.

Oh, good, it's nice to see Sony are so confident in their platform that they purposely withhold details about it from the people who keep them in business in the first place.

Fun fact: Serious Sam 3: BFE is the most fun first-person shooter I have played in years and leaves every single pathetic, slow, boring, popamole, half-cutscene console shooter in the dust. And it still looks better than any PS4 game.

 

[Ebonsword]

After checking some summaries of the event, all I can say is that, if Deep Down is basically Dragon's Dogma 2 and is a launch title, I may have to buy a PS4 on day one...

 

[Average Manatee]

RAM is cheap as shit.
16gb corsairs doesn't cost anything.

Yeah but DDR5 with VRAM architecture? That's what I am worried about. Ports to PC for a long time were CPU limited when the 360 came out because that was where they focused last time. If memory is the new focus we might be memory limited until the PC retail stuff catches up.

Your video card already uses DDR5. Your CPU... well, DDR5 is only twice as fast as DDR3, and I've known of exactly zero instances in which the various speeds of DDR3 memory had any measurable impact on performance in games, so going even higher probably won't help much on the CPU side.

Ports to PC were only CPU limited for the fools who bought into the "more than 2 cores will never be used for games", "buy a shitty CPU and the best video card you can, lolz" stuff, even though quad cores weren't much more expensive. Then ports from the Xbox, a tri-core machine, gasp, struggled unless you had a tri/quad core.

 

[deuxhero]

After watching the event, I regret having to take an aspirin before the show began so I couldn't get any enjoyment from drinking games.

Killzone was hilarious. At first it was a Half-Life style not a cutscene that looked moderately good, then there is an explosion and literally EVERYTHING turns orange with a hint of blue with chest high walls everywhere.

Infamous Second Son was also funny because the promoter talked about fear of authority when the first half of the event was mostly about how the PS4 is always watching you.

Drive team was OK, nothing exceptionall good or stupid.

Watch Dogs is multiplat. I think I heard the 911 caller say something about a guy shooting when no one actually fired a shot yet (quality!)

Square's tech demo is apparently not even new.

The Diablo 3 port to PS3 and PS4 you knew were coming

Destiny confirrmed for PS4.

Some new crap game by Braid's creator confirmed for timed exclusive.

No price given or unit shown.

 

[Dexter]

Also, 8 GB of memory means nothing, really. So few games use more than 2 GB of memory on PC these days. Yeah it does mean now consoles can use more and better textures, but I struggle to think of a game that could actually use 8 GB of memory, that either isn't so graphically advanced as to be completely unfeasible to actually create, or simply horrendously optimized. More likely what it means is a more bloated operating system that can do more while your game is running, instead of super-advanced games that actually use all that storage. And we all know that 2 years from now every PC will have 16 GB of memory bare minimum and consoles will just hit a brick wall again.

8GB from Sony too (instead of just 4GB) is probably the best news that came out of today. ALL games have been limited to 512MB (or even 256MB for PlayStation 3, since that isn't shared) and you can see that in their very design. Not only "textures", but the AAA corridor-shooters (size of levels), limited animations and limitations to AI, loads of loading screens and streaming from disk, amount of objects on screen (including enemies), even stuff like amount of grass or trees.

Again, for instance a lot of changes in regards to this were due to memory limitations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcKLjgWl7tM
This is good news.

Yeah but DDR5 with VRAM architecture? That's what I am worried about. Ports to PC for a long time were CPU limited when the 360 came out because that was where they focused last time. If memory is the new focus we might be memory limited until the PC retail stuff catches up.

I'm a layman though, so if someone wants to tell me DDR3 isn't much different or DDR5 is coming next month for the same price then I'll shut up.

The speed isn't really all that important to PC main systems RAM, or they would have changed it a while ago.
Graphics cards already have large amounts of VRAM, 2GB is about standard nowadays, NVIDIAs new GTX Titan has 6GB of dedicated GDDR5 RAM all by itself for graphics processing: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6760/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-1
The systems RAM is mainly used for other tasks.

 

[DalekFlay]

Your video card already uses DDR5. Your CPU... well, DDR5 is only twice as fast as DDR3, and I've known of exactly zero instances in which the various speeds of DDR3 memory had any measurable impact on performance in games, so going even higher probably won't help much on the CPU side.

Okay, good stuff thanks. Sounds like the important part is matching size then, so I'll aim for 12 on my new PC along with the VRAM.

 

[deuxhero]

Oh, one thing that might interest the Codex is that they mentioned their streaming tech will let you play PS3 games on "any system", giving a phone as an example

Assuming this works well (and it won't most likely), you might be able to play Valkyria Chronicles, Atelier and Demon's Souls on your PC.

 

[Average Manatee]

8 GB of memory definitely means nothing. More than 256 MB means a fuck ton. To quote myself:

Looking forward to those 8 GBs of memory going towards adding levitation back into the next TES game.

Keep in mind that low console memory, leading to consoles not being able to load cities and the open world at the same time, leading to cities to become isolated worlds, leading to levitation being taken out because it breaks this dichotomy, should provide enough evidence of exactly how console development directly dumbs down games.

 

[Tehdagah]

lel

 

[sea]

8GB from Sony too (instead of just 4GB) is probably the best news that came out of today. ALL games have been limited to 512MB (or even 256MB for PlayStation 3, since that isn't shared) and you can see that in their very design. Not only "textures", but the AAA corridor-shooters (size of levels), limited animations and limitations to AI, amount of objects on screen (including enemies), even stuff like amount of grass or trees.

Oh, it's good news. What I am saying is that 8 GB is still far from impressive, and all it means is that instead of a memory bottleneck, now we will end up with a GPU/CPU bottleneck instead. As I said, 8 GB is more than enough for current games, but limited memory is hardly the only reason modern games lack complex mechanics. There is nothing mechanically that this new hardware truly enables. All it allows you to do is run the same shit but have fewer load screens and less disc-streaming. 4 GB, 8 GB, 16 GB, it doesn't really matter because no game is going to use that much any time soon.

Instead of new experiences all we are getting is the same old shitty shooters in confined, linear corridors, just with bigger skyboxes, because modern game design itself has internalized and normalized all these technological constraints (gamepads instead of mice, lack of memory, limited field of view, etc.) for the sake both of hardware and for mass audience appeal.

30,000 polygons? Fucking incredible, I'm pretty sure the soldiers in Crysis had 30,000 polygons 6 years ago, as well as all those advanced skin shaders, physics, etc. and had more texture quality, variety and detail than any current game. In fact, it did well over 1 million polys per scene on a regular basis. This is nothing to get excited about if the games themselves don't change to make use of the hardware, and that is not going to happen because the people who actually innovate on consoles (i.e. indie devs, occasional Japanese devs, etc.) aren't significantly tech-limited to begin with and can't afford to fully exploit the hardware anyway.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Not interested about any cloud streaming anything at all, I want to own all my games locally.

I don't understand why backward compability is seen as so important though, I think it's starting to get unreasonable. It's not feasible to emulate such powerful CPUs or GPUs, especially something like Cell, which will probably never be done within our lifetimes. It also adds significantly to the manufacturing cost to bundle the old hardware with the knew, when you already get a lot of gear for your money as it is, and these systems are sold at a loss.

 

[deuxhero]

What exactly does a GPU bottle neck gameplay wise aside from some physics?

 

[Dexter]

Oh, one thing that might interest the Codex is that they mentioned their streaming tech will let you play PS3 games on "any system", giving a phone as an example

Assuming this works well (and it won't most likely), you might be able to play Valkyria Chronicles, Atelier and Demon's Souls on your PC.

Don't care, I will stay as fucking far away as I possibly can from that "cloud gaming" crap, if you think Steam/Origin/UPlay or "Always-Online" systems are restrictive, just wait for the amount of buttfuck and payment models (pay for hour of play, pay for single features - forget the concept of "DLC" and "microtransaction" when the game is streamed to you, the entire game is DLC, pay for better graphics details, opening the door for in-game advertising) when/if the "industry" manages to shove that down consumers throats.

Did a long rant about that over here: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/07/16/w...ll-off-gaming-pcs-we-ask-gaikais-david-perry/

Spoiler

Could you stop riding the dick of "cloud gaming" (no better way to put it, sorry) for just a short moment and maybe publish an article about the DANGERS of "cloud gaming" or what "cloud gaming" would destroy?

You asked the guy that just rode this wave and managed to convince SONY to buy his company, what the hell did you think he would say? It's like asking the fox if he thinks henhouse doors are a good idea.
There was a pretty good article in a German gaming magazine about all the downsides "Cloud Gaming" (god I even hate that embellishment for what is basically "we will run the software for you, and you lose all your rights!"): http://tinyurl.com/7map39a

The thought that something like OnLive or GaiKai (or anything like it) might at some point have the success of Steam is truly outright horrifying, not only do you lose any advantage PC gaming might have over consoles (from being able to Mod your game, to tweaking graphics settings and using any kind of control method you like etc.) and would replace all of that with a blurry mess full of compression artifacts, banding and input lag at low resolution and with the game on their side running on low or medium graphics settings to save on processing power so they can serve more customers, but you'd also lose every single consumer right you might still have left when you buy a game as a product (with companies being able to revoke your rights to your entire game library over any reason and physically being able to pull it off). Can't really count on courts like the ECJ doing ALL the thinking for you and protect you against abusive practices: http://tinyurl.com/77d5n43
I see it as the ultimate form of DRM, worse than anything I could have ever imagined a few years ago and I'm appalled that most people don't seem to regard it as such.

You would lose, among other things:
1) Being able to play all games at all times (see Uplay last weekend)
2) Playing with maximum graphics details and options enabled
3) Playing normal multiplayer (OnLive for instance only hosts Multiplayer between other OnLive players because of latency, it would be simply too high if you had to send packets this way: Client --> OnLive Server --> Game Server --> OnLive Server --> Compression Algorithm --> Client)
4) Setting up Multiplayer servers and hosting LAN parties would be no more
5) No more playing Offline or when the Net is out
6) No more installing Mods
7) No more tweaking INI files
8) No more cheating (even the good Offline kind where you give yourself a little bit more money or a bigger head)
9) GaiKai or whatever service would likely sit on your save files.
10) No more being able to decide if you want to Patch or not or Rollbacks
11) They could make games even more of a micro transaction mess than they already are
12) They could remove games or game features FOREVER with nobody owning a copy if at any point games would be exclusive to such services (god forbid), Manhunt or similar damaging their reputation too much and not selling enough? Get rid of it forever. A certain feature or spot of your game (nude scene, Coffee Mod or whatever) giving you trouble with the media? Get rid of it forever.
etc.

No, just NO, they'll establish these kinds of services over my dead body.

 

[deuxhero]

Like I said, most likely won't work.

 

[Average Manatee]

It's not feasible to emulate such powerful CPUs or GPUs, especially something like Cell, which will probably never be done within our lifetimes.

Then unless you are a 90 year old man you are retarded. I can't even think up a comparison, a lifetime ago in history we ago didn't have PCs, we had nothing in space, we hadn't broken the sound barrier, you name it.

PS3 is probably emulate-able on present-day consumer technology given a reasonably large amount of coder-hours. If not that, surely in the next decade.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

It's not feasible to emulate such powerful CPUs or GPUs, especially something like Cell, which will probably never be done within our lifetimes.

Then unless you are a 90 year old man you are retarded. I can't even think up a comparison, a lifetime ago in history we ago didn't have PCs, we had nothing in space, we hadn't broken the sound barrier, you name it.

PS3 is probably emulate-able on present-day consumer technology given a reasonably large amount of coder-hours. If not that, surely in the next decade.

The problem is that these systems are more and more complex, and more and more protected by numerous patents, and offer less and less documentation. You get increasingly diminishing returns.

The original Xbox, for example, still has no community emulator at all 12 years later, mostly because NVIDIA is very protective of its IP. It was "emulated" on 360, and what happens was that a custom program and hacks were written for every game, which required considerable time, manpower and money, and ultimately produced pitiful results shockful of glitches, crashes and performance problems, so much that Microsoft completely gave up early on on the whole thing.

 

[Xi]

There is enough headroom in these new generation consoles to last even longer than the previous cycle. Gameplay should see great boons in that technical limitations don't hinder possibilities anymore. I know we say this every generation, but this generation really does make the ultimate stride to better gameplay. Graphics will become a lot easier, gameplay is what it's going to take to sell this generation. Odd shift, I know. But, this is a fact!

I'm excited about what this means for PC gaming. No more pop-in, weird loading schemes, and strange limitations. It's looking good.