Rift / Vive / VR General

[Dexter]

better headstraps are something I will definitely buy when they come out.

This is already out for the Vive, unfortunately HTC has decided that they want $99/€120 for this small "Feature Upgrade" alone: https://www.vive.com/us/vive-deluxe-audio-strap/

One of the annoyances of the Vive was that qualitatively it had worse product design than the Oculus Rift and especially for the goal of moving around in a room constantly, it got really annoying that it didn't sit firmly e.g. when trying to play VR Minigolf and looking up/down or whatnot or during heavy arcade shooting sessions it easily slips a bit or shifts away from the soft-spot viewing angle and gets blurry. Another annoying thing about it was having to put on the HMD first and headphones second, having to deal with tangled wires and whatnot. The "Deluxe Audio Strap" supposedly fixes both of those things, I'm going to get one soon.

Unfortunately this makes it a $900/€1020 buy + shipping if you want the full product and sets it far outside of the usual price range of most people, while the Oculus Rift actually includes all of this out-of-the-box for only $400 now with both the HMD and Touch Controllers being more refined, which is why it's a good alternative after the release of Touch and price cut despite everything, and with a third camera it can even simulate room-scale for much cheaper and on top of that will be natively compatible (as opposed to having to use ReVive) with all the Software from both the Oculus/Facebook Store and SteamVR/Valve for people that care about those "Exclusives", since Facebook is engaging in that practice while Valve isn't.

There's also a third party Add-On called "TPCast" by the Chinese available in certain regions effectively making the Vive Wireless by embedding a 60Ghz Wireless receiver on the HMD, which is likely how LG and other upcoming HMDs will make their products Wireless too: https://uploadvr.com/tpcast-wireless-vive-kit-works/

 

[Heresiarch]

I didn't know the headstrap is out. But holyshit in EU it's 135 EUR including shipping. That's kind of insane.

 

[Potato Canon]

Deluxe Audio Strap is worth every penny. Makes the whole thing a lot more comfortable and easier to quickly adjust to different users. And the audio isn't bad either, no more earbuds popping out at the worst moment. It's criminal that it isn't being included with current Vives though. Overpriced maybe, but I don't see how anyone would regret it if they are already invested in a Vive and are planning on sticking with it a while.

Also I cannot wait for TPCast, not sure what the holdup is getting it to the states.

 

[Dexter]

HTC Vive dropped their price from $799 to $599: https://www.roadtovr.com/htc-vive-price-cut-2017-discount-sale-600/

It's a good start for getting competitive again, but they probably need to drop another $100 to actually compete with Oculus' $399. Maybe when LG drops their Kit on the market.

 

[Dexter]

Some cool recent Sci-Fi shit:

 

[Dexter]

There's more movement in the VR market, Microsoft enters the market by partnering with ASUS, Acer, Dell, HP and Lenovo each producing their own HMDs based on Microsoft's design and supposed to release later this year at prices between $300 (Acer), $350 (Dell, HP) to $450 (ASUS). They for some inexplicable reason dubbed them "Windows Mixed Reality" (because according to the Marketing genius behind this "everything in the real world" you interact with in VR e.g. even the ground you walk on makes it "Mixed Reality"), they come with 1440x1440 LCD displays and "flip-up visors" and of course with their own proprietary API Microsoft has dubbed "DirectR":

This is how their current "Mixed Reality OS Prototype" looks like:



The tracking on these doesn't work with cameras (Oculus) or Lighthouse (HTC Vive), but via two Sensors at the front of the HMD that "Scan" the room and sense obstacles via Markerless Inside out tracking. They are also supposed to work with SteamVR shortly after release and so far they Demo them mainly on Laptops with things like Space Pirate Trainer, SUPERHOT or Arizona Sunshine and similar.

These are the Controllers they'll release most likely inspired by the HTC Vive, there's talks about whether it'll be complicated or not to accurately track them anywhere outside the FoV of the two Inside out tracking sensors on the HMD:

As such it looks like the new API war on the Horizon could be between Valve and partners (HTC, LG and any supported), Facebook and partners (mainly Samsung) finding themselves together in a Khronos working group for the OpenXR Standard: https://www.khronos.org/openxr Versus Microsoft and their partners (ASUS, Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo etc.) with their DirectR Standard.

 

[Jigawatt]

They for some inexplicable reason dubbed them "Mixed Reality"

This is a perfectly standard term in the research field (see here) and is probably so named because, like the Hololens, the SLAM model will be available to developers so you can base what is shown in the HMD on the environment. Combine this with access to the colour feeds on the cameras and you could do some pretty neat stuff, ex:



Edit: if you're crazy enough to care how that particular implementation works, abstract and paper: http://www.liors.net/reality-skins

 

[Dexter]

They for some inexplicable reason dubbed them "Mixed Reality"

This is a perfectly standard term in the research field (see here) and is probably so named because, like the Hololens, the SLAM model will be available to developers so you can base what is shown in the HMD on the environment. Combine this with access to the colour feeds on the cameras and you could do some pretty neat stuff

Afaik and from my limited experience with these they don't have color cameras in front (if they did and they'd inject a camera-feed of said into the headset it would at least kind of make sense, since it'd be a mix of VR and AR), but they basically function like the Oculus Rift/HTC Vive only instead of Cameras/Lighthouse they used these depth sensors which is a bit confusing since they afaik used that term for the HoloLens too:


So far I haven't seen any usability for these that were different from the Vive or Rift, both the "Windows MR Home" thing and the Apps they showed off were entirely VR. They might come up with an idea that includes objects/obstacles but they haven't shown off anything like that.

The German Tech magazine c't actually asked them wtf they are talking about, and this was their explanation: http://archive.is/7rsLg#selection-4055.119-4157.193

According to Sullivan, headsets such as Oculus Rift , HTC Vive , Playstation VR and Windows MR are also not pure VR headsets, because the position-tracking elements of the real world are integrated. For example, the headsets know where the (real) floor is. According to Sullivan's definition, this is enough for mixed reality. Headsets that only record head rotation and inclination (Gear VR, Daydream, Cardboard) are not in the mixed reality spectrum according to the Microsoft definition, so they are pure VR glasses.

 

[Santander02]

Too expensive considering the technology has not developed enough and has no actual "games", just tech demos masquerading as games. Might take the plunge when CV2 or 3 of the headsets roll out though.

 

[Dexter]

Oculus Connect is going on, they announced a Mobile version for $200 they labeled "Oculus Go" (essentially a Samsung GearVR but without needing a Mobile phone), an Upcoming prototype they are working on as a Wireless Standalone HMD with Inside-Out Tracking like Microsoft and new Software Updates:





No new High-End PC HMD as expected, although they lowered the price of the Oculus Rift + Touch Bundle permanently to $399, managing to out-price the HTC Vive again by $200.

Carmack is supposed to hold a 2 hour Keynote tomorrow:


Controllers (Windows MR, Oculus Touch, Vive Wand, PS Move, Steam Knuckle):

 

[Dexter]

HTC Announced VIVE Pro at CES: https://www.vive.com/us/product/vive-pro/

- 2880 x 1600 resolution, Dual AMOLED screens
- Improved Optics
- Dual Forward facing cameras
- Onboard amplifier for audio
- Integrated audio, headphones claimed to be Hi-Fi
- Second Microphone for Noise Cancellation
- New Headstrap:

- Lighthouse 2.0 (10x10m, up to 4 base stations), Lighthouse 1.0 compatible:

- Wireless Adapter in Summer 2018 for Vive or Vive Pro using Intel WiGig 60GHz:

Available Q1 as an "Upgrade" without Base stations/Controllers and later this year with Lighthouse 2.0 and new Controllers.

 

[anvi]

The hardware is shit. The new Vive due sometime this year sounds much better because it gets rid of the screen door blurry shitness, and it is also going to be wireless which it should have been to begin with. However, even that version is no good because of the lame field of view. Also all the VR games are crappy ipad standard games that only a dimwit would ever play. If you want to chop fruit, get a job.

That said, I will buy the version 3 in a few years when it is finally good resolution, light weight, wireless, has a graphics card that can run it for less than a grand, and there are some games that aren't casual crap.

 

[Dexter]

Not really convinced so far with Vive Wireless Adapter:


Shooting/gun system for a Shooter being worked on by the developers of Hover Junkers and Duck Season:


Btw. the first major RTS that actually works well in VR and is fun by Hidden Path Entertainment, the guys that made Defense Grid and Age of Empire II HD, been playing through the campaign:

 

[Dexter]

tl;dw: Slightly better pixel resolution, mostly noticeable when watching like movies or doing web stuff, less screen door but not enough of an improvement to warrant an upgrade or the asking price, wait for proper V2

 

[lophiaspis]

Btw. the first major RTS that actually works well in VR and is fun by Hidden Path Entertainment, the guys that made Defense Grid and Age of Empire II HD, been playing through the campaign:

That looks like it has the kernel of a really good game, but I'm put off by the fact you seem to literally be playing a steampunk toy soldier boardgame in the game as well as the apparent gameyness of the simulation. It would be a lot more attractive to me if the players were presented as two Gods fighting over an island, building up power from their worshippers to cast spells and influence the world in other ways (physics, weather simulation etc) without the overt RTS style micromanagement of buildings and units.

Is there any good Black and White style godgame out for VR yet?

 

[Dexter]

That looks like it has the kernel of a really good game

It was fun for the time I played it, also came with CoOp and Versus Mode where you either cooperate with a player against a stronger AI or can battle other players.

Is there any good Black and White style godgame out for VR yet?

This is afaik the closest thing I can think of:



And maybe this:


There seem to have also been various other "attempts" by amateurs, but nothing else good yet:

 

[Dexter]

New "Oculus Studios" game:


$10k treadmill they apparently also used in Ready Player One that might find its way to arcades or the likes:

 

[Dexter]

Just stumbled upon this from a year ago, some interesting stuff in there, wonder if they're still on track with the software. Maybe they'll release something along with the new Steam Knuckle Controllers this summer?


Also of interest: https://www.blurbusters.com/google-and-lg-creates-vr-amoled-120-hz-at-5500x3000/

Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000
Posted Mar 14, 2018 by Chief Blur Buster in: VR

An amazing virtual reality OLED display under development by Google and LG has some downright impressive specifications:

• 4.3 inch 18 megapixel AMOLED display
• 5500 x 3000 resolution
• 1443 dots per inch
• 120 Hz refresh rate

Previous OLEDs were only 600 dpi, and this is twice the resolution of the HTC VIVE Pro.

Google made a large nearly-billion-dollar investment in LG to secure a supply of OLEDs for their Pixel phones, and it appears that this co-operation also extended to VR OLED displays. They will be showing this VR display at Display Week 2018 expo in May.

Being an OLED, it is anticipated that it will likely have a low-persistence mode similar to HTC Vive and Oculus Rift, to eliminate OLED motion blur.

We look forward to seeing VR headsets containing this display!

In the long term, we expect Frame Rate Amplification Technologies (FRAT) to eventually solve the GPU-side problem of driving high frame rates on high resolution displays. This is covered near the end of Blur Busters Law: The Amazing Journey to 1000 Hz Displays which VR scientists agree with.

Also learned about this games existence, but apparently for some reason it is a GearVR Exclusive:

 

[Dexter]

>"VR Spring Sale" on Steam: http://store.steampowered.com/sale/vrspringsale/
>Most games -10-25% Off...

 

[Perkel]

Honestly i can see Velve releasing Half Life 3 as an exclusive for VR. So you would need to buy VR to play it and there would be no 2D version.

They did same stuff with Half Life 2 as you couldn't play it outside of Steam and back then Half Life 2 was only steam game and most of people including me had crappy barely working internet.

I was using PSVR for PC mostly but today i bought VIVE so i can join master-race:

Best game for vive controlers that isn't "experience" (hate those) ?

 

[Perkel]

My god !

Just tried Google Earth VR. I tried it before on PSVR but it didn't want to switch on without vive controllers so now that i have VIVe i finally tried it. Honestly speaking this is one of the coolest things i have ever seen.


Impressions about HTC VIVE coming from PSVR (on pc/ps4) after about 5 hours:

CONS:
- Screen door effect is worse on vive than on PSVR. PSVR despite lower resolution has slight advantage when you look at distant stuff as it heavy rallies on screen door effect size.
- fresnel lenses give this weird lens flare effect that was absent on PSVR (PSVR doesn't use fresnel lenses)
- htc vive front looks very pro but those straps look like cost 5$ @ mcdonalds and it is less comfortable than PSVR, lack of front adjustement though it is not big issue for me as i don't wear glasses.
- heavy cable, compared to PSVR this cable feels like is good deal heavier and more rigid.

PROS:
- While screen door effect is more noticeable, there is absolutely no any movement blur or ghosting i experienced with PSVR. PSVR with fast movement produced very noticeable ghosting on high contrast areas.
- Fresnel lenses give you clarity at edges, when you with your eyes at sides of screen you can see noticeable blurring, it isn't huge issue but fresnel imho is better.
- Positional tracking is awesome ! IT is suuuper precise.
- IT has slight advantage in resolution despite higher res. I think it is due to screen door effect.
- Controlers are freaking great. I expected some cheap plastic vibrators and i got very precise instruments. Haptic feedback is really fucking great and i didn't expect that touchpad could ever replace analog for movement and yet it did and feels wonderful out of the box.
- Plug and Play, Unlike PSVR once you set it up it just works.
- Way better performance than PSVR on PC (or PS4 for that matter). PSVR software for PC didn't support a lot of cheats VR use so it had to rely on brunt force. I have gtx980 and don't have any fps issues at all. Most of games run at 90hz no problem (those from steam) while those with Vorpx also don't seem to have much problems.
- Base stations installation was painless, some duct tape and it works like a dream and tracks everything really well.

So far room vr and standing Vr is kind of shit. I don't see a reason why looking or changing view can't be on controllers. Some games even require standing VR or Room vr which is kind of annoying as i am lazy fuck and i don't want to stand like idiot or walk around in room when i could just lie down on bed with my head looking at ceiling.

Next i will probably try Serious Sam FE, i loved that game back in the day.

 

[Shackleton]

How strange that this thread re-surfaces today, when I finally take the plunge and order a Rift.

Been thinking about it for a while and just thought, why not? Price has been steady at £399 for a while and overclockers have £75 of oculus credit until tomorrow so pulled the trigger. Just spent a couple of hours setting up my wheel on Project Cars and racing round for a bit in readiness for headset coming tomorrow. Tagged thread as /relevant to my interests.

 

[Perkel]

Try google earth VR on steam. It is fucking fantastic. You might consider bying VorpX for 30$ for non VR games to be converted to VR, just look at game list before and look for threads about game to see if it works ok. There are a lot of supported games but a lot of those G3Z ones (who provide real 3D) have issues. All betsheda games works great and Fallout New Vegas is joy to play. Dragon's Dogma also works great (though it has slight shadows issues)

Yeah i also use it on Thrustmaster T300RS though i am yet to try it with HTC vive, i played before on PSVR and it was fantastic.

Also for everyone interested in VR. IF you have good place to sell electronics like i have in poland you can basically play for half a yer or more for basically free (or even earn if you are lucky).

$ = 3,77zl
I bought PSVR a year ago for 1350, then i sold it after half a year for 1300 then i rebought it 3 weeks ago for 600 and sold it 2 days ago for 750. So basically for my 7months of use i earned 25$. If you don't have good place to sell blame you miserable nation.

 

[Puteo]

How strange that this thread re-surfaces today, when I finally take the plunge and order a Rift.

Been thinking about it for a while and just thought, why not? Price has been steady at £399 for a while and overclockers have £75 of oculus credit until tomorrow so pulled the trigger. Just spent a couple of hours setting up my wheel on Project Cars and racing round for a bit in readiness for headset coming tomorrow. Tagged thread as /relevant to my interests.

You picked a good time, one of the most hotly anticipated VR games, Budget Cuts, is launching this Thursday.

 

[Dexter]

Honestly i can see Velve releasing Half Life 3 as an exclusive for VR. So you would need to buy VR to play it and there would be no 2D version.

- Half Life 3 isn't in production
- If it was they wouldn't limit their audience like that to VR, in fact they released their Half Life games to consoles too back in the day because they wanted that market
- They aren't that set on VR overall, which is why they aren't producing and marketing the hardware themselves (aside from offering the Lighthouse system to prospective hardware manufacturers like HTC or possibly LG soon), they're basically handling it like the "Steam Machines" where they don't hold any of the business risks of said initiative on the hardware side and can offload those on third parties, but get to control the profitable software market
- That said, they are still very much working on multiple VR games and others projects:

- fresnel lenses give this weird lens flare effect that was absent on PSVR (PSVR doesn't use fresnel lenses)
- htc vive front looks very pro but those straps look like cost 5$ @ mcdonalds and it is less comfortable than PSVR, lack of front adjustement though it is not big issue for me as i don't wear glasses.

- Controlers are freaking great. I expected some cheap plastic vibrators and i got very precise instruments. Haptic feedback is really fucking great and i didn't expect that touchpad could ever replace analog for movement and yet it did and feels wonderful out of the box.

Top two are definitely downsides of the Vive, I have no idea why both Oculus and HTC decided to go with Fresnel instead of other solutions they even had in their Developer Kits for the final versions, glare/lens-flare can be quite annoying and the sweet spot for the eyes is smaller. The good news is apparently that even the Oculus Go, which is basically a "Mobile" VR version mainly used for watching media and low quality 3D stuff that just came out is supposed to have much better lenses with barely noticeable screen door and they'll likely be much better in the Next-Gen version of their Kits somewhere around 2020.

Also regarding the Vive, if you want it to stop shifting/slipping on your face while you do great acrobatic feats or do shit like golfing or shooting all around you and want to avoid the effort of having to put headphones on after putting the HMD on you'll have to buy the "Deluxe Audio Strap" detailed at the top of this page, it's one of the reasons why the Rift is generally considered a more "complete" product out-of-the-box.

Regarding the Controllers, they're pretty good but the Oculus Touch Controllers are also better, a lot more ergonomic and sit in your hands perfectly, have finger tracking that kind of works and they also have thumbsticks like on controllers you can move around with (since Oculus doesn't generally offer "Roomscale"):



This might change whenever Valve decides to put their Knuckles Controllers they've supposedly been working on for over 2 years out on market, although there hasn't been much news as to their fate lately: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/8a4v9g/its_been_almost_two_years_where_are_the_knuckles/

Btw. if you want to play Oculus "Exclusive" games and stuff on your Vive, check out Revive: https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive