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Quigs/EvoG/Solik/D4's small reviews of OB

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
If MSFD wasn't just lying, or if it didn't change in the last few months of development, then we are supposed to assume that line-of-sight is a factor in stealth.

But of course it may not be working in the game, because programming such things and getting them working properly are a mountain of feat for the mentally challenged.
 

EEVIAC

Erudite
Joined
Mar 30, 2003
Messages
1,186
Location
Bumfuck, Nowhere
Brief impressions after a four or five hours play.

I just killed an Orc Vampire, right before the game crashed. (Can Orcs even become Vampires?) RAI is a total fucking blow-out, the character system still sucks (whoever devised the character-gen scenario deserves to be the victim of a ritual sacrifice,) the combat is still pretty iffy, and the game crashes every two hours. That said, exploring is fun and the game runs fairly well on this mid-range system I bought 18 months ago. If you like clearing out dungeons or exploring pretty scenery, there's entertainment to be had.

Its the best action-RPG since Dungeon Lords. I haven't actually explored the RPG part yet but I'm wishing I hadn't chossen Speechcraft as a major skill.

Oh, and Patrick Stewart's performance was astounding. I'm not too proud to admit I wept. "I am old and must die, you are young and must live," or words to that effect. Bra-fucking-vo.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,881
Location
Lulea, Sweden
EEVIAC said:
Its the best action-RPG since Dungeon Lords. I haven't actually explored the RPG part yet but I'm wishing I hadn't chossen Speechcraft as a major skill.

God how much I agree on that one. I did once start up the persuasion mini-game only to lcose it again and avoid it like a plague. why did I pick speechcraft? WHY?
 

7th Circle

Scholar
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
144
Location
The Abyss
Twinfalls said:
Oarfish said:
No directional detection either that I have noticed, just radius checks.

Say what? You're seen even if they are looking the other way? In direct contradiction to what I've read is supposed to be the case?

Line-of-sight seems to be a factor for me; I've been creeping behind people for various purposes...In general, stealth gameplay is certainly an improvement on Morrowind but certainly falls short of Thief.

Oarfish, are you sure the rat wasn't dead (i.e., killed by something/someone else)? Sometimes with rats, it can be hard to tell particularly in dark environments.

kris said:
God how much I agree on that one. I did once start up the persuasion mini-game only to lcose it again and avoid it like a plague. why did I pick speechcraft? WHY?

Yep, the persuasion minigame is really pathetic.
 

Rulion

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
424
Location
bath salt city
Twinfalls said:
I don't geddit, Oarfish. Is line-of-sight a factor in stealth, or does it simply not matter if an NPC is facing the other way?
It matters a lot. For instance, if I'm about to lock pick a door while a guard is walking toward me, I'll be spotted. The moment he passes me and I'm facing his back, I can lockpick without him noticing. Same in shops - the shopkeeper will follow you if you start wandering around suspiciously - if you can somehow snag his attention with something else (say, a conversation with an NPC), you can take advantage of it.
 

Solik

Scholar
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
377
Sorry, but how could you possibly lose at the persuasion minigame? If anything, it's way too easy.
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
Solik said:
Sorry, but how could you possibly lose at the persuasion minigame? If anything, it's way too easy.
I think "lcose" was a misspell of "close" rather than "lose".
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
3,903
OK Rulion, 7th Circle, thats Bethy off the hook on that one then...for now.

For now....
 

Pr()ZaC

Scholar
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
431
kris said:
Pr()ZaC said:
Anyway, I'll try it tomorrow morning with the no compass/markings mod.

I just don't see the problem with the compass. In fact I had played a really longtime before I even noticed it was there. I also have only used it once. IMO, it is neither needed (due to the map) nor is it a problem (due to size and placing).
That's personal, I guess. I don't really like to have a magical compass on my screen that points you to the quest goal. I prefer looking in the map.

Small (and cosmetic) rant list after 1h and a half of gameplay:

Awful models, especially the Emperor. His face seems to be modelled by hand grenades.

The game literally pauses while talking to people. This may be good in some occasions, but the fact that the aggressors magically stopped beating the crap out of the Emperor and me while both of us were chatting, disturbed me.

Awful PC (and some NPCs) animations especially when side-stepping making it impossible to enjoy the view when in 3d person mode.

Voice acting is (partially) screwed. An old female beggar approached me and asked for money and when I tried the "seduction game" her voice TOTALLY changed.

Graphically speaking, this game is as next gen as Far Cry. At least in Far Cry there were stencil shadows at work!

Cities seem dead.

Guards and NPCs sometimes have XRAY vision.

Stolen goods should be sellable (sp) to everyone except the NPC that was robbed. How would someone know that the item is indeed stolen?

No per-hit detection system. I hit 3 times a goblin in the head with my arrows and the bastard didn't die.

That's it for now. The rest isn't much different than Morrowind.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,881
Location
Lulea, Sweden
Lumpy said:
Solik said:
Sorry, but how could you possibly lose at the persuasion minigame? If anything, it's way too easy.
I think "lcose" was a misspell of "close" rather than "lose".

Indeed. Basically you can't fail since you have unlimited retries. I can probably hit 100 by persuating one person time and again.
 

Solik

Scholar
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
377
There's a max disposition limit. I can't tell if it's determined by the number of times you've tried to persuade (which suddenly makes the game a lot more interesting) or if it's just a derived number from your race/stats/etc like the default disposition.
 

suibhne

Erudite
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Chicago
Solik said:
There's a max disposition limit. I can't tell if it's determined by the number of times you've tried to persuade (which suddenly makes the game a lot more interesting) or if it's just a derived number from your race/stats/etc like the default disposition.

In Morrowind it was derived. I've seen no evidence it's different here. That means the sole reason to pump Personality is to raise max NPC disposition; the Persuasion minigame is otherwise so easy (once you play it a few times) that you're basically punished for tagging it during character creation.
 

EvoG

Erudite
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
1,424
Location
Chicago
Yea Twin, Stealth is nowhere near as black and white as Thief, but it isn't bad after I learned a couple of things that made a difference. Oh, and consider that in Thief you play a master thief...Garret isn't a noob like we all are. So I suppose we could reserve final judgment on the effectiveness of stealth until one of us makes it to master (apples to apples). It won't be the hightly effective shadow-meter, but it could make a huge difference.

First off, I'm at 60% stealth. I'm a Journeyman and take no penalty for the weight of my boots.

DO NOT wear anything but light armor. I had no clue for quite some time. (yea I know, RTFM :) ). Anyway, I was wearing a couple of heavy pieces mixed in with light, and it did seem strange how easily things noticed me. Switched to all chainmail (light), and now I feel like I'm invisible to everyone all the time.

If you're an archer, shoot from as far away as you can, out from behind something. Right as you left fly, before the arrow hits, duck back behind cover. So far, 8 out of 10 times, I went back to being 'undetected'. If that doesn't work (eye still bright), run back a bit until it darkens and stay in a shadow until the calamity dies down, or, if you're born under the Shadow, use you freebie once a day invisibility (last resort).


Now the game does use LOS(line of sight), but once you peg someone, I suppose the idea is that they've been alerted to where the shot came from, and try to go to that position, effectively appearing to know where you are(ulitmately I think Oarfish was right in assessing that they do radius checks when alerted unless you move far enough away, so I'll chalk that up to game balance and move on.You would be one powerful mother if you could keep pinging dudes all night long completely hidden, so it sucks but I understand why its done this way) . So, as they tell you in sniper school, never stay in one position...keep moving. So as long as you mix it up and retreat from an alert enemy, they should relax in a bit and you can go back to it. Those 3x damage hits really take a nice chunk out, so its worth it.

Now just to tangent slightly, I noticed something about lockpicking that isn't even mentioned in the strategy guide.

When you flick a tumbler, the common practice is to watch how fast it moves initially. There's the quick flick which means the tumbler will fall right away, making it almost impossible to lock it. So, you wait for the slow flicks, as the tumbler will stay in the upright position much longer, time enough to lock it in.

Well, if you look very closely at the top of the tumbler as it stikes the top of the lock, it vibrates if its going to fall right back down. Again, the absolute moment you flip the tumbler, watch it hit the top of the lock...if it IMMEDIATELY vibrates, dont attempt to lock it in. If it doesn't vibrate, odds are you can lock it in without issue. I've increased my effectiveness 10 fold with this little secret.

Robbed the Red Diamond Jeweler last night, and aside from selling a few high grade, slightly magical items (I killed a few side-quest specific baddies with some neat loot), I ganked a shit load of necklaces and gems, a lot I 200 gold for from my fence. Went from having a meager 600 gold to 3000. Bought myself 100 lockpicks now that I'm a pimp. :D
 

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