Return To Monkey Island - MI2 sequel from Ron Gilbert

[Keshik]

Even after knowing the ending was coming I was still sort of disappointed. Well, was still fun, took me 9-10 hours (I'd left it running for maybe an hour over this past week while doing other stuff), did cheat sort of with the coin puzzle - swore I did the solution last night and it didn't work - and I just missed the starting point clues for the combo lock at the very end. Other than that, no cheating - that should indicate how easy the game is, heh.

Scrapbook said I found Wally when I didn't, guess I have to go back and fix that for completion's sake. Wasted character, like...well, pretty much most of them

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Monkey Island pissed in the well, and it was sincerely funny when it happened because adventure games had been so universally obtuse and frustrating and humorless, but that can't be repeated. MI2 didn't even try, it is such a straightforward adventure game that nothing in it is memorable except the ending, which again, subverted our expectations.

The problem with this is that nearly every major game released before Monkey Island in the adventure genre was either a comedy or had its tongue firmly in cheek. Even to the point of poking fun at their own plots and conventions. What's happening is people's own selective memory. Nobody seems to remember the parts of games they solved on their own, they always fixate on the parts they couldn't. Now some fifteen years from the last major adventure game, people has quite successfully created the image that it wasn't their fault at all, no, it was those damn retarded developers who live in secluded towers and never talk to humans. That's why those bastards made me give cranberries to a storyteller to get a book, because they don't operate on any logic known to any human being beyond themselves.

 

[Atlantico]

The problem with this is that nearly every major game released before Monkey Island in the adventure genre was either a comedy or had its tongue firmly in cheek.

Probably, but it wasn't subversive. Monkey Island was subversive, and it wasn't because of comedy.

 

[The BRM]

Part of that is the natural way that Adventure game really were of a time and place, but part of it was that LucasArts games were just better, and you could see Sierra emulating them by the time Gabriel Knight hit. And Curse of Monkey Island was mind blowing at release.

Yes, though the wave of decline in the wake of the Secret of Monkey Island was unstoppable.

Curse of Monkey Island was a valiant attempt at a serious adventure game and a damn good attempt, but the damage was done.

Adventure games had become a trope, a meme — a joke — thanks to the Secret of Monkey Island. Adventure games would become niche because the mainstream zeitgeist turned against them because of the subversion of the Secret of Monkey Island.

Don't completely agree with it being SJW nonsense back then

I didn't see it that way back then, I'm looking at it now and I can't help but cringe, knowing what was to follow.

All female characters in the Secret of Monkey Island are smart, gifted, powerful and/or talented.
All male characters in the Secret of Monkey Island are stupid, cheating, bullying and/or rapists.

One of the major subversions is that the Sword Master of Melee Island is a black woman and you are beneath her contempt. The governor is a woman and the main antagonist is a man.

You can go through the entire character roster in the game and it never fails. From the loud, stupid and patronizing Pirate leaders, to the wise black voodoo woman, it's one long SJW trope.

Which is why different things have different meanings depending on context. Carla was based on a Lucasfilm employee they were friends with. Elaine was based on sometime too, IIRC. The Voodoo pirestess is a trope. I don't disagree with what you are saying completely but the thing is that this is something going back for decades in sitcoms and the like. Having a true wacky female who went through the ringer like the men did in sitcoms was nearly impossible. In the Simpsons Lisa and Marge are both the smart normal ones, in Cheers the women were the straights that the more eccentric characters played off of. MASH was the same way. For whatever reason, and there can be lots of them, a dude as a main character playing a good natured doofus is a-ok. It's a common comedy trope.

 

[Brancaleone]

All female characters in the Secret of Monkey Island are smart, gifted, powerful and/or talented.
All male characters in the Secret of Monkey Island are stupid, cheating, bullying and/or rapists.

The game lets you think that the protagonist might be growing into a hero by the end, but no: there's actually no need for Guybrush, since Elaine has solved everything single-handedly, and it doesn't work only because Guybrush clumsily scares away the monkeys with the root-beer. Basically, without Guybrush, everything would have turned out for the better, thanks to Elaine.

 

[Atlantico]

Which is why different things have different meanings depending on context. Carla was based on a Lucasfilm employee they were friends with. Elaine was based on sometime too, IIRC.

I wouldn't berate them for including any particular woman or POC or whatever, if it wasn't so consistent. It's not just the protagonist, I can absolutely forgive that, as you say it is a trope — however, all sitcoms from the Simpsons to All in the Family, there were both stupid and smart men somewhere. Subversive as they were, they didn't go all the way like Monkey Island.

Monkey Island is very consistent, and it surprised me as I played through it a couple of months ago, because I did not remember it be so very SJW. But it is. The very first person you meet in the game is a completely inept and stupid and blind watchman. The next person you meet is a stupid and fat man, the next a cowardly superstitious man, the next three you meet are loud, stupid and obnoxious men, the next person you meet is a shady and unscrupulous man who is selling fake maps, the next persons you meet are three unemployed loser men who loiter on the street with a rat, and the next character you meet is a smart and sassy voodoo lady who has powers of mindreading and magic.

It doesn't change that formula at all, the entire game. There are exactly three women characters in the game and all of them are smart, capable and wise. Is that a coincidence? All other characters*, all men, area stupid, craven, criminal — but this is just one aspect, the plot itself reflects the strong independent woman postmodernist trope, when you finish the game, it turns out Elaine never needed rescue. She had everything under control. Because she is a strong independent woman.

I don't think Ron Gilbert did this because he was a "fourth wave feminist", I think he did this because he was turning the subversion level as high as it could possibly go. Monkey Island subverted everything it touched, not just adventure gaming.

*(not counting dogs, monkeys or other animals)

 

[Brancaleone]

All other characters*, all men, area stupid, craven, criminal

*(not counting dogs, monkeys or other animals)

The Cannibals are sort of cool. Otherwise it would be racist.
But definitely not at Carla's level. Otherwise it would be sexist.

 

[Infinitron]

Carla was a bitch who betrayed me with the rest of the crew:

 

[The BRM]

Carla was a bitch who betrayed me with the rest of the crew:

Yeah, Carla is just like every one else, but more pretentious about it. She's not even that great a swordfighter, as every pirate has to beat her.

 

[RapineDel]

Just finished this, didn't really rush through and went in with minimal expectations after disliking the art style and especially Ron and the team's typical response to criticism.

P&C Adventures are few and far between in 2022 so I'm not going to blast it, but it was pretty middling and I enjoyed Thimbleweed Park more.

Something that stood out to me is basically every new character was terrible. You could have removed Captain Madison and her crew from the story and it really wouldn't have changed this too much. It really did seem like they were added in as an excuse to add diversity to the task while making a tired joke that it was out with the old white guys and in with the new. It ended up messing with the pacing as well as you have these sequences of multiple characters chasing each other round which never goes too well, it has that Escape feel of inserting another villain into the mix which just feels messy.

It was easily the least funny entry of the series, Tales isn't very funny either but the whole bit with the ignorant Pirates who won't trust in the Science was one of the worst bits I've seen in a while. I don't understand why people feel the need to add political humour to games like this, it ages horribly and anyone who plays this in 10 years will be scratching their heads. I've gone back to watching clips of MI 1 - 3 to check if it's just me being nostalgic but there's genuinely funny moments in those games (Stan in the crypt in MI3 comes to mind, that whole sequence is great).

Coming back to the pacing, I felt Act 3 was very weak (and at this point I was pretty concerned about the game), Monkey Island is a handful of screens and most of the puzzles are yet again on LeChuck's ship which isn't too interesting a second time around, I was fairly worried at this point that we were getting a pretty short game given I knew there were only 5 Acts (from the achievement list).

Fortunately Act 4 was the real puzzle Act and I'm sure the high point for most people. That being said, I was a bit disappointed the second or explored my first new Island, Scurvy. Upon seeing the map and clicking on the Lighthouse, Guybrush makes a comment but that's it, you don't actually go there. Instead this map is basically a pointless entrance (beach), a one camp screen and one other screen. This is a theme on the other new Islands as well, very little exploration/locations. Even Brrr Muda is pretty bare bones despite being the only substantial new Island in the game. I enjoyed this Act, but it felt like a watered down version of the 4 Map pieces, the latter probably being my favourite puzzle section of any adventure game.

The new interface system is also garbage. You can barely interact with anything, they seem to think this streamlines things but it makes the game feel extremely small and almost all the potential comedy from previous games in this vein is gone. The worst part is the only time you can actually use the wrong item is for things that don't even result in a joke, like trying to use the wrong key in a lock "It's the wrong key", why even bother including something like that but not at least include some sort of comedic element? There's some idiots on Reddit who seem to think this feature was "innovative", the only reason it exists is to make playing on the Switch easier, it adds absolutely nothing and instead removes anything interesting.

As for the story, I don't really care too much about this and wasn't expecting anything after the way Thimbleweed Park went, however I much would of preferred they just told a new standalone story with new Islands and characters rather than somewhat retconning the end of LeChuck's Revenge for a few more jokes that fell flat. Nothing they included added to previous games in the series and most of the returning characters were done a disservice. Carla was just strange and the sword fighting animation every time you tried to talk to her was annoying, Stan was overused despite this being the least funny version of him (both writing and voice acting wise) & I was never really feeling LeChuck, the new voice actor could have been worse but he just didn't really steal any scenes. That said I appreciate that Gubrush & Elaine weren't really ruined in any way like they could of been.

All in all it was your typical, serviceable "reunion" game and probably similar in quality to Broken Sword 5. Nothing new, nothing that stands out and I probably won't replay it. If anything it just goes to show that most creative types do all their best work in a short window and nothing that comes after will ever match it, I probably enjoyed the Letter from Ron & Dave more than anything in the game, I can understand where they're coming from.

 

[I ASK INANE QUESTIONS]

" - Look, if you think about it - a story is just a vessel for the message between the storyteller and the audience. It's not about what's happening in a story, nor how it's presented to the audience, it's what you're trying to convey with it."
" - So what are you trying to express with your game then?"
" - Well, I'm using it to tell you about my struggle with erectile dysfunction."

Bruh...

 

[Keshik]

Wonder how much money he made off this.

 

[RapineDel]

Wonder how much money he made off this.

This game will make some money, but I can guarantee there will be a significant drop off if a sequel is released in the next few years.

I think there's a LOT of people who have nostalgic memories about Monkey Island and strange art or not, they were going to buy it. These are the sorts of people who played it for an hour, left a positive Steam review and will probably forget about it and never play it again.

Most sequels in this vein only sell well if the first has great word of mouth and despite a burst of success, even the Reddit for this has turned negative after initially spazzing out at anyone who even questioned Ron's "vision" after the art was released. Unless there's a drastic change in direction I'd expect a sequel to this to be the final nail at least for a long time.

 

[NoSoup4you]

View attachment 28592

Well, that's the final nail in the coffin for me checking out this game... I consider myself a moderate, but there's nothing that bums me out faster than booting up a game and finding out I've financially contributed to changing how English works.

 

[Star Citizen]

I'mma give this a shot.

 

[markec]

Few days ago I found out this game exists and just now I finished reading the every page of this thread.

After seeing how this game turned out I must say that I feel very disappointed, that I missed out on shitposting, not for the game itself since there was no chance it would be good.

The game is a embarrassment and every person spending their time playing it should be embarrassed themselves.

 

[80s Stallone]

Wonder how much money he made off this.

This game will make some money, but I can guarantee there will be a significant drop off if a sequel is released in the next few years.

I think there's a LOT of people who have nostalgic memories about Monkey Island and strange art or not, they were going to buy it. These are the sorts of people who played it for an hour, left a positive Steam review and will probably forget about it and never play it again.

Most sequels in this vein only sell well if the first has great word of mouth and despite a burst of success, even the Reddit for this has turned negative after initially spazzing out at anyone who even questioned Ron's "vision" after the art was released. Unless there's a drastic change in direction I'd expect a sequel to this to be the final nail at least for a long time.

The trick is to make the next monkey island pixelart

 

[Blackthorne]

Thanks MRY - I only wish I could make a game with the backing and budget RMI had... jeez. QFI2 would be badass if I had the budget, hah!

 

[RuySan]

Been playing the game, but not really feeling it. Feels empty and lifeless. I'm at Chapter 4, and some fundamental things bothered me:

- Adventure games need forward momentum....whoever thought it was interesting to go back to le chuck's ship for yet another chapter?
- Everything feels empty...not enough objects and stuff to interact.
- I know this is to be expected, because most MI sequels suffered from the same...but not everything needs to be a joke. If every sentence tries to be funny....then nothing is.

 

[Darkozric]

After seeing how this game turned out I must say that I feel very disappointed, that I missed out on shitposting, not for the game itself since there was no chance it would be good.

You would make a fine addition, but be optimistic, there's always a chance for a return to Maniac Mansion.

 

[I ASK INANE QUESTIONS]

After seeing how this game turned out I must say that I feel very disappointed, that I missed out on shitposting, not for the game itself since there was no chance it would be good.

You would make a fine addition, but be optimistic, there's always a chance for a return to Maniac Mansion.

Just imagine the cast of Maniac Mansion rendered in the Alegria style. Can't wait.

 

[The BRM]

After seeing how this game turned out I must say that I feel very disappointed, that I missed out on shitposting, not for the game itself since there was no chance it would be good.

You would make a fine addition, but be optimistic, there's always a chance for a return to Maniac Mansion.

Just imagine the cast of Maniac Mansion rendered in the Alegria style. Can't wait.

The hell is Algeria style?

 

[Strig]

The hell is Algeria style?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Memphis

 

[ADULF HITLOR FAN KLUB]

Wonder how much money he made off this.

The game is at spot 28 on Steam after less than a week. They probably earned more than enough to cover all development costs and make a (small) profit, but not enough to go into retirement, so expect a sequel.

Compare that to Disco Elysium, which just kept running for months.

 

[negator2vc]

The game is at spot 28 on Steam after less than a week. They probably earned more than enough to cover all development costs and make a (small) profit, but not enough to go into retirement, so expect a sequel.

I thought Gilbert no longer care about his career and he only did it for "fun".

https://www.eurogamer.net/returning-to-monkey-island-with-its-legendary-creators
"I don't think it was important in terms of my career... It was just a fun thing to do," Gilbert laughed
I've been making games professionally for almost 40 years. So, I kind of don't care about my career in a lot of ways."

But I won't be surprised, especially considering the way he reacted to valid criticism about RtMI, if he try to crap all over Maniac Mansion as he suggested in a tweet (which at the time looked like just a joke at the expense of his critics).