Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[agris]

Oh, I wasn't the only one missing the ghosts!

I think Troika at least had some internal testing to see how many people would see the ghost vs. how many would miss it, and made a call based on statistics.

Come on Bester, I know you don't live in a basement. That's not how game development works. It isn't a graphics card architecture or an OS, it's the length of time a non-critical NPC appears on screen.

 

[Prime Junta]

Oh, I wasn't the only one missing the ghosts!

I think Troika at least had some internal testing to see how many people would see the ghost vs. how many would miss it, and made a call based on statistics. Also to take into account the fact that missing the ghost is not as bad as seeing the ghost for a long period of time.
You on the other hand just dismiss everyone who sees the ghost before you do, and tell them to gtfo.

You have some very strange ideas about how software is produced in the real world.

A/B testing is expensive and time-consuming. If you use it at all, you use it for the most critical bits: the ones the largest number of users interact with first (because first impressions are really important), and most frequently (duh). It's never done for a one-off event. You'd go bankrupt before you got close to releasing.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

That's not how game development works.

Uh, what? It does work exactly this way. This cutscene was part of level design (which is a lengthy text document), it was intentional that it should appear for a very brief duration (approximate values specified in the document), because it gives a jump scare (as explained in the document). They obviously tested different values before leaving this one in.

 

[Prime Junta]

That's not how game development works.

Uh, what? It does work exactly this way. This cutscene was part of level design (which is a lengthy text document), it was intentional that it should appear for a very brief duration (approximate values specified in the document), because it gives a jump scare (as explained in the document). They obviously tested different values before leaving this one in.

You don't do A/B testing on minor features. You take a best guess and go with it, and then act on feedback from QA or end users if and when you get it, assuming higher priorities don't keep kicking it down the list.

We all know what state VtM:B was on release. Adjusting the duration of a transient FX will have been very, very, VERY low on anyone's list of priorities.

 

[gaussgunner]

And even in that sorry state, the Ocean House level was a huge hit.

 

[Wesp5]

This cutscene was part of level design (which is a lengthy text document), it was intentional that it should appear for a very brief duration (approximate values specified in the document), because it gives a jump scare (as explained in the document).

I would very much like to have a look at that document. Do you have a link or can you update it somewhere?

 

[Delterius]

I think Troika at least had some internal testing

"Guys, I have bad news. Activision wants us to release the game on christmas."

"Don't worry Tim, we finally finished our university grade statistical research with 1000 volunteers based on how many people noticed this half a second 2spooky4me special effect!"

 

[laclongquan]

This conversation illustrate VERY well my beef with Wesp's so-called patch.

If he's honest from beginning and call it mod or something I wouldnt hold it against him. Man should have hobby and fix game follow his own vision, fuck dev's, should be a fine thing to do. God know I intentionally break some game's intention in my days.

But to lure players in with the monicker "Patch", even if "Unofficial Patch"...

It just stuck in my craws.

 

[Drax]

You guys may be overreacting a little.

 

[laclongquan]

Not really. This is just a delayed reaction from Codex toward Wesp. It is my opinion that he should have got it coming waaaaaay earlier. Like, years ago.

 

[Delterius]

Yeah, I never expected Drog and Wesp to join forces and continue to improve on the best and probably only Bloodlines patch out there.

 

[SCO]

Shit-stirrers will stir shit on the fishbowl. Don't even care. laclongquan and his bizarre habit of misleading stupid people to use the 'True' (pervert) patch can fuck off. Maybe he's one of those people that tried to pay when that guy tried to sell 'his' fanpatch.

 

[Delterius]

But I thought Tessera himself forbade people from playing the patch he didn't make?

 

[Drax]

 

[Wesp5]

But to lure players in with the monicker "Patch", even if "Unofficial Patch"...

Just to make this clear once again: The Unofficial Patch was started by Dan Upright and not myself.
Dan restored the most powerful firearm of the game, the SWAT rifle, in his first patch version.
Dan gave the lockpick and everything else found in the tutorial for free if you skipped it.
I thought all this was usual for an Unofficial Patch as I never created one before.
I continued in this spirit until the "purists" appeared and stole my patch.
I added the basic patch but it was too late to change the name.
Today it would probably be called a Restoration Project.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

But to lure players in with the monicker "Patch", even if "Unofficial Patch"...

Just to make this clear once again: The Unofficial Patch was started by Dan Upright and not myself.
Dan restored the most powerful firearm of the game, the SWAT rifle, in his first patch version.
Dan gave the lockpick and everything else found in the tutorial for free if you skipped it.
I thought all this was usual for an Unofficial Patch as I never created one before.
I continued in this spirit until the "purists" appeared and stole my patch.
I added the basic patch but it was too late to change the name.
Today it would probably be called a Restoration Project.

I like how each line is shorter than the last.

 

[Drax]

Indeed.
I tend to agree.
We're in agreement.

 

[Murk]

That's the hull of the explanation boat.

 

[laclongquan]

Wesp is recognized as the current owner and primary driver of that project. You take the praise AND the blame.

Same deal as Tessera. he's not the only one behind his True Patch. But as he's the primary driver and recognized owner, he take both the praise (little though it was) AND the blame.

Tessera himself? A prima donna of a modder with big ego. We at Codex has no familiarity with such a character.
...
..
.
Oh wait.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Just finished this for the first time ever, using the Unofficial Patch Plus.

Coming to the game 13 years late with fresh eyes, there were things that felt surprisingly contemporary in both good and bad ways. Everything about the presentation still holds up today - the writing and voice acting are still better than most RPGs. Even with the hype I didn't expect this level of quality from an early 2000s game with full voice acting. Characters are funny, likeable, hateable, they have real personality and they're almost all memorable. The Anarchs and the Camarilla were both factions that I could sympathize with to some degree. I ended up siding with LaCroix, but I like that there wasn't a clear good or evil side.

What surprised me in a bad way was how dumbed-down the gameplay felt. Combat is the worst. I played a gangrel and specialized in melee weapons, and never had the need or a good opportunity to use any of my disciplines besides Blood Heal. Every fight was more or less the same, just left-click until all the enemies were dead. Most of the combat is stupifyingly easy and then there are random intense difficulty spikes like those twin chinese melee bosses that seemed nearly impossible without cheesing. Some of the setpiece battles were cool ideas, like the vampire hunter, but there's just not enough to the combat to make it work.

It seems like the game is trying to do the Deus Ex thing with all the different approaches you can take to situations, ie combat, stealth, dialogue... but very few quests give you many different options. I liked the stealth sequence on the boat and in the museum, but those are rare areas that are obviously built to be stealthed. After that it's back to endless corridor dungeons where you have to fight or run past every enemy. That said, I did appreciate the variety that was there. Even though the game systems are not well integrated, there are novelties like the haunted hotel that keep things interesting. Unfortunately these seem to mostly disapprear after the first half of the game.

The progression system also seemed undercooked. I ended up maxing out my shapeshifting ability, but the katana was good enough in nearly every close-ranged situation that I never bothered shapeshifting. I abandoned most of the social and utility skills once it was clear that the game was going to force me through long combat slogs either way. I was surprised that I didn't learn any new disciplines throughout the game. Not to force the Deus Ex comparison, but I expected to get new tools to play around with, but instead the gameplay is pretty much static all the way through.

Given some of the mainline quests tend to drag, especially in the second half, it's nice how many high quality side quests there are. These benefit from having more NPC interaction, and not being padded with endless combats. Most of them are pretty simple, but dialogues and exploring the inhabited part of the city is always a treat.

Overall I did enjoy it for the story and atmosphere. I feel like there was probably stuff I missed due to my clan and faction choices, but I'm not sure if I would give it another playthrough knowing how much annoying filler there is.

 

[ManjuShri]

but I'm not sure if I would give it another playthrough knowing how much annoying filler there is.

Definitely at least give Malkavian a shot; obfuscation also will let you run through areas with no trouble.

 

[Storyfag]

I played a gangrel and specialized in melee weapons, and never had the need or a good opportunity to use any of my disciplines besides Blood Heal.

I'm not sure if I would give it another playthrough knowing how much annoying filler there is.

See, using Disciplines helps with making that filler not bothersome. As Gangrel, you should have tried Animalism (also, each level is a different "spell", providing the different tools you longed for).

 

[Old One]

That's true. Your approach to the "filler" can be rather different depending on which disciplines you utilize.

Also, unless you use a guide, you will miss a lot of content in your first playthrough.

In my first game...

Spoiler

...I never even found Heather Poe!

It's true about the later parts of the game being way too combat oriented, but on the other hand you can get through that stuff pretty damned fast once you know it's coming. I blitz through the sewers in a matter of minutes if I play now.

 

[AN4RCHID]

See, using Disciplines helps with making that filler not bothersome. As Gangrel, you should have tried Animalism (also, each level is a different "spell", providing the different tools you longed for).

Yeah, reading from the wiki that does look cool. I didn't upgrade it because I didn't ever find a use for the ravens, and Protean seemed more promising.

 

[Ash]

What surprised me in a bad way was how dumbed-down the gameplay felt.

VTM:B would be fucking GOAT tier if it had good gameplay. Nearly everything about it is just perfect, except the gameplay. Such a shame.