Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Average Manatee]

Totally possible to finish You Only Die Once a Night with melee and no celerity, I did it on my Tremere run 2nd try (first try failed with 2 seconds on the clock). Just ignore the zombies coming after you, rush back and forth from gate to gate getting the ones that are hitting the gates. IIRC I had a melee around 7, bloodbuffed a few times, and used the sledgehammer. Even got grabbed once and lost several seconds.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I also finished it with my Nosferatu melee, but I only managed with heavy save/load abuse. I made several savegames at different points of the timer (sometimes just 10-20 seconds apart) and after failing the mission always reverted back to the last safe where I felt I could still win the mission by changing which gate to defend and for how long. It was a real pain in the ass.

 

[Goral]

Totally possible to finish You Only Die Once a Night with melee and no celerity, I did it on my Tremere run 2nd try (first try failed with 2 seconds on the clock). Just ignore the zombies coming after you, rush back and forth from gate to gate getting the ones that are hitting the gates. IIRC I had a melee around 7, bloodbuffed a few times, and used the sledgehammer. Even got grabbed once and lost several seconds.

You're right, just finished it with maxed melee, strength and potence in the first try.

Edit:
But I could swear it used to be much harder in vanilla. I remember having trouble with this mission even as a Brujah with these stats maxed + celerity IIRC.

 

[makiavelli747]

But I could swear it used to be much harder in vanilla. I remember having trouble with this mission even as a Brujah with these stats maxed + celerity IIRC.

Yes, I did it yesterday in vanilla with celerity 4, and it was hard)) UP+ a lot different from basic UP or vanilla.

 

[Old One]

Finished my Nosferatu run...

I enjoyed Nosferatu. The one thing I kept wondering though, was why Troika didn't simply make the Nosferatu PC models wearing hoodies. That's basically how they play, since it's actually kind of hard to get a Masquerade violation unless you get really close to civilians.

Getting 3 blood units per rat suck makes the sewers a snap.

BTW, I hope you talked to the cop in front of of the art gallery in Santa Monica after you vandalized the paintings. Otherwise you have to go back and redo that part just so you don't miss it.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Yes, I did it yesterday in vanilla with celerity 4, and it was hard)) UP+ a lot different from basic UP or vanilla.

By vanilla you mean 1.02 official version? I think I remember Wesp making the gates stronger a few years back, but only for the plus version.

 

[makiavelli747]

By vanilla you mean 1.02 official version?

1.2, but I also did it in UP basic to compare and its the same.

 

[Multidirectional]

In Wesp's plus patch it's not as OP so there's no reason to raise it above 4.

I usually never raise it past 3, I'm fine with staying invisible while crouched. Still much more powerful than Sneak and I get to max other discipline instead.

 

[Goral]

I usually never raise it past 3, I'm fine with staying invisible while crouched. Still much more powerful than Sneak and I get to max other discipline instead.

These were my end game stats as Nosferatu:



No cheats/exploits obviously (and Dexterity is +3, I have the best armour on me). I've even lost some XP along the way (there were ways to get more for the same quest and to better utilize research skill) and missed at least 1 quest and this is my super powerful build. It's mainly thanks to the fact that Nosferatu has a Cleopatra background (+1 XP for every quest giving 3 XP or more, the only downside is that you get less blood from feeding). But even as a normal Nosferatu I could have reached that level or at worst would have 1 point less in firearms.

 

[jungl]

I'm curius for those that played the vampire tabletop games. So a fledgling vamp has no way to beat werewolf no matter what rolls they get? Doesn't seem fun to me.

 

[Lambach]

I'm curius for those that played the vampire tabletop games. So a fledgling vamp has no way to beat werewolf no matter what rolls they get? Doesn't seem fun to me.

In a fair and honest 1v1 duel? No chance whatsoever. You can, in theory, make a starting Kindred character that could kill a Lupine if he/she has a weapon coated in silver + a bunch of dots in Celerity and Potence AND if you can somehow get the jump on it. But in practice, the Wolf would probably beat your Initiative roll and kill you before you can blink, because the son of a bitch will jump out of Umbra and you have no way of detecting it until it's far too late. Furthermore, you're not very likely to face a solitary Lupine because, unlike Kindred, they're not solitary creatures and tend to move in packs at least 3-4 strong. 6th or 5th Generation 1000-year-old Kindred are a different story, but you're not supposed to be playing those dustfarts anyway.

As far as the "doesn't seem fun" argument is concerned, Kindred and the Garou are vastly different species and their methods of achieving goals are likewise vastly different. Whereas the Wolves were created to be Gaia's ultimate weapon, feral, unrelenting warriors with no equal, Vampires are creatures of schemes and deceit. So while any Werewolf can rip any non-ancient Vampire to pieces in direct combat, Vampires are known for refusing to engage in direct combat as much as possible. Instead of dueling a Werewolf and getting torn to shreds, a Vampire will simply brainwash or enslave (via Blood Bond) a mayor of the city around which the said Werewolf lives and have the mayor chop down the forest and hunt down all the animals, effectively destroying the Wolf's habitat and forcing him to move elsewhere.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

In a fair and honest 1v1 duel? No chance whatsoever.

Well, I don't think a metal door trap counts as such

 

[Mozg]

P&P Werewolves were also largely an excuse to keep Vampires locked into urban areas, so the mechanics of a Vampire vs. Werewolf fight reflected that.

 

[laclongquan]

By vanilla you mean 1.02 official version?

1.2, but I also did it in UP basic to compare and its the same.

My vanila and TP runs as Ventrue, Torreador, and Malk were all in failure over that single quest, even with gunplay expert instead of melee. The gate was broken all too quickly.

 

[Goral]

My vanila and TP runs as Ventrue, Torreador, and Malk were all in failure over that single quest, even with gunplay expert instead of melee. The gate was broken all too quickly.

Toreador with celerity and guns should have been quite easy but it's doable without celerity too if you have guns. The easiest way to do it is to go here (that's my patent, although I'm sure more gamers noticed this):



Zombies can't touch you and you have a clear shot for both gates, with crouching your aim is even steadier (and at maxed guns, even without auspex you can one shot any zombie).

 

[Lhynn]

In a fair and honest 1v1 duel? No chance whatsoever. You can, in theory, make a starting Kindred character that could kill a Lupine if he/she has a weapon coated in silver + a bunch of dots in Celerity and Potence AND if you can somehow get the jump on it. But in practice, the Wolf would probably beat your Initiative roll and kill you before you can blink, because the son of a bitch will jump out of Umbra and you have no way of detecting it until it's far too late.

Or you can just dominate the stupid mutt.

 

[Lambach]

Or you can just dominate the stupid mutt.

Dominate requires direct eye contact, which is kinda hard to achieve when the mutt is chewing on your eyeballs.

 

[Lhynn]

Dominate requires direct eye contact, which is kinda hard to achieve when the mutt is chewing on your eyeballs.

When talking about combat, you have to assume neither of the contenders is a stupid retard, that a fair distance between them will be there that both will be aware of it, and that its them and them alone. Otherwise you open it to a lot of shit, like a rich vampire walking with an army of ghouls and lower generation vampires carrying automatic weapons with silver bullets, most of them ex military of some description.
If a vampire with maxed dominate or presence finds one of those rabid dogs, he simply puts a leash on them.

 

[laclongquan]

Fuck ITTTTTTTTT! Reinstall!

Goral: got that! I will try it at next run, Tremere.

 

[Lightsinthesky]

Whereas the Wolves were created to be the Wyrm's ultimate fifth column, feral unreasoning warriors with no regard for the greater scope of Gaia's plan

fixed

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Captain, the vampire vs. werewolf discussion is rapidly approaching "Bang! I shot you in the chest!" "Nuh uh, I'm wearing a bulletproof vest under my shirt" levels.

 

[Hegel]

When talking about combat, you have to assume neither of the contenders is a stupid retard, that a fair distance between them will be there that both will be aware of it, and that its them and them alone. Otherwise you open it to a lot of shit, like a rich vampire walking with an army of ghouls and lower generation vampires carrying automatic weapons with silver bullets, most of them ex military of some description.
If a vampire with maxed dominate or presence finds one of those rabid dogs, he simply puts a leash on them.

Assuming Garous are dumb hacks, which they aren't. Read Lambach's post.

 

[Old One]

I'm glad I knew nothing about PnP WoD when I first played Bloodlines. Not only was I not distracted by any infidelities to the PnP system, I felt the game introduced me to various terms and concepts of the game world in a very measured, interesting way.

I can remember when I first heard Jack ask, "Have you ever heard of...diablerie?"

And, as a first-time player I was thinking, "No, I haven't! Diablerie!? What the hell is that!?"

 

[pippin]

All things considered, I think Troika pretty much nailed the way to properly adapt pnp systems into video game form.
DnD is actually a set of tools more than stories or stuff like that. Their game reflected that, so much, that it's practically a 1:1 adaptation of the module.
Bloodlines is more story-heavy because Vampire actively encourages larping. Not only roleplaying with stats and shit like that, or, as I understand it, the larping is almost a mechanic. So that's why the game has so many colorful characters, and in the end you end up forgiving the inaccuracies. It truly feels like a homemade campaign rather than just a piece of merchandise.

 

[Hegel]

There's the problem that the player character becomes too powerful too soon, but for convenience you could speculate you were embraced by Cain (the taxi driver's audio is named Cain.mp3) or some other low generation elder. You fight a 7th generation vampire (possibly two, if we count the Tzimisce in the hotel). Keep in mind that the last time I've played tabletop was almost two decades ago, so my infos might be inaccurate.