Rift / Vive / VR General

[Venser]

 

[Doktor Best]

So this kid has sent his aspie brain into overcharge in order to fasttrack being able to touch anime boobs in vrchat with self engineered vrgloves that can be built for 22 bucks.

Pretty impressive if you ask me.

 

[Venser]

 

[Venser]

Steam rejects VR sex experience Holodexxx
By Jody Macgregor 1 day ago

Developers remain confused about Valve's rules regarding adult content

"The future of adult entertainment is photo-realistic adult stars in virtual reality" according to the developer of Holodexxx, which takes scanned 3D models based on adult film stars "and brings them to life using the latest in chatbot technology." As Holodexxx's developer explained in a recent blog post, after being rejected three times over the last year they have given up on trying to sell their vision of the "future of adult entertainment" on Steam.

First, Holodexxx submitted a nudity-free "PG-13 experience” in which a virtual model of actor Riley Reid "performs a sensual dance" while a video of other scanned models dancing played in the background. It was rejected with "a boiler-plate explanation that video pornography was not allowed on Steam". Next, Holodexxx submitted Meet Marley, which gave users the opportunity to inspect a naked 3D model based on adult performer Marley Brinx. After that was rejected, they asked Valve's submissions team for further explanation, requesting "a brief outline of what would be allowed on Steam, considering our content". They did not receive one, instead being told that Valve "will judge our next app when they receive it."


rejected an application for pickup-artist training tool Super Seducer 3 to be sold on Steam, telling its creator "Steam does not ship sexually explicit images of real people". Holodexxx's developer has assumed their products fell foul of the same rule, saying, "Our hunch is that Steam does not like the idea of nude models based on photogrammetry scans, but for their own reasons, are not willing to declare it."

However, games like House Party have added real people without being removed. YouTuber and model LetyDoesStuff was added to the cast of House Party two years ago, and it remains available for sale on Steam today.

Valve has avoided nailing down or explaining its decisions with regards to adult content, which has resulted in confusion among developers. Games like Memoirs of a Battle Brothel, an RPG that contains sex scenes, make it onto Steam without complaint, as do a legion of hentai puzzle games, but Holodexxx's virtual sex apparently go too far.

Steam's official rules and guidelines do contain a list of things that shouldn't be published on the storefront. That list currently includes "Sexually explicit images of real people" as well as "Video content not directly related to a product that has shipped on Steam" and "Non-interactive 360 VR Videos". A look at the same page using the Wayback Machine shows these rules were added last year. They appear in a snapshot of the page from November, but the same page in October mentioned none of those things, though it did list the one-word entry "Pornography".

As Holodexxx's developer explains, "After another back and forth with the review team, we were no closer to understanding what Steam’s policy was when it came to ‘pornography’ or even how they define pornography. The gist of it was that reviewers ‘knew pornography when they saw it,’ and would not further define the nature of their decision making process."

Holodexxx software remains available for sale on itch.io, along with plenty of other products of the kind that saw it recently referred to as being filled with "offensive and sexualized content" by a lawyer representing Apple.

We've reached out to Valve for a clarification on Holodexxx's rejection, and will update if we receive a reply.

https://www.pcgamer.com/steam-rejects-vr-sex-experience-holodexxx/

And here's pretty interesting blog post from the developers of the said game:

THE STEAM DANCE

INTRO

I’ll break the bad news up front. Holodexxx was rejected three times from the Steam marketplace. We’re disappointed, of course, but rather than dwell on the negative, let’s make some lemonade out of these lemons and help other adult developers avoid making the same mistakes that we did.

Here’s what we learned about our journey with Steam, and where (we think) the Steam submission process could improve.

First, a bit of background. Holodexxx is an adult game studio that creates unique experiences with photo-real adult stars. We focus heavily on realism, and dynamically generated facial animation to create a sense of connection between our characters and the Player. We’re not shying away from the raw sexuality inherent in displaying an accurate replica of the human body, and our experiences will only become more explicit in the future.

Virtual sex is great, and we unabashedly create pro-lewd content.

Last year, we experienced a major boost to morale when Steam announced that they would allow “adult content” on Steam, and take a hands off approach to moderation on the platform. This announcement led us to believe that Holodexxx would have access to Steam’s global marketplace; which would make the project (and our studio) much more financially viable. We doubled down on our efforts, energized by the opportunity to offer Holodexxx to millions of VR enthusiasts.

In the last year we have launched three early demos, and two episodes of our first story -- Holodexxx Home. We were lucky enough to find a home on a few platforms that truly welcome adult content, and have been growing on Patreon. Once we developed a solid foundation of fans and content, we began our awkward (and ultimately sad) tango with Steam.

THE STEAM DANCE
Initially, we submitted a PG-13 experience where our Riley Reid virtual model performs a sensual dance for the Player in VR. Our model was dressed in a bra and panties, with a video teaser of our other Holodexxx models dancing in the background -- completely censored. We assumed that zero nudity in the submission would guarantee us approval with Steam.

After a week of creating assets for the storefront, and censoring a build for Steam, our app was banned with a boiler-plate explanation that video pornography was not allowed on Steam. We did not have video pornography in our submission. We figured that a censored video of live action adult stars was the culprit, even though those adult stars were heavily censored.

Possible lesson learned: No video content of live adult stars on Steam?

Next, we submitted Meet Marley; an extremely basic experience which allows the Player to inspect our Marley Brinx digital character in a virtual environment. After a week of creating assets for the storefront, we were banned again with a boiler-plate explanation that pornography was not allowed on Steam. This time, we did not have any video content in our submission.

After this latest rejection, we asked for clarification as to why the app was banned, and received no help understanding what made our experience “pornography.” We asked the submissions team for a brief outline of what would be allowed on Steam, considering our content -- but they simply replied that they will judge our next app when they receive it.

Left to our own devices, we put our heads together and came to the conclusion that Valve needed to see other content surrounding the sexual moments in our games. Maybe, “pornography,” as defined by the submissions team, is an experience that revolves exclusively around sexual content.

Possible lesson learned: Adult content on Steam requires story/gameplay.

We spent months fleshing out our dialog systems, and our first set of interactions for Holodexxx Home. The Player could talk to Lady Euphoria (a fictional character, based off of some scans of Marley Brinx) through a series of chatbot dialog encounters, undress Euphoria, and play with her via simple physical interactions. Euphoria is undressed by the Player through a series of VR interactions, and teases herself to a climax. Running roughly 10 minutes in length, the truly “adult” content makes up a small percentage of the experience.

We submitted Home, and waited a few weeks. After poking Steam via help tickets, our build was reviewed two days later.. and banned. The explanation was again, that Steam does not allow “pornography” on their platform.

Possible lesson learned: None, we’re super confused.

WHAT IS PORNOGRAPHY TO STEAM?
After another back and forth with the review team, we were no closer to understanding what Steam’s policy was when it came to “pornography” or even how they define pornography. The gist of it was that reviewers “knew pornography when they saw it,” and would not further define the nature of their decision making process.

Our hunch is that Steam does not like the idea of nude models based on photogrammetry scans, but for their own reasons, are not willing to declare it. At the very least, Steam does not approve of adult performers in virtual form -- which is a truly bizarre line to draw.

We have arrived at this conclusion by identifying which facet of our submitted experiences was the common denominator.

• Submission #1: Sneak Peak: No nudity, but did include heavily censored video
  
  
• Submission #2: Meet Marley: Nudity of a digital character, but no video
  
  
• Submission #3: Holodexxx Home: Nudity, and a heavy focus on dialog and gameplay

It seems like the common denominator for all of our submissions was the inclusion of adult entertainers -- both clothed, and unclothed.

The questions surrounding this issue are numerous, and worth exploring. If a 3D artist recreated a virtual adult performer from scratch, utilizing traditional 3d modeling and texturing not obtained through photogrammetry, is that acceptable? If we stylized our adult star characters, but kept their identities intact, would that trigger the same repulsion from Steam?

Most interestingly, can Riley Reid appear in a realistic, and sexual game like Cyberpunk 2040 if they show her breasts? Can she be in any game, at all?

Are my hopes for a Mia Malkova pinball game dashed?

The truth is, Steam will not answer these questions, or any other questions regarding their stance on pornography, or photogrammetry. By not releasing guidelines around adult content, Steam makes submissions needlessly risky.

OUR MISTAKES
1) BELIEVING THAT GAMES ON STEAM SET A PRECEDENT FOR FUTURE SUBMISSIONS.
Steam is already chock full of exposed genitals, and content that is much more sexually explicit than Holodexxx, so we did not expect to be rejected on the basis that our experiences were too “sexual” in that way. (We would cite examples of extremely lewd content, but we are not going to put a target on another dev’s Steam release. We all know that genitals exist on steam. You can find them on your own.)

There are experiences on Steam that are thinly veiled delivery systems for 2D pornography (think “Mindsweeper covering a nude image” thin) so we expected Steam’s bar for “pornography” to be quite low.

Our photogrammetry scans were our main concern. Camasutra, an experience that uses similar photogrammetry technology as Holodexxx, had their app in “Ready to Launch” status for over a year. This status meant that Camasutra had their storefront, and build approved by the Steam submissions team.

Steam retroactively banned Camasutra’s app upon review of Holodexxx. According to Steam Spy, after a year of being in “Ready to Launch'' status, the Camasutra app was banned three hours before Holodexxx Home was rejected by the Steam moderation team.

Clearly, precedence does not set a standard for Steam’s review team; in fact, it seems that new rules will be retroactively applied to previously acceptable submissions.

2) BEING UPFRONT WITH STEAM
As we know, many adult experiences offer day 1 patches for their Steam games. Those patches allow for experiences to easily get by Steam’s censors, and bypass the safeguards in place that keep “questionable” content off of their platform.

We made the decision early on that we would always be honest about what we are building, and not shy away from the reality of our explicit intent. The reality is that Steam will not reward you for honesty. Maybe we should have joined the illustrious ranks of games uncensored via an external patch.

3) SUBMITTING EXPERIENCES AS A FORM OF EXPERIMENTATION
We thought that if we submitted multiple applications through Steam, we would be able to suss out their internal rules surrounding “pornography” and adult content in general. It doesn’t feel like there are any set-in-stone rules surrounding adult content; and if there is, we were not any closer to understanding what they are.

What we do know, is that Steam dislikes depictions of real-life sex workers on Steam, which, frankly, we do not understand. There are dozens of games on Steam featuring real life mass murderers, but adult film stars are the real threat.

Do I sound salty? I think I sound salty.

STEAM IS NEEDLESSLY PAINFUL
But hey, Steam? Does this process need to be so frustrating and costly for small developers? We spent over 20k in development time creating builds tailored for Steam, and flushed our submissions fees down the toilet. We scraped, and went without to make these submissions happen, and it did not have to be this painful.

Here is a shortlist of a few things that you can do to save adult devs a lot of time, effort, and money.

1. Provide loose guidelines for what you consider “pornography”, and examples of experiences that you have not allowed on Steam. These guidelines could provide developers with the opportunity to better shape their experiences to be more “Steam friendly.” The dreaded Hey’s Code was racist, homophobic, and misogynistic, but at least it was specific when it came to what Hollywood could depict on screen.
   
   
2. Allow adult developers to submit a paper review of their game’s features before they go through the trouble of making an entire Steam store page, and a build for submission. These paper reviews won’t guarantee acceptance, but could allow Steam to head off any experience they would flatly never let on their platform.
   
   
3. Refund any submission cost to developers if their apps are banned based on a classification that Steam is not willing to openly define. ‘Pornography’ seems to be the only ban-able classification that is wide open to personal interpretation. It is not ethical to ask developers to shoulder the financial burden of an undefined marketplace application process.
   
   
4. Let adult devs remove features which make Valve uncomfortable during the compliance review. Outright banning adult experiences because of a single feature does not allow adult devs the opportunity to navigate the process with any sort of comfort. On that same note, why not provide a shortlist of changes that a developer could make if their submission is denied? Surely you have some sort of internal justification for denying a developer access to your marketplace, so why not disclose it?

The submissions process for adult games can be a much less painful experience if Steam enacts some of these cost/time saving ideas. If anyone at Steam is reading this, please consider them.

ENTER METAHUMAN
MetaHuman is a system developed by Epic that allows developers to easily create lifelike virtual humans. In time, these characters will be indistinguishable from models based on photogrammetry scans. In the event that Epic bans adult content from accessing Metahuman, a competitor will eventually rise up to fill that void.

So what?

Well, it’s simply a matter of time before we start seeing lewd projects based on this incredible technology.

What then? Well, we have some questions.

If someone generates a character that looks too “real”, and displays their breasts, is that against Steam Hey’s Code?

Is “pornography” code for “looks too real?”

A more troubling question -- how will Steam determine the age of these characters? Does a reviewer at Steam currently judge whether a character is of age based on a set list of body traits?

These problems surrounding likeness rights, and age verification are coming, and in some ways, they are already here. As our games continue to edge towards photo-real, at what point does the Steam “hands-off” approach to likenesses collapse?

We stand by the belief that characters based on real adult stars is the only way to ensure that a model is of appropriate age, and the creators have the proper consent to use that person’s likeness. If we are to create ethical, realistic porn, it must include real human verification.

CONCLUSION
After this, we think that we are slightly closer to understanding how the Steam review process works for adult content, and the results are disappointing. Devs submit an experience, and based on which reviewer you are assigned, your content can be considered “pornography” and immediately banned. Developers must sink the time and cost of setting up a full Steam store before their review; and receive nothing but a copy/paste rejection comment when their apps are summarily banned.

What is abundantly clear is that Steam is wary of 3D photo-realistic depictions of adult entertainers; and un-stylized depictions of the female body. Past precedent of other lewd content does not indicate whether your submission will pass inspection, and the Steam team will refuse to comment on what made your app fail their review.

Valve would rather your Players download a censored version of adult games through Steam, and then be sent to an external source to download a XXX patch -- instead of safely hosting that content on Steam. On top of all of that, despite claiming to be a new home for adult content, Steam has developed an internal Hey’s Code for adult content -- while refusing to let developers know it’s rules.

Where do we stand? Well, we’re disappointed.

We never imagined that Steam would have a list of hidden criteria that they would refuse to give to developers; and frankly, it seems like Steam has a lack of respect for developers in the adult space.

Holodexxx will continue building what we think to be the natural evolution of adult games, undeterred by this roadblock. Our Patrons has allowed us to hire more developers, and continue our mission of creating an ethical, serious adult experience — albeit, not on Steam. If you want to support our work, we’d love to have ya.

We sincerely hope that someone at Steam ends up reading about our experience, and it spurs some change in the adult games submission process. At the very least, if other adult devs can learn from our follies, we’ll consider that a win.

https://www.holodexxx.com/blog/steam

 

[Venser]

Oh no, this is really bad. Just as I thought PSVR was the answer to Facebook's Oculus, they come up with this bullshit. It includes "A gaze tracking unit"

Sony Patents System for Shadow Banning on PlayStation VR

Sony has put through a patent that will allow for shadow banning based upon a number of player factors inside the PlayStation VR system.

BY JOSEPH LAVOIE
Virtual reality is creating a new way to interact with games and other game-like environments. Just like any other type of gaming, this can also give rise to inappropriate behavior or rudeness. With this in mind, it appears that Sony is taking steps to patent a system for shadow banning players utilizing the PlayStation VR.

Shadowbanning, as it is typically defined, is being banned without immediately knowing the reason or cause. This happens in many games like Overwatch, or League of Legends. A general reason is given for the ban afterward, but players are either limited or completely removed from the gaming experience. While similar things like this exist via the VR route, such as inappropriate text, it has been difficult to implement this entirely due to the nature of VR being completely body intensive. It seems that Sony has found a possible way.


According to a patent submitted, Sony provides the reason for such a system is to remove players known as "griefers" via shadow ban based on gestures and language. Sony acknowledges that ignoring or confrontation with such players can just increase harassment and that shadow banning is the best method to deal with the "griefers."

Sony goes on to describe how the technology will handle shadow bannable offenses, detecting different types of movements and gestures, as well as detecting how close a player is to another. Different factors will also play out for players as they will get ratings based upon actions such as language or inappropriate touching, such as groping. For each action that can add up to a shadowban, a numerical score will be added to a player's total rating. Once the score has exceeded the safety threshold, a shadowban signal will be sent to remove the player.

Shadowbans are a touchy subject in terms of gaming. While they can definitely improve the quality of gameplay and overall mood of the game, it can also be a system that sets up for people being banned over small or non-offenses. Cases like this can often be seen in games like League of Legends where someone isn't necessarily griefing, but is voicing an opinion, and receives a warning or ban from an automatic system. With so much detail going into the shadowban system for PlayStation VR, and the type of activity that can be perceived and seen in VR, it appears that Sony may be on the right path.

The patent for the shadowban system for PlayStation VR was submitted on May 4, and as of right now, there is no word as to how and when it will be implemented. How this affects VR for the future remains to be seen.

https://gamerant.com/playstation-vr-shadowban-patent/

Patent: https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=10994209&IDKey=44FEA206720D &HomeUrl=http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2%26Sect2=HITOFF%26p=1%26u=%252Fnetahtml%252FPTO%252Fsearch-bool.html%26r=2%26f=G%26l=50%26co1=AND%26d=PTXT%26s1=griefers%26OS=griefers%26RS=griefers

 

[Spectacle]

That's not what "shadow banning" means. A shadow ban is banning someone without telling them that they're banned, letting them use the service and post messages apparently as normal, just that no other users ever get to see them.

What Sony has patented here is an "instaban". And if Sony has patended that for Playstation VR, it means nobody else will be allowed to do them for 28 years

 

[Venser]

According to "reliable sources" PSVR2 will have e haptic feedback motors inside the headset itself, higher resolution than Quest 2 and eye tracking.

Sony’s next-generation VR headset for PlayStation 5 has significantly higher resolution, inside-out tracking, a vibration motor, and even foveated rendering, reliable sources tell UploadVR.

We don’t yet know the product’s name, but multiple sources tell us Sony shared details with partners. Those details include a resolution of 4000×2080 pixels (2000×2040 per eye), a lens separation adjustment dial, and gaze tracking capable of foveated rendering. A motor in the headset can be used by developers to give direct haptic feedback.

https://uploadvr.com/psvr-playstation-4k-eye


I'm exited by all the possibilities of haptic feedback in the headset itself. Just imagine feeling the vibration when you get hit in a boxing game, feel the leaves brushing on top of your head while walking through the jungle, be able to tell the direction when somebody is hitting you from behind....or the worst of all- feel being touched on the back of your head by a ghost in a horror game.

 

[A horse of course]

That's not what "shadow banning" means. A shadow ban is banning someone without telling them that they're banned, letting them use the service and post messages apparently as normal, just that no other users ever get to see them.

What Sony has patented here is an "instaban". And if Sony has patended that for Playstation VR, it means nobody else will be allowed to do them for 28 years

Yeah I was really confused by the article. I was thinking it was going to ban you from VRChat-style apps but trick you into thinking there were still people there or something.

 

[Venser]

That's not what "shadow banning" means. A shadow ban is banning someone without telling them that they're banned, letting them use the service and post messages apparently as normal, just that no other users ever get to see them.

What Sony has patented here is an "instaban". And if Sony has patended that for Playstation VR, it means nobody else will be allowed to do them for 28 years

Yeah I was really confused by the article. I was thinking it was going to ban you from VRChat-style apps but trick you into thinking there were still people there or something.

This is from the patent PDF file:

Sounds like shadowbanning to me

 

[A horse of course]

That's not what "shadow banning" means. A shadow ban is banning someone without telling them that they're banned, letting them use the service and post messages apparently as normal, just that no other users ever get to see them.

What Sony has patented here is an "instaban". And if Sony has patended that for Playstation VR, it means nobody else will be allowed to do them for 28 years

Yeah I was really confused by the article. I was thinking it was going to ban you from VRChat-style apps but trick you into thinking there were still people there or something.

This is from the patent PDF file:

Sounds like shadowbanning to me

Okay, it's just the writer themselves not understanding what shadowbanning means.

 

[Venser]

Interesting point system. I can already smell Polygon articles coming out, saying "Sony is gamifying sexual harassment"

 

[Spectacle]

Interesting point system. I can already smell Polygon articles coming out, saying "Sony is gamifying sexual harassment"

Or "Sony's shadow bans unfairly target People of Color" for banning blacks saying "nigga!" every other sentence.

 

[Dexter]

https://www.roadtovr.com/htc-vive-pro-2-specs-price-release-date-announcement/

The headset-only version of Vive Pro 2 has a release date of June 3rd and a price of $800. HTC will begin pre-orders of the headset today with a $50 pre-order discount.

The full kit version of Vive Pro 2 (which includes the headset, controllers, and base stations) will be released in July and priced at $1,400.

https://www.roadtovr.com/htc-vive-focus-3-specs-price-release-date-announcement/

Vive Focus 3 will be available on June 27th, priced at $1,300, which includes a two year business warranty and Vive Business services.

https://www.roadtovr.com/pico-neo-3-pro-eye-release-date-price/

Pico says both Neo 3 Pro and Neo 3 Pro Eye will be available to enterprise sometime in Q3 2021, and they will be made available for pre-order on the Pico Neo website for $699 and $899 respectively. In China, its consumer Pico Neo 3 is coming in three flavors, priced locally at the US dollar equivalent of $390, $420, and $470.

“Both 6DoF models were built for the enterprise and are powered by the Snapdragon XR2 Platform,” the company says in a press statement. “The headsets have a single 5.5 [inch] display with 3,664 × 1,920 resolution, a PPI of 773 and up to 90Hz refresh rate.

The Pico Neo 3 Pro and Neo 3 Pro Eye are also slated to tether to PCs via NVIDIA’s Direct Mode, which lets the DisplayPort supported headsets to provide native 4K@90Hz wired connection for Pico VR Streaming.

 

[A horse of course]

Vive Pro 2 still has the shitty wands, ugh. I hope we get a new Index with a higher res.

 

[Dexter]

Vive Pro 2 still has the shitty wands, ugh. I hope we get a new Index with a higher res.

It works out of the box with any SteamVR compatible Controllers and any previous Vive Accessories.

Btw. here's the Full Keynote Day1:


Especially found this part interesting ~20:30 in regarding the Focus 3:

Privacy is at the forefront with all tracking data stored in an encrypted partition on the headset, using a method where it’s practically impossible to reverse engineer any images of the environment.

 

[Doktor Best]

I don't get why they keep making these 1000$+ headsets when the Quest 2 is obliterating every other headset sales wise. Why not even try to keep up in the value battle? Make a direct competitor, sell it for 450-500 bucks, people would rip those out of their hands. The Vive Pro has.... 2% market share on SteamVR, a fifth of the original Vive which basically stopped being a viable option years ago. The Reverb G2 did a little better i believe but still a failure compared to the Index or Oculus headsets.

I mean they obviously have the tech. Their Focus 3 has infrared inside out tracking.

They even kept their shitty vive wands instead of just copying oculus touch like every other developer who does not want to pay that much attention to their controllers. This is just fucking stupid man.

 

[A horse of course]

I don't get why they keep making these 1000$+ headsets when the Quest 2 is obliterating every other headset sales wise. Why not even try to keep up in the value battle? Make a direct competitor, sell it for 450-500 bucks, people would rip those out of their hands. The Vive Pro has.... 2% market share on SteamVR, a fifth of the original Vive which basically stopped being a viable option years ago. The Reverb G2 did a little better i believe but still a failure compared to the Index or Oculus headsets.

I mean they obviously have the tech. Their Focus 3 has infrared inside out tracking.

They even kept their shitty vive wands instead of just copying oculus touch like every other developer who does not want to pay that much attention to their controllers. This is just fucking stupid man.

1. Enterprise/business uses. Several headsets include user agreements that stipulate the headset is not to be used for certain commercial applications.

2. Niche consumer tastes. With how fast VR technology moves, almost every headset on the market has one specific thing that it does better than otherwise superior competitors. In the early days the Vive + battery pack was really the best viable wireless headset available. Other headsets might have a middling resolution but excellent FOV (original Vive had an impressive FOV, now people who go for this usually get an Index or the even more expensive headsets), or the best tracking, better controllers and so on.

3. No walled garden/facebook shittery. Whilst there's sideloading etc. for the Quest 2, it can still be fucked with by software updates (as happened with the Quest 1).

Personally I like my Quest 2 for simple games/gimmicks (and will probably upgrade to the Quest 3 when it comes), but I'll likely grab an Index 2 if it ever comes out.

 

[Venser]

I see a lot of VIVE users are pissed they swapped the OLED for the LCD and they won't upgrade.

 

[Doktor Best]

I don't get why they keep making these 1000$+ headsets when the Quest 2 is obliterating every other headset sales wise. Why not even try to keep up in the value battle? Make a direct competitor, sell it for 450-500 bucks, people would rip those out of their hands. The Vive Pro has.... 2% market share on SteamVR, a fifth of the original Vive which basically stopped being a viable option years ago. The Reverb G2 did a little better i believe but still a failure compared to the Index or Oculus headsets.

I mean they obviously have the tech. Their Focus 3 has infrared inside out tracking.

They even kept their shitty vive wands instead of just copying oculus touch like every other developer who does not want to pay that much attention to their controllers. This is just fucking stupid man.

1. Enterprise/business uses. Several headsets include user agreements that stipulate the headset is not to be used for certain commercial applications.

2. Niche consumer tastes. With how fast VR technology moves, almost every headset on the market has one specific thing that it does better than otherwise superior competitors. In the early days the Vive + battery pack was really the best viable wireless headset available. Other headsets might have a middling resolution but excellent FOV (original Vive had an impressive FOV, now people who go for this usually get an Index or the even more expensive headsets), or the best tracking, better controllers and so on.

3. No walled garden/facebook shittery. Whilst there's sideloading etc. for the Quest 2, it can still be fucked with by software updates (as happened with the Quest 1).

Personally I like my Quest 2 for simple games/gimmicks (and will probably upgrade to the Quest 3 when it comes), but I'll likely grab an Index 2 if it ever comes out.

1) AFAIK the Focus 3, which is a more premium Quest 2 knockoff, is their enterprise focused headset. The Vive Pro 2 is a consumer headset.

2) Yeah but the market has proven that the Quest 2 is hugely popular as it surpassed every other headset in a few months on SteamVR and now sits at 27% market share on SteamVR alone. Comparing SteamVR review count with Oculus store review count suggests that the userbase for standalone is much higher even. I mean its new tech, people are intrigued but they sure as hell won't drop more than a grand to try out a new gimmick. Lowering the cost of entry was the right move. Going wireless was the right move. Oculus has already tested the waters, now the competition just has to swoop in and copy the Quest without Facebook shenanigans and they will be golden.

3) I would not mind a HTC standalone appstore if it means i get a wireless steamVR machine.

Well as i said, i am most curious about the Decagear, which supposedly has an MSRP of 450€ and has wireless capabilities. If they can deliver i can definitely see myself switching over.

 

[Perkel]

1400

dead in water

 

[tritosine2k]

(...)With how fast VR technology moves, almost every headset on the market has one specific thing that it does better than otherwise superior competitors. In the early days the Vive + battery pack was really the best viable wireless headset available. Other headsets might have a middling resolution but excellent FOV (original Vive had an impressive FOV, now people who go for this usually get an Index or the even more expensive headsets), or the best tracking, better controllers and so on.

3. No walled garden/facebook shittery. (...)

Gee, no wonder it can move so FAST, when all they are doing is REVERT-ing Palmer Luckey's stuff, display shared between eyes, OLED ,screendoor, predistortion. Next time a field needs to advance SUCH fast get a 18y.o. original kool kid way out of his depth ,call it prodigious and let him steal/manipulate his way into some venture funded chair with his improvisating backwards mojo gimmick, while "superior competition" does the "work."

5/5 :coolstorybro:

 

[Perkel]

Palmer choice for all those things was price. At the time proper lenses for VR costed arm and leg (above $1k). Single screen because with distortion you can use it as alternative to two screens which is much cheaper.

VR headsets existed before his kickstarter but they were all multiple thousands dollars piece of crap kits that worked with basically nothing.

His cheap VR aproach is what gave you VR in first place and he was absolutely right in that. Moreover despite technology improving and production lines being expanded (thus lowering cost of components) some of his ideas still live well, like single screen, distortion etc.

OLED wasn't his idea. It is just that they got pretty cheap thanks to phones revolution after he run his kickstarter. So he couldn't predict it.

Also OLEDs are still best screens for VR. LCD are shit for VR due to lack of black which is far more important to VR than to tvs.

 

[tritosine2k]

Well yeah, not to mention if that spoon-fed "original VR kool kid" fairy tale had *any* semblance of truth to it you'd see some improvement happening in LCD-s by some real techie

except you don't see that ,just vocally ignorant twentysomethings ostracizing & pathetically abusing rate buttons as a retaliatory measure.

 

[Perkel]

Well yeah, not to mention if that spoon-fed "original VR kool kid" fairy tale had *any* semblance of truth to it you'd see some improvement happening in LCD-s by some real techie

The reason they switched to LCD is that high resolution OLEDs are still super expensive while 4k lcd displays are pretty cheap.

Carmack in one of his sessions outright said that they want to go back to OLED for future QUEST but this will depend on how price will fluctuate in future of OLED panels.

 

[Dexter]

Well yeah, not to mention if that spoon-fed "original VR kool kid" fairy tale had *any* semblance of truth to it you'd see some improvement happening in LCD-s by some real techie

The reason they switched to LCD is that high resolution OLEDs are still super expensive while 4k lcd displays are pretty cheap.

Carmack in one of his sessions outright said that they want to go back to OLED for future QUEST but this will depend on how price will fluctuate in future of OLED panels.

Careful, he Ignores anyone that says anything remotely positive about OLED, so you ended up on his Ignore list: https://rpgcodex.net/ignore.php?user=12754 as a "OLED errand-boy doorknob-level-dimwit NPC": https://rpgcodex.net/forums/search/146197612/?q=OLED+errand-boy