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Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Prime Junta, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    hi tessera
     
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  2. Latelistener Cipher

    Latelistener
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    The basic version now feels like the plus version, but from several years ago when I was replaying it the last time.

    There are so many changes even from the start that I fear we need another version of basic that concentrates on fixing bugs exclusively, but that's not going to happen.

    It's probably easier to just find an older version of the patch, but links are mostly dead below version 7.
     
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  3. HansDampf Arcane

    HansDampf
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    Tell Wesp5 exactly what the basic version changes, and he will remove it.
     
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  4. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Or use the True Patch. Regardless what people think of the creators behind it, it is still a well working patch with minimal to no changes to the original game.
     
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  5. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    Ignore Tessera Posts.

    Close Tessera threads.

    Ban Tessera posters.
     
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  6. SausageInYourFace Angelic Reinforcement Patron

    SausageInYourFace
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    Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I understand that people would like to play something without any changes whatsoever. I will say that have never played the original but I have recently played the game with the patch and there wasn't a single instance in the whole playthrough where something felt out of place or inconsistent to me.
     
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  7. Latelistener Cipher

    Latelistener
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    I just started the game and I already see there are many unnecessary changes in the intro movie, like different camera angles and animations.

    Then there was the dialogue line where Jack asks you to "move a bit" shortly after the intro, which was restored to the plus version. Now it's in the basic version and that's only a half of the problem.

    You start the tutorial in a completely different place, after which Jack asks you to "move a bit" and then you're teleported to the old tutorial area (you can't refuse obviously, since there's only one dialogue option). I'd say that's a questionable change even for the plus version, but it's in the basic.

    Honestly, I think that's the real problem with Wesp. Whoever asks him to do something he just does (adds or removes), without any kind of policy or a sense of taste.

    I remember in one of the patches he added tourniquet at the entrance of Confession, in which I managed to stuck so I had to reload. Not sure if it's still there.

    Honestly I'm not that kind of a purist. I'm up for any positive changes, like GMDX for Deus Ex, which only improves graphics and gameplay but doesn't touch story or dialogues. I even asked Ash to fix a few things, but he said he won't touch any story related stuff.

    Judging from what I read about Tessera, I'd probably stick to 1.2. Seems like the Steam version is working fine under Windows 10.
     
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  8. Wesp5 Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Wesp5
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    The big thing changed there was showing the head coming off in the execution which was cut in all European versions. Maybe to you this is not a fix, but to me it is! I also hid some floating NPCs and added some blood, but the latter is plus only...

    Yeah, this is the most recent big change of the patch and I thought long if this should be in basic or plus. You see, after the intro you leave the theatre by the back entrance and end up in the tutorial location. Later in the downtown hub you can go to the theatre back entrance and the area looks completely different! This was bugging players for years. I remember seing plans on how the hub would needed to be change which is just impossible. Then recently somebody came up with the movement solution. To me this is a bug fix, because these exits should look the same!

    That is a restoration after a beta screenshot and is plus patch only. And you can ask Venus to remove it if you really get stuck all the time :)!

    But if you find other issues that should not belong into basic, just tell me. The basic patch was retro engineered out of plus so there is always the chance that I overlooked something...
     
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  9. Vibalist Arcane

    Vibalist
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    But it's a really, really bad restoration, Wesp. It adds nothing to the experience of playing Bloodlines. Not everything needs to be restored if it's objectively awful, you're allowed to make your own decisions here.
     
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  10. jackofshadows Arbiter

    jackofshadows
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    Actually, that exact thing averted me from playing with Wesp's patch further few years ago. I didn't stuck but I was like :what: is this? Why?! If this approach extrapolates on the whole game, I'm outta here. Call me purist if you want, don't care.

    To fix some old bugs is one thing, but to restore content which was cut for a damn good reason is a completely different story.

    But hey, it's nice to have options, 1.2 is still there and it's perfectly playable.
     
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  11. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    it doesn't really but yea Wesp5 should definitely cut the turnstile from the basic patch
     
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  12. Hóngwèibīng Arcane Vatnik

    Hóngwèibīng
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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. 502 Learned

    502
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    Also revisiting the game with the most recent Unofficial Patch and Werner, is there a reason to end every dialogue with a line by the PC? Since it's the Basic Version I'm guessing it's a precaution to prevent lock-ups or something like that.

    e.g. Nines saying "I've got my eye on you, kid" in the Last Round used to be the end of that dialogue with captions instead of the dialogue interface and the PC moving freely. Same with Sebastian's "Here are the keys to your new haven, I hope it's to your liking".
     
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  14. Wesp5 Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Wesp5
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    The Confession turnstile is already only part of the plus patch and you can ask Venus to remove it if you get stuck. It's not our fault that the Bloodlines source engine has bad physics ;)...
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  15. Wesp5 Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Wesp5
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    There are several reasons: 1) in long sentences you see the facial animations better if you are kept in the dialogue camera, 2) some players like the option to cut the sentence short by pressing a key in case something is triggered only after the sentence is finished and 3) there are difficulties to display some foreign characters in the top titles which are not there in normal dialogue.
     
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  16. Goral Arcane Patron The Real Fanboy

    Goral
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    Yup, at this point Wesp5 is doing more bad than good. QFT:

    And more importantly:
    He should have ended it with version 2 or 3, instead he's constantly messing with the game, breaking things, then fixing them in the next iteration while breaking some other things, then adding some new features in a basic patch, then removing them, then adding them again, etc. etc. It might not be that awful for people who have already played the game dozens of times but first timers will get the inferior experience if you ask me. He even added faggot intro into the game because one faggot asked for it...

    That's not to say that Wesp5 hasn't done some great things, because he did but he really should consider making basic patch BASIC.

    Some examples:
    And here is one of many examples where he changed something only because one person asked for it:
    And the list goes on and on...
     
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  17. Wesp5 Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Wesp5
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    That bug has been fixed in the meantime and it was already in vanilla, but only happened when you left the map or save/loaded before you sent Milligan away...

    Very funny for him to say that. Has he finished his patches in the meantime? And why do you cite him instead of coming up with issues you experienced yourself?

    Yeah, and now I have the perfect excuse to restore these lines for basic as well :)! BTW, the whole tutorial correction above was made in teamwork with somebody else.
    There are hundreds of people out there reporting issues or suggesting fixes! And most of them are not purist like some people here. If you are fine with 1.2, just play it!

    See above, there are lots of changes I made because one person reported it. Should I fix something only if I get hundreds of reports of an error?

    In that case there was no Malkavian answer, as in many others, but if you prefer your Malkavian to suddenly become sane all the time, play 1.2!
     
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  18. 502 Learned

    502
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    Who wants a three way cage match to the death between Wesp, Drog and Tessera?

    Yeah, noticed some wrong characters in the captions.
     
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  19. jackofshadows Arbiter

    jackofshadows
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    Since again, game's perfectly playable with the official 1.2 patch there's almost no point in doing that. And it is quite clear wasn't his/their actual goal all this time. AFAIK, basic/plus branches appeared only thanks to people's requests, not by initial design. So yeah, let players have one more version of the game, why not? Slightly "restored" (it's really amusing to read this word relating to the fan's game patches, can't help it) variant, close to the original but with some bug fixes and unnesessary changes as a bonus.

    Judging by some impressions like SausageInYourFace's, it's acceptable experience for the new players. Although I prefer to recommend steam version anyway and when I see how people advertise to play with basic (or better yet, plus) patch instead "to feel how the game should/could have been made" it make me wince every time. Who the fuck knows how it could have been made under the different circumstances.

    And while the plus version will continue to remain the dream project, the fan's ultimate proper fixed restored call it how you like version (just please don't lie to the new players) with the concept in mind "if it can be restored, it should be and much more".
     
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  20. JBro Savant

    JBro
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    Does anyone even like the plus version? Just fix the fucking bugs.
     
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  21. ghostdog Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    ghostdog
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    The plus version is just fine for anyone wanting some more variety in his "n"th playthrough. Wesp's constant tinkering simply gives me an excuse to fire up the game one more time.
     
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  22. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    Not every line out of a crazy's person's mouth has to be word salad or some random penguin of doom thing. :)
     
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  23. Latelistener Cipher

    Latelistener
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    Started playing with 1.2. Strangely, I remember vanilla cutscenes being more janky. Maybe the Steam version has some differences compared to the original CD release or maybe what I remember was from the earlier iterations of the unofficial patch. Also, my PC spec at the time was hardly suitable to play this game. Would love to get my hands on the original CD to compare, but I can't even find anything legit in the usual places.

    But in any case, the vanilla "buginess" is definitely exaggerated. The famous Leopold bug was fixed with the official patch 1.2.
     
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  24. S.torch Savant

    S.torch
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    Then just play your vanilla full of bugs and let people play their patched game with extra content (and the much needed shortcuts).
     
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  25. Nano Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Nano
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    Plenty of physical Bloodlines copies available on eBay for less than $10, if you're really interested.
     
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