Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Random thoughts on whatever JRPG you're currently playing?

Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,936
Location
The Khanate
Got hooked by Final Fantasy XII again. My setup is the Struggle for Freedom difficulty mod and a suite of graphical mods from Nexus.

Any tips on Struggle for Freedom? Ive been really wanting to play FFXII, but I heard the PC version is hugely unbalanced, because enemies are not balanced against PCs with two classes or something. OTOH, I dislike that Struggle for Freedom includes a whole bunch of new systems, or at least thats how I understood it. What would be the way to increase diffculty to respectable standards, while not changing any mechanics, or the devs original idea of it at least.
I don't know what exactly would be meant by new systems, unless that refers to the different options for how jobs function. I opted for rebalanced TZA boards. I can't claim to be too familiar with OG or TZA vanilla, but you can go through the SFF changelog. It has extensive documentation in general.

The mod mainly:
-buffs enemies and gives them new abilities
-changes when you acquire spells and gear
-tweaks said spells and gear; new element or proc chance for a weapon, spells may now be multi target, etc.
-replaces some spells with new ones, ie. Balance is gone while there's now a multi target variant of Drain
-changes Hunts around

I don't think it does anything untoward that you wouldn't expect from a proper difficulty mod, it's certainly better than many actual Hard modes in games that simply buff enemies.
 

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
23,680
Location
Mahou Kingdom
Finished the first Shin Megami Tensei.

I started playing this "by accident' after my hands started hurting from playing Strange Journey on an emulator on my phone, but I still wanted to scratch the dungeon crawler itch, but on my far more ergonomic PC set up. My initial impressions coming from Strange Journey were very positive. In particular I enjoyed the compact starting dungeons, the danger posed by encounters, the pace at which new concepts were introduced, and the (lack of endless) dialogue. This initial love affair did not last very long, and my final feelings are only lukewarm, which is high praise really given the genre.

Early dungeons were small and followed the logic of real world architecture e.g. up and down stair tiles being adjacent to each other to represent a stairwell. I never understood why this is sometimes brought up as a good thing by DRPG players, but after experiencing it, it's obvious. DRPGs are, in a fundamental way, games of chance. When you are exploring a dungeon and you come across a fork, one path might lead you to your destination, or at least resources, while another may only be a dead end, which, instead drains the resources you already accumulated. Usually, it's just a coin toss, but when the dungeons follow rules we've learned about built spaces from the real world, we can make educated guesses instead. The result feels a lot less mindless than methodically manually executing a grid search algorithm, even though it's still ultimately a game of guessing the developers' minds.

In the mid-game, the concept of the late early game dungeon Shinjuku mall was repeated (once literally) and expanded on three (?) times, each time naturally being less interesting to me than the first. The first dungeon to be significantly different was Tokyo Destiny Land, which was more abstract, only tenuously grounded in the concept of a theme park. The late game Cathedral on the other hand was "just" a labyrinth, although there was a pattern to each floor which let me sometimes correctly skip parts of the layout once I figured it out. I feel it would have been more enjoyable for me were it not for all the mid-game filler, making me, incorrectly, feel it was "more of the same", especially given how it starts as another "town" type dungeon.

The game becomes entirely toothless after the early game. No new variations to the encounter types are introduced beyond somewhere in the mid game when you encounter enemies which reflect physical attacks, so once you learn to deal with those and the earlier kinds of encounters, it is simply a matter of every now and then making sure your numbers go up with the party strategy you chose by reshuffling to higher level demons, or compensating for a human character leaving your party. Reshuffling demons is an enjoyable exercise of noting demons' skills and stats stored in the "COMP", or in the fusion screen, and finding better substitutes to the ones already in your party, then either recruiting them or fusing (basically crafting) them. Generally speaking, "blob" combat preparation always boils down to menu customization, and ensuring numbers are roughly over some threshold (never very high in this game), which the mentioned monster recruitment and crafting mechanics satisfy well. For human characters numbers go up with equipment, and also which "primary" stats you increase on level up. Again, you lock yourself in to a strategy early here, and then simply execute it by selecting equipment and raising stats following that strategy.

The game's encounter rate is high, which would kill it in the mid-game, as at that point the game "repeats", as it were. However, also around that point, I managed to fuse a demon which had a spell to disable encounters, which made the game entirely about exploring dungeons (which also, as mentioned, began to repeat somewhat in the mid-game, though salvaged later), finding loot, and killing bosses. The exception to this was when I ran out of "Magnetite" (basically, dungeon fuel if you have demons summoned) or money (summoning fee, also used to mostly unnecessarily upgrade your equipment).

As mentioned, very few new concepts are introduced after the early game, but, in that early game, I felt the game opened up nicely, allowing astute players to make short progress if they understood the tools available to them (e.g. strategically selecting rewards through demon conversations, making good use of status effects and noting elemental weaknesses and strengths etc.).

There isn't much text, but what there is well written and to the point. I really enjoyed the sporadic plot and lore dumps, mostly as the prelude into or epilogue closing a boss fight. They were well written, and I really liked the gnostic themed plot. The game has great art, and does a lot with a minimalist approach. The music is OK, not bad or offensive, but better music would have really increased my enjoyment of this game.

Being a DRPG, it side steps a lot of the problems present in JRPGs, and is an overall enjoyable experience when played for efficiency. As usual for all *RPG genres the game is unsound. By unsound I mean you can just beat it with a degenerate strategy where you mindlessly "grind" and then mindlessly steam roll the rest of the game. In particular, Shin Megami Tensei is theoretically unsound, because while there is some kind of limit to party power with the demons you can recruit before accessing new areas, there is no limit to your human characters' levels, and the demons you can craft. Practically speaking, your numbers never need to go so high up anyway, just enough to make a reasonable party strategy able to deal enough damage (and quickly) before running out of MP. For this, you will get all the XP your human characters need going from boss to boss skipping random encounters, and you'll get all the demons you need simply recruiting a few on the way when you're not skipping random encounters. As usual for the genre, the game would have been better were it sound, and the developers more careful to make the bosses blocking progress challenging and demand more knowledge of the game from the player.
 
Last edited:

Nutmeg

Arcane
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
23,680
Location
Mahou Kingdom
Addenudm: More thoughts on Shin Megami Tensei, through the lens of mindlessness

I hate mindlessness in games. The opposite of mindlessness is mindfulness, more commonly called challenge, i.e. when player's neurons are forced to fire in order to win.

Given a game, potential mindlessness is the most mindless approach a player can take and still win. Alternatively, this may also be viewed as minimum challenge - the minimum mental effort a player needs to exude to prevail.

Potential challenge is the how mindful a player must be, on average throughout the course of the game, to optimize some axis of game performance, which has no bearing on the outcome of the game.

Rewarded challenge is how mindful a player must be (again, on average) for game noted achievements beyond basic win conditions e.g. score, rank or clearing "post game content".

Why do I make a point of saying "on average"? To account for mindless chores e.g. re-rolling (in various forms) or navigating through tedious UIs.

Challenge when playing for game time efficiency is a universally applicable measure of potential challenge and a good substitute for rewarded challenge in its absence. Henceforth called "Universal substitute challenge".

What is game time efficiency? It is simply minimizing the amount of game time (in turn based games, turns, in real time games, real time) passes before victory is achieved.

(A/D/J/S)RPGs are interesting because they usually have almost 0 minimum challenge, i.e. they can be played entirely mindlessly, but they also may have decent substitute challenge (usually hampered by how infrequently they accept player inputs), and sometimes rewarded challenge.

Now that you know how I think about things, lets analyze Shin Megami Tensei through this lens.

The game's minimum challenge is close to 0, but probably not 0. The minimum here would be the stupidest combat strategy with the highest level character and demons obtainable at any point in time. Basically if the player just mindlessly grinded to beat every boss with auto battle with their human characters, or failing that, used elemental fusion to rank up their demons to the same end. At least it requires the player to take the time to understand elemental fusion, assuming the former does not suffice, which makes it above 0.

There are "side quests", but they provide no higher challenge ceiling or floor beyond the main game.

Universal substitute challenge (recall: playing for time efficiency) is (at the beginning) decent, consisting of knowing the bosses, and knowing what kind of party can be built efficiently and which plan of attack to deploy to defeat them. Planning a decent party takes mental effort, but building it requires the busy work of re-rolling random encounters and demon conversations to obtain the necessary ingredients, as well as navigating through some tedious UI. The other problem here is most of the bosses are the same, and the kind of party you can use to beat them is always the same, you just may need to reshuffle to higher level demons with higher numbers every now and then (even that is not a real need, most of the time). At least the reshuffling process takes some thought, as at different max level, you'll have different kinds and combinations of demons providing you the tactical options you need.

The other aspect is knowing or guessing the dungeon layouts, with the former obviously being a complete substitute for the latter, both requiring some mental effort, although it's very mechanical. Moving through the dungeons is mostly a snappy exercise, with the only unnecessary tedium being the slow screen flash indicating a trap tile.

The nice thing here is that engaging in random encounters is voluntary, after a certain point, so the player is either using their brain (mildly) to find their way through a dungeon, or rolling encounters in order to prepare a party and accumulate resources for a boss (busy work, but the planning behind it is not).

Another kind of substitute challenge is power gaming. Here there is a "theorycrafting" planning exercise, but without regard to efficiency aspects, it is pure tedium to actually build the power party. You can think of the power gaming as just one additional player made ultimate boss.

In conclusion, I would say Shin Megami Tensei has near 0 minimum challenge, some universal substitute challenge early on, diminishing significantly as the game progresses. It is a mindless game much of the time (rolling a party), very mechanical and near mindless most of the time (exploring dungeons), and an enjoyable planning and learning (trial and error) exercise some of the time. This may sound harsh, but it is well above the *RPG genre standard, mainly by omitting many sins, and offering almost the most the genre can in terms of the core "game" behind it.

I can recommend it to fans of the DRPG genre.
 
Last edited:

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
3,198
Decided to do a better write up about dq 8, 3ds version.
TLDR: It is the worst dq game and devolves into the typical automate battle mode that plagues most jrpg's not even at halfway point of the game.
But it has soul and plenty of little details,shame about there not being anything worthwhile game play wise.

Pros:
Cell shaded style still looks nice and the typical Toriyama character models never get old.Animations are pretty good.Plenty of small details,especially when it comes to characters/monsters and their attacks.This is the only jrpg(minus dq 11) where i actively looked for enemies to see their animations. Robots fusing together to form a big robot was awesome to see.
UI is different based on versions but they are both serviceable.
Cons:
Everything seems to be sharing the same biome. Most of the game will be the grassy generic biome with hills. There is a desert/winter area but the majority is the same layout.
3DS has censorship for specific costumes.Can be restored with a patch.
Versions differences:
Ps2 is much more detailed in terms of draw distances and vegetation.It is a very visible difference.
PS2 has stylized UI that fits the game better while the 3ds gets a generic jrpg UI.
Animation wise there are slight differences.The hero doesn't get fancy hair when max psyched and some small similar stuff.
PS2 is the clear winner if you care about graphics.

Personally found it meh except the bird and boat traversal songs.Nothing really caught my attention.It is all perfectly fine(especially the Trodain castle theme),but it just doesn't feel memorable.
Version differences:
Ps2 has MIDI,while 3ds Jap has orchestral version.You can find a path to restore the orchestral version for the US version on the 3ds.
3DS is the clear winner here with both choices if you want to.

Pros:
Generic dq fantasy story works pretty well here. No dark and broody shit but plenty of deaths,including characters who are the definition of the kick the dog trope.
The ability to converse with your party at any given moment is done very well.They always have something to say and most of their personalities will be in these moments. There is a lot of text here and it almost reminded of the legend of heroes series of how i went to the town just to talk to the npc to see what changed.
Cons:
The party has very minimum interaction in the story.The Jessica boat scene implies there will be more stuff like that but it just goes nowhere.
The story is very predictable.You can pretty much predict most of the game if you just pay even a little bit of attention.
There is no ending where you get cucked by Charmles.
Version differences:
The 3ds ads two new characters,some new events and more wedding options.It is in fact pretty good in terms of how they managed to shoehorn the new stuff into the game.
3ds is literally the same game writing wise,but with more stuff.

Pros:
Some locations have visible stuff you can see and it feels rewarding once you can actually find your way up there.There is good loot to find.
Some examples of actually hidden content in terms of side areas. (Sabre cat,puff puff club,etc)
Cons:
Exploring is a pain in the ass because of the terrain layout and your inability to jump.The huge world also makes exploring very tedious because of the most of the map is filled with nothing.It is a shame they didn't make smaller areas with more worth it content.
Your means of transportation(minus the boat) also suck.The Sabre cat just gets stuck at stuff because of speed and the bird is just obnoxious to control and land where you want to.
Version differences:
The 3ds versions has the map constantly in the lower screen and there are some new blue chests that appear every day.It is just a little bit more convenient ps2 version.

Pros:None.
Cons:Having a attack boosting ability be free and be pretty much uncontested until halfway point of the game is a very level5 decision.
You can literally see how they just randomly gave bosses disruptive wave past Dhalmagus. They had no idea how to stop this loop.
Aoe making the game easy is another level5 staple. Which is why the boomerang is so useful in the early game.
Enemy AI is weird.They are never consistent in focusing on anything and their attack patterns range from idiot savant to just idiot.
You can see this clearly when you select the AI options for your party.
The one thing the enemies can do to hurt you(aoe) gets neutralized by one of your party members getting multi heal at a point where aoe spells could become a problem.
It doesn't help that minus your mage everybody has healing options.
Version differences:
3DS has plenty of qol changes. the biggest one is speed of battle.

Pros:
The ability to pick and mix various skill trees does allow for some diversity.Game giving you metals limes early in acknowledgement of how slow the leveling is.
Cons:
I hate the skill tree system.They took the previous system,ditched 2/3 skills and restricted people to a couple of skill choices.
That wouldn't be bad if :
-Most of the trees were useful,they are not. There is the broken tree,the good tree,the worse good tree and the troll tree.
-Applying the same skill trees to everybody seems interesting but becomes a joke(fisticuffs on Jessica).
-Specific trees allow you to use said skill without the weapon associated with the tree.Staffs are the biggest offender here.
-You can go a level or two without getting enough points to actually get what you want making the level up feel boring.
-Low level runs are boring as fuck because most abilities come from leveling up.
-Replay ability is made painful because this is a 40+ hours game and at the best you will maybe change one skill tree choice.
And then we have the biggest bullshit,your characters get most of what their class needs by simply leveling up and automatically getting said skills.I vastly prefer the old dq system.
Versions differences:
3DS changes a lot. Balance changes and the ability to see the entire tree instead of guessing is too good to pass up.
This with the battle speed makes this the definitive edition.

Pros:
-Plenty of good stuff to craft,both equipment wise and as a means to get money.It makes modern crafting stuff seems like a boring chore.
The ability to see what ingredients can be used means no guessing.That would be terrible for this game.
Crafting recipes being part of the exploration both in towns and on the over world.
Bad:
-Unfortunately the game drop rate is garbage.This pretty much kills some recipes and stealing barely makes a difference until you get the new character.
Version differences:
3DS versions gives you instant alchemy and not having to walk a specific amount of steps until is done.Who thought that was a good idea.

Pros:
A interesting premise connected with exploration(you get specific monsters by defeating them on the over world).
You can get a new character.The most difficult part of dq8.
-Cons
There is zero reason to use anything except the top 5 monsters. Digimon world fixed it years ago by having different leagues.This is even more confusing because specif monster compositions get bonuses.
The AI is a moron and most of the fights are just luck based since you have no control over their actions.
Versions differences:
3DS gives you a new character and there is a additional difficulty level added.

Pros:
They look nice i guess? The tower is the closes thing to a actual dungeon the game gets to.
Cons:
The first dungeon in dq7 is more challenging then every single dungeon in the game.That is because they add various dungeon elements(interaction,puzzles,traps) and just scatter them through all of the dungeons.They never connect any said elements together to actually make a dungeon interesting.
Version differences:
Not much differences between version.

Pro:
The opening town is properly paced.
Cons:
Everything else is not.You get in stuck in this boring loop of entering a generic castle/location and fixing the monarch issue until the halfway point where you actually defeat the "big bad".And then the game just continues on.The entire missing Jessica part feels like padding.The snow area is clearly unfinished and the jungle bird area just feels lazy using same assets but with/without color.
Version differences:
3DS has a additional dungeon.
 
Last edited:

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,981
Location
Flowery Land
I'm going to start Lufia 1 soon, having never played it, since a bug and translation fix patch ("Restored") was released. Any missables of note? Any non-obvious mechanics I should be aware of?
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
11,132
I remember Lufia 1 being a pretty standard JRPG don't think you have to worry too much.

Two was where they added so many things: lots of puzzles (which bonus better solutions that often led to hidden areas and loot), Dragon ball wishing in which the stones were randomly put into chests throughout the world after use (and you'll want to make more than one wish), some of the best dungeon design in jrpg ever with lots of ones with environmental puzzling, a late game radar item that tells you if there are unopened chests in the dungeon/city you're in, Pokemon like monster companion system 3 years before Pokemon was a thing, and lots of other features I've probably forgotten since. Feels pretty safe to say Lufia 2 is the apex of SNES JRPGs.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
1,241
rTRS9Ju.jpg

Replayed Final Fantasy XIII.

The first and foremost issue with the game is that the combat system doesn't fully open up to you until you reach chapter 11. Prior to that point, you're almost always just controlling 2 characters, which isn't fun. Once you infiltrate the airship, you finally get a party of 3, but you still can't choose your party members, the Crystarium grid is still locked down, and you're too poor to buy any accessories. The combat just isn't fun in this gimped state, and there is no point grinding before chapter 11, so you're just running past mobs to the next cutscene. It isn't until you reach Pulse when the combat system really opens up to you, as now you can have a full team of whichever characters you wand and customize them however you want. It took me 20 hours to reach Pulse and that was with me trying to avoid almost every trash battle I could.

Unfortunately, Gran Pulse is pretty aggravating. Half of the surface is corridors, much tighter than the corridors in the game up until now. So tight that you can't go around past the mobs in them. Worse, is there is a tremendous amount of backtracking through these tight corridors, even if you are ignoring the optional hunts and just focusing on the story. Queue several hours of non-stop battles. It quickly becomes exhausting. I hit a wall at the second Barthandelus fight and had to go back and spend a few hours farming the Behemoth and the giant wolf that were fighting each other for CP.

Adamantoise farming for the ultimate weapons was a horrendous experience. I spent ten hours farming using the summon + death trick while listening to podcasts. Never saw a single Trapezohedron drop. I scrounged up enough money to buy one Trapezohedron, upgrade a weapon, dismantle it for 3 more Trapezohedrons, and upgrade Lightning's weapon. Couldn't be bothered to continue farming so I could upgrade everyone else's weapons.

Trying to fill the gestalt gauge within the time limit during the Eidolon battles was cancer.



The second major problem is the story, namely the lack of adventure. The first 10-15 hours of the game aren't spent going on an exciting fantasy adventure to slay evil or overthrow tyrants. Instead, the characters have no idea what they should do, so they're just wandering around aimlessly for 15 hours. You're watching a soap opera that is punctuated by random battles. And the melodrama isn't very interesting. Lightning and Hope are such debbie downers who suck the life out of the story. Lightning is constantly running off from the group, and then the two of them dislike Snow and are plotting to murder him, a character the audience probably likes. The "will Hope murder Snow?" subplot was never really interesting. If you played on Xbox 360, Snow's face was on the second disc of the game so you knew he wasn't going to die. Fortunately the plot begins to pickup in chapter 9 once the team finally decides they're going to assassinate the pope.

I forgot about this man. He is the only other father in JRPGs besides Cassius Bright who isn't dead or evil.

The writing goes into the trashcan during the final 3 hours of the game once the heroes decide to go back to Cocoon. The villain just told them "hey, come back to Cocoon and kill it's power source, Orphan, which will result in the destruction of Cocoon and kill the millions of people in it!". So the heroes decide to do just that... but say "actually we're saving Cocoon!". I have no words to express how dumbfounding this is. Hunting down Barthandelus makes no sense either as he is just one of countless Fal'cie. Even if he dies, other Fal'cie will just brand more people and task them with destroying Cocoon anyway, and the heroes didn't have the time, capability, or knowledge to kill all Fal'cie. Also, none of the heroes had any idea that one of them could transform into Ragnarok and stop Cocoon's descent until after it had already happened. It's also a miracle that millions of people weren't squished into red paste given the sheer g-forces involved when Ragnarok stopped Cocoon's descent, or weren't killed by the lava. How did the heroes turn back from C'ieth? And then there was the dialogue, which got pretty bad during the last three hours too.

The heroes think they have killed Orphan, but Orphan rises from a pool of water again.
Orphan: "You have overreached yourselves."
Lightning: "No u"
Orphan screams

There had to have been a change in writers towards the end.

Though to be fair, there were a few pretty bad lines earlier on. Nobody talks like this.

The game looks visually great. You get to travel through really interesting fantasy environments, such as the hanging edge, a tsunami that was turned into crystal, a biomechanical forest, etc. The action combat is also flashy, especially when the characters launch an enemy in the air and begin air juggling him. Soundtrack is pretty decent. Spell effects are quite nice.

The last Final Fantasy game with amazing environments.
 
Last edited:

Deuce Traveler

2012 Newfag
Patron
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
2,920
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
I just tried Tales of the Drunken Paladin and ended up quitting after only a couple of hours. I was looking for something that could scratch that old school Final Fantasy itch, and this indie game had been mentioned on several forums. What I thought I was going to play was a game about a washed-up paladin, bitter because either the evil empire was victorious some years back, or maybe he beat the evil empire but his own society was so corrupt that he lost faith and went to find solace in a bottle until years later the call to adventure comes calling again. This is the perfect set-up for a blend of dark comedy and more mature, speculative moments.

Instead I got a game where you play a completely unsympathetic moron, with an early companion that seems to eye roll at everything your character says or does. I also wasn't impressed by the dungeon design or the combat. Today's fiction writers are really struggling with making three dimensional characters that are both flawed and sympathetic.

Anyway, I've moved on and am now giving Symphony of War a go. It's a simple, straight to the point plot and I haven't wanted to strangle any of the characters yet.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,263
Got hooked by Final Fantasy XII again. My setup is the Struggle for Freedom difficulty mod and a suite of graphical mods from Nexus.

Any tips on Struggle for Freedom? Ive been really wanting to play FFXII, but I heard the PC version is hugely unbalanced, because enemies are not balanced against PCs with two classes or something. OTOH, I dislike that Struggle for Freedom includes a whole bunch of new systems, or at least thats how I understood it. What would be the way to increase diffculty to respectable standards, while not changing any mechanics, or the devs original idea of it at least.
I'm replaying FFXII as well now. TL;DR the versions balance is:

Original: everyone gets a license board that allows them to unlock every skill and gives balanced growth in all stats. Everyone ends up superhuman and there's no difference at all between characters.
IZJS: There are 12 jobs, each jobs specializes in a specific skillset and gets more focused growth in specific stats (so mages will be able to have more mana and do more damage with magic than a balanced character in original). You have 6 characters so at most 6/12 jobs can be picked
Zodiac Age: IZJS but you can pick 2 jobs per character. You can't stack stat growth from two classes (so if you pick two mage classes unlocking improved magick power on one fills out the same bonus on the other, but you only get one growth point). So for the most part you want to make characters some variation of fighter/mage. You can pick 12/12 jobs, though you can also double up and pick the same job with multiple characters. You can also respec characters to a new job.

If you want a balanced version and aren't afraid of a bit of difficulty, trial and error, and needing to come back later to complete optional content, I'd recommend just going with New Game - mode. This makes it so your characters don't level. This is not as big a deal as you think since equipment and skills makes up a huge part of what your characters can do in the game. It was possible in both Original (where you had to sacrifice an item slot to avoid leveling) and IZJS (where mages would cap out at like 600 HP without getting HP from leveling) as a hardcore challenge, but in Zodiac Age with all characters being able to reach a decent 2000-3000 base HP and having the flexibility of respeccing it's been pretty fair to me so far about 20 hours in.

I'm also using https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy12/mods/276?tab=description as a difficulty enhancer but I'd consider that to be far too punitive for a new player. I'm also using https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy12/mods/96?tab=description (only the chests part) which helps avoid some various bullshit since I'm not following a guide to know how to farm specific chests for essential stuff, and https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy12/mods/109 for pure convenience
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
13,575
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Final Fantasy XIII is the worst RPG I've ever completed, assuming it counts as an RPG.

I found it enjoyable enough to finish, which makes it a good enough game in my book. A legit terrible game is so unenjoyable I can't be bothered to stick it out to the end, of which I've dropped plenty.
I can't believe you guys got past the beginning. Between all the cutscenes and the gameplay that was literally running down a corridor, I noped out pretty quickly.
 

newtmonkey

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
1,384
Location
Goblin Lair
I got around 20 hours into FF13, and it was just dire. I can't believe I put that much time into it, but it was sort of a Stockholm syndrome situation, or maybe that sunk cost fallacy thing. I recall one cinema scene early on has two characters on opposite sides of a room facing away from each other, yet talking to each other. I thought the game had bugged out.

I remember reading an interview with someone at Square, where they were trying to make excuses for the corridor world of FF13. They said that traditional RPG towns "just don't work" with next-gen hardware, or something. It didn't make much sense, but I think they were trying to say that a typical JRPG town of seven houses and five guys standing around would look ridiculous with more realistic graphics.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
1,241
I think they were trying to say that a typical JRPG town of seven houses and five guys standing around would look ridiculous with more realistic graphics.

An absurd argument given that FF12 on the PS2 had the bustling metropolis of Archades, where the entire city wasn't playable, but instead you got to take a taxi around to different playable sections of the city which were packed with NPCs and shops, and you could see more city extending in the unplayable background. Could've just done something like that. The Last Remnant did the same thing with the central city of Elysion. The hardware was more than capable. The dev was deflecting from the pre-production issue of the planners having lost sight of what Final Fantasy fans expected from a Final Fantasy game, but that topic is a dead horse.
 

Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,936
Location
The Khanate
I have a dream that one day we'll have a FFXII where you can go more than 10 seconds without loading into a new area, and that world will get to shine in all its glory.
 

notpl

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Messages
1,634
Anyway...

2em6jD8.gif


Ogre Battle meets Fire Emblem meets Langrisser meets HoMM.

:yeah:

F1lQDVr.jpg

5aR8p1q.jpg

OWXjmAs.jpg

N3bZxX2.jpg

FuJJw7D.jpg


I've read some criticism towards character design. No idea what's this about, since it's PERFECT.

GHlGdeJ.jpg

ckFbdGc.jpg


:love:
What about the Lost Eidolons?
It is clearly "inspired" by fe:3h, ie rips off the exploring between the battles, monsters, and job shenanigans, but does it improve upon this?
Worse than 3 houses in every way, unfortunately.
 

notpl

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Messages
1,634
Anyway...

2em6jD8.gif


Ogre Battle meets Fire Emblem meets Langrisser meets HoMM.

:yeah:

F1lQDVr.jpg

5aR8p1q.jpg

OWXjmAs.jpg

N3bZxX2.jpg

FuJJw7D.jpg


I've read some criticism towards character design. No idea what's this about, since it's PERFECT.

GHlGdeJ.jpg

ckFbdGc.jpg


:love:
What about the Lost Eidolons?
It is clearly "inspired" by fe:3h, ie rips off the exploring between the battles, monsters, and job shenanigans, but does it improve upon this?
Worse than 3 houses in every way, unfortunately.
Why? what did they broke, so its even worse?
Fewer/less interesting classes: they progress very linearly with each armor/weapon type (fighter -> sword + board fighter -> sword + board fighter v2.0) with almost no hybrid options

No unique units: every character learns the exact same skills from class mastery. One character won't have an affinity with a certain type of elemental magic or what-have-you.

Fixed stat progression: Characters have predefined stats and the levelup screens are just for show. Dubious change from FE's randomization but in practice I definitely found it less fun.

Horrific writing: Self-explanatory. They tried to write gritty western fantasy and they just don't have the chops for it. Fire Emblem: Three Houses had charming characters getting into funny situations, whether you thought the game needed that or not, this one forces the characters down your throat the same way except they have absolutely nothing of note to say. The most generic "oh man, I'm so tired of This War, War Is So Bad, I wish I could go back home to my village but my village was destroyed, by The War!" crap you can imagine.

Bosses are immune to damage until you wipe every other unit on the field and enemy units don't move/patrol and they activate together with an xcom-style pod system, making virtually every map play out identically.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
1,241

Monochrome Mobius: Forgotten Rights and Wrongs
Aka the Utawarerumono Prequel JRPG.

When the game started up, it didn't recognize my controller inputs. Had to fiddle around with the keyboard in the options menu for a while before my controller finally worked.

Resolution settings are weird. When display mode is set to fullscreen, the resolution setting is greyed out and locked. You have to set the game to windowed, which then allows you to increase the resolution to 4k, then set it back to fullscreen.

The graphics settings are just "low", "medium", and "high". Can't tweak shadow resolution, antialiasing, nothing.

Started a new game on hard difficulty (might restart on normal later if it's way too hard), and was greeted with empty text boxes:


Restarting the game fixed the blank text issue.


Screen tearing. Going into Nvidia control panel and enabling Vsync for the game fixed this.

Characters on the equipment screen are rendered at a low resolution, for some reason.


Meanwhile, enemies in the beastiary are rendered at full resolution.


Other than those few technical hiccups, the game seems to be fine.



Turn bonuses from Trails are in this game. Sorta. While you can perform turn manipulation, there are no repercussions if the enemy gains a turn bonus. :(
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,263
I have a dream that one day we'll have a FFXII where you can go more than 10 seconds without loading into a new area, and that world will get to shine in all its glory.
And also better gambit settings, with conditions and shit.
Got fucking tired of mages slinging silence on silence-immune mobs.
I dunno, that'd make it easy to instantly know enemy weaknesses since gambits can see anything about an enemy. A bunch of elemental weakness->use element gambits already let you instantly see enemy weaknesses but you can see those anyway with Libra. Having a perfect scripted debuffer seems like it'd make things too simple and automated. Knowing which debuffs to use is already kind of half the gameplay in difficult areas.

Plus if you're just wanting to spam conditions on normal enemies in an area you can just equip weapons that inflict them automatically.

I do with there was way to actually use fucking measures as intended through gambiting though. They unlock nice buffs way before you can get them as spells but using them is absolutely incredibly tedious.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
Patron
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
5,320
Replayed Final Fantasy XIII.
You're a brave individual. I barely played through it once and I was so unenthusiastic I remember it taking seven months to actually muster the willpower and see it through in bursts. I agree the production side definitely deserves all the praise as it was artists running wild. On the other hand, writers pretty much deserve to be lined up and shot. Easily the worst core entry for me.
 

AdamReith

Magister
Patron
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
2,109
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Played through Shining Force for the first time last week. I can see why this series gets so much love, the gameplay is brilliant but the character design and sense of humour really catapult it to the level of all time great.

I would have played it much sooner if I had known it included centaurs with bazookas as playable characters. Also the wizards plan to transform people into chickens as a long term food supply initiative was both chilling and hilarious.

Sprite art is just magic, it just hits me somewhere I haven't really felt since I was a kid. Music is wonderful too. Sick that I missed this one, had a genesis growing up but was never able to rent a game that wasn't shit.

Mapping out Shining in the Darkness in excel now. Really impressed with what they acheive with the minimal character interactions present in a DRPG.
 

perfectslumbers

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
1,202
Played through and finished SMT: Nocturne, on hard difficulty and mostly blind (I didn't use a fusion calculator or online maps, but I did look up where to go to get to the next dungeon a few times.) The game was really good, but also very frustrating. People say the difficulty of the game is overstated, but I cannot possibly see that being true unless you look up mechanics on the wiki or know how to fuse all the fiends. The game was absolutely brutal to the point that I don't think anyone actually playtested hard difficulty. The first tutorial tunnel required about 15 restarts because if my character missed a single attack it became mathematically impossible. Once I got into the rest of the game things were mostly doable, but every random encounter had about a 3% chance of being impossible, with many encounters where the enemy would act first and kill me in a single turn. The game has an agility stat and a luck stat which theoretically help a lot with the rng, but after my playthrough I found out the agility stat is broken and completely useless, and the luck stat is heavily undertuned, meaning the points i allocated to them were pointless. The only other way to mitigate rng is by using magatama and demon fusion to create an mc and a party that's immune to the attacks that the most common enemies in the area use. Unfortunately this requires knowledge of the wide list of random enemies in each area, a retarded amount of money because of the unfathomable magatama costs, and knowledge of how to fuse the right demons (which is very difficult without a fusion calculator.) SMT V is a bad game but the compendium fusion option is a nice addition so that you don't have to go check a fusion website to form a party.

This sounds like me complaining but it's only half complaining really. Hard mode was frustrating and some clear improvements could be made (there's a mod that fixes some of the things I mentioned,) but it was also a nice challenge. The game was unfair bullshit but that made it extremely rewarding when I managed to understand and abuse the mechanics. After pretty much every boss fight I cheered with elation. On the topic of bosses they felt way more fair than the random encounters, and were the highlight of the game for me. Obviously Matador is infamous, but I thought the trial of fire he puts you through to force you to learn combat was a lot of fun. Trumpeter was super unique and required a totally bizarre form of hp and party management. The three sisters was too easy but I loved the idea of three bosses that you have to beat without resting in between, and then have to fight all at once later.

One of the common criticisms of the game was that the story was limp because the characters were weak, but I disagree. For a lot of people nowadays it seems like the only type of character they can accept is one that's highly developed and relateable and believable. Those are all good ways to create a character but Nocturne is a bizarre game that takes place in an ephemeral limbo world, and i find it fitting and compelling that it's characters are just as bizarre and otherworldly as the vortex world itself. The cutscenes with each character explaining their ideal world, and the cutscenes where they later go completely fucking insane drives home the corruptive nature of the hostile world they find themselves in, and meshes well with the players experience of the world (at least on hard difficulty.)

I got the freedom ending on my first playthrough, which I honestly found pretty disappointing.
The lead up was great, with being questioned about your humanity and with Yuko constantly reaching out and being the only sane person, but also too weak to have a reason because of it. The actual ending itself was crap though. Seriously, everything goes back to normal and me and my friends are having fun at the mall? It's like if Frodo at the end of LOTR just started smoking pipeweed and eating sausages all day again. Some trials cannot be undone. Yes it is a new world and a new demifiend, but just as the enemies he made in his creation of the next world will persist and hunt him down, I believe the experiences there should've persisted into his next life as well.

Dungeon design was somewhat mixed, but solid overall. The games dungeons were very labyrinthine, and lacked much in interactivity and detail. Normally I'd rag on a dungeon crawler for having dungeons low in interactivity and detail, but I think the dungeons fit really well with the world the game takes place in because of that. As the world itself is a limbo, so are the dungeons themselves, disorienting and confusing and designed in ways that no dungeon could be in a world that has properly working laws of physics. The game went a little too far with this sometimes, particularly with the sections that were just mazes of trial and error teleport tiles, or invisible pit drops. Other times it was executed perfectly like in Kabukicho which was confusing, but was a puzzle that could actually be figured out through careful observation.

Also fuck the mechanic where your party members will throw away 6k macca per turn if they get confused. I had to reload a lot because of it.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom