Rome: Total War Remastered

[Theodora]

Hmm. This is the company that added female generals to Rome 2 in an update, probably because the internal culture has correspondingly changed since the original release. They also took the chance to score points by saying “if you don’t like it, don’t play.”

Except that was blown way out of proportion by overgrown children online. Wasn't a thing at all in any of the cultures that have a historical tendency towards misogyny, and was peripheral for the rest, bar the Kushites (for obvious reasons).

People choosing to rage as a hobby doesn't make anything they say any more truthful.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

Except that was blown way out of proportion by overgrown children online.

See here's where I have the issue. Rather than the controversy start an actual discussion about the credibility of the subject and how it could be implemented as an optional thing instead we have a studio dictating and a community attacking each other rather than focusing on how the game could be made better. Paradox are the same too. Most AAA studios are the same. It always ends up this way and we're all worse off because of it. But I mean most of those studios have been stagnate since the early 2000s so its not surprising the cesspit of an industry we find ourselve's in now.

 

[A horse of course]

But there's no reason to think this, no indication of anything of the sort; this kinda running away with deliberately colourful interpretations of a single word is exactly the kinda routine shit that makes this whole forum a laughing stock so often.

Nobody cares what twitter trannies think of the forums, we're speculating on how ancient ethnicities will be depicted based on modern trends.

 

[A horse of course]

‘African’ isn’t a synonym for ‘black’.

But there's no reason to think this, no indication of anything of the sort; this kinda running away with deliberately colourful interpretations of a single word is exactly the kinda routine shit that makes this whole forum a laughing stock so often.

We know North Africans aren't black, the problem is Hannibal is seen as a great African general and to some peoples that means black. Even if you point out the flaws in their position most still double down because they cherish 'their' culture so much. It'd be almost admirable if it wasn't so stupid.

Of course I don't really think CA are going to put black Hannibal in, but 2021 has far higher odds of it happening than should be the case.

Most commonly you see that with Numidians, I assume because artists see north African in the description and assume black skin.

That one's been a trope for decades, best I can tell it started with someone mistaking Numidians as being closely related to Nubians. Some fanciful descriptions of liby-phonecians didn't help matters when judging the ethnicity in the region.

On a similar note, Emperor Septimus Severus is often deliberately misrepresented as "black". During "Black History Month" in the UK, several sources included him as an example of "black Britons", either explicitly saying so or mentioning that he was "born in Africa" or was an "African Emperor" in the context of Black History. In a couple of cases they were called out on it, and came up with comical excuses like his father's punic ancestry making him "black".

 

[Commissar Draco]

I don't think CA had every any "racism" problem to portray people who weren't a certain color another... they only have a problem of more and more popamole gameplay.

Medniggers were buttmad that the Germans and Gauls were noticeably taller than the Romans in R2.

Yet the descendants of snow niggers continue to type using Latin Alphabet in language which is 80% vocabulary invented by Romans and Greeks.

 

[Fedora Master]

I don't think CA had every any "racism" problem to portray people who weren't a certain color another... they only have a problem of more and more popamole gameplay.

Medniggers were buttmad that the Germans and Gauls were noticeably taller than the Romans in R2.

Yet the descendants of snow niggers continue to type using Latin Alphabet in language which is 80% vocabulary invented by Romans and Greeks.

 

[karoliner]

Videos are fine and all, but I figured you fine lads would appreciate the actual answers from Feral in today's Q&A. There might be a duplicate or two, but I'm a bit short on time today.

Spoiler

This is fantastic thanks for posting it.

 

[JarlFrank]

So the modding limitations have been eliminated, with more factions and more provinces being able to be put into the campaign map, and the campaign map is as moddable as it has always been in the original.

That's all I need to know.

Everything else is irrelevant.

This is going to be GOOD!

 

[Theodora]

So the modding limitations have been eliminated, with more factions and more provinces being able to be put into the campaign map, and the campaign map is as moddable as it has always been in the original.

That's all I need to know.

Everything else is irrelevant.

This is going to be GOOD!

Hell yes. ^^

Still, it's kinda annoying to see that so far the only response from an EB staff member on the topic — at least that I could find — is a solid 'no'. I don't know the structure of their team, and hopefully this person is speaking out of place. Imo it'd be foolish to behold yourself to an old and unsupported engine/client with such enormous limitations, when more recent TW mods like Divide et Impera show what a team can do if freed of these restrictions.

It'd be a waste of such a talented and dedicated team to completely skip over such an opportunity. :/

See here's where I have the issue. Rather than the controversy start an actual discussion about the credibility of the subject and how it could be implemented as an optional thing instead we have a studio dictating and a community attacking each other rather than focusing on how the game could be made better. Paradox are the same too. Most AAA studios are the same. It always ends up this way and we're all worse off because of it. But I mean most of those studios have been stagnate since the early 2000s so its not surprising the cesspit of an industry we find ourselve's in now.

I mean I agree on this in general, but it doesn't help that there's a lot of people acting on bad faith (on both sides of these ""community debates""). Anytime these topics come up like this, it's usually based on a lot of FUD and about as much actual substance as the shit put out by the corps that dominate the industry.

Nobody cares what twitter trannies think of the forums, we're speculating on how ancient ethnicities will be depicted based on modern trends.

You're so obnoxious sometimes, Edward — jfc. You're speculating jack shit, it's the same tired nonsense it always is. Culture is not a monolith, and there's zero reason to think CA would suddenly jump on board the Afrocentrists' faux history bandwagon.

 

[A horse of course]

You're so obnoxious sometimes, Edward — jfc. You're speculating jack shit, it's the same tired nonsense it always is. Culture is not a monolith, and there's zero reason to think CA would suddenly jump on board the Afrocentrists' faux history bandwagon.

I speculated that African troops would all be black/brown because your so-called "Afrocentric faux history bandwagon" is pushed by the BBC, PBS, History(dot)com, broadsheet newspapers and several other "reputable" sources. I'm not gonna link all the sources for "blackwashing" ancient history, firstly because it takes 5 seconds to google "Black Roman Britain" or "Severus African Emperor" and find what I'm talking about, and secondly because you already know this and I'm not going to indulge you when you should be dilating.

 

[Tacgnol]

I always find it funny when they claim that Severus was black. None of the contemporary sculptures have any black features.

I dunno where this idea that African automatically means black came from in the first place. It predates a lot of the WE WUZ KANGZ mumbo jumbo.

 

[Theodora]

I speculated that African troops would all be black/brown because your so-called "Afrocentric faux history bandwagon" is pushed by the BBC, PBS, History(dot)com, broadsheet newspapers and several other "reputable" sources. I'm not gonna link all the sources for "blackwashing" ancient history, firstly because it takes 5 seconds to google "Black Roman Britain" or "Severus African Emperor" and find what I'm talking about, and secondly because you already know this and I'm not going to indulge you when you should be dilating.

Nah, you're just looking for something to reee about. I don't see how Afrocentrists are "mine" in any sense of the word, but maybe these things actually having a name and being a common eyeroll for actual historians is somehow alien to you. CA haven't ever done the thing you're preemptively accusing them of, so maybe cool your jets, and if that's too much trouble, maybe go dilate yourself instead.

(And lmao @ anything owned by Murdoch being considered reputable by anyone.)

I dunno where this idea that African automatically means black came from in the first place. It predates a lot of the WE WUZ KANGZ mumbo jumbo.

Americans are undereducated (esp. when it comes to 'the outside world') and think that "Africa" = "black". It's sad, because beyond all the weird appropriation of Mediterranean history/culture, it also just plain downplays the historical noteworthiness of places like Aksum.

 

[A horse of course]

I don't see how Afrocentrists are "mine" in any sense of the word, but maybe these things actually having a name and being a common eyeroll for actual historians is somehow alien to you.

I said "your" because it was a phrase you used. You're being ridiculously oversensitive atm.

 

[Theodora]

Oversensitive would imply I'm upset, but it just made you look even more stupid than usual. Anyway you need to lose at least 3lbs before you're allowed to talk to me again.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

This is going to be GOOD!

*assuming the mod community comes back and actually ports their stuff over.
maybe if I'm lucky I'll be able to pick this up on Humble one day and give CA/Sega $0. That's normally how I buy their games since Empire. I can wait I've played enough Rome to know what this has to offer so I'm not too interested. The mod community if it comes back should do amazing things though I mean to be fair CA did give us what we wanted which was abandon the warscape engine and go back which they actually did for this game so credit where credit is due its been long needed warscape is garbage.

 

[Fedora Master]

I always find it funny when they claim that Severus was black. None of the contemporary sculptures have any black features.

I dunno where this idea that African automatically means black came from in the first place. It predates a lot of the WE WUZ KANGZ mumbo jumbo.

Americans dont understand that North Africa =/= Sub-Saharan Africa.

 

[Raghar]

You're so obnoxious sometimes, Edward — jfc. You're speculating jack shit, it's the same tired nonsense it always is. Culture is not a monolith, and there's zero reason to think CA would suddenly jump on board the Afrocentrists' faux history bandwagon.

How does Egypt portraits looks like in CA games?

 

[Fedora Master]

You're so obnoxious sometimes, Edward — jfc. You're speculating jack shit, it's the same tired nonsense it always is. Culture is not a monolith, and there's zero reason to think CA would suddenly jump on board the Afrocentrists' faux history bandwagon.

How does Egypt portraits looks like in CA games?

Egypt in Rome 1 was a horrible fantasy faction with units that were thousands of years out of date by the time the game starts. They are very much pre-Ptolemaic.

 

[Tacgnol]

You're so obnoxious sometimes, Edward — jfc. You're speculating jack shit, it's the same tired nonsense it always is. Culture is not a monolith, and there's zero reason to think CA would suddenly jump on board the Afrocentrists' faux history bandwagon.

How does Egypt portraits looks like in CA games?

Egypt in Rome 1 was a horrible fantasy faction with units that were thousands of years out of date by the time the game starts. They are very much pre-Ptolemaic.

Yep, Rome 2 had a more accurate portrayal of the faction.

Ironically, I think the first Rome had more KANGZ shit then Rome 2 when it came to the Egyptians. Rome 2 was grounded in the successor kingdom portrayal, Rome 1 was some extremely strange blend of pre and post Ptolemy Egypt.

 

[A horse of course]

You're so obnoxious sometimes, Edward — jfc. You're speculating jack shit, it's the same tired nonsense it always is. Culture is not a monolith, and there's zero reason to think CA would suddenly jump on board the Afrocentrists' faux history bandwagon.

How does Egypt portraits looks like in CA games?

Egypt in Rome 1 was a horrible fantasy faction with units that were thousands of years out of date by the time the game starts. They are very much pre-Ptolemaic.

Yep, Rome 2 had a more accurate portrayal of the faction.

Ironically, I think the first Rome had more KANGZ shit then Rome 2 when it came to the Egyptians. Rome 2 was grounded in the successor kingdom portrayal, Rome 1 was some extremely strange blend of pre and post Ptolemy Egypt.

Rome 1 Egypt was a lot more fun than Rome 2 Egypt. When you have a lot of very similar factions (pretty much every Gayreek faction in Rome 2, for example), with virtually identical in-game art assets, cultures, political systems and rosters, you need to compensate for this in some other way, like having very deep faction roleplay/management features. Neither Rome 1 nor Rome 2 have that much in the way of this (though Rome 2 definitely improved after all the content updates, like the last one that added more for female characters to do), but Rome 1 at least has the novelty value of wacky Mummy Returns fantasy units.

People were more forgiving of this sort of thing in Medieval 2's copypasta Yuropoor factions for a variety of reasons - like the inherent popularity of late medieval units - but one big reason was that there was a fair bit of flavour to how these copypasta factions played and interacted thanks to stuff like the Papal Elections, Crusades, princesses and so on (though a really big loss compared to the original Total Wars was the very basic faction inheritance mechanic, which gave the player an incentive to interfere more with other factions). Attila went a little way towards this as well, though not as successfully. Compare this to something like Rome 2 or Thrones of Bongtannia, where you have a lot of extremely similar factions with no real personality and few means of distinguishing themselves through emergent gameplay.

This is one of the reasons the Fantasoy TW games do so well, as despite having some of the most pathetically shallow and gimmicky faction mechanics in the history of the series, every faction stands out and seems novel to the average player.

 

[Jugashvili]

Yep, Rome 2 had a more accurate portrayal of the faction.

Ironically, I think the first Rome had more KANGZ shit then Rome 2 when it came to the Egyptians. Rome 2 was grounded in the successor kingdom portrayal, Rome 1 was some extremely strange blend of pre and post Ptolemy Egypt.

The sad thing about Rome 2 is that its disastrous release and bad mechanics overshadows the fact that they did their research much better than for Rome 1. Rome 1 was a janky fantasy game that was only salvaged by the sheer autism of the modding community.

 

[JarlFrank]

This is going to be GOOD!

*assuming the mod community comes back and actually ports their stuff over.

Why does it have to be the old teams porting their stuff over?

This is a great opportunity for NEW teams, too. The modding community never died. We still get new Rome and Medieval 2 mods every year, because they're the most moddable TW games.
Now new teams can work on the remastered engine with reduced limits, which is cool.
Some old teams with in-progress mods that are almost finished and have lots of scripts for the old engine will likely stick to the original Rome, and that's fine.

 

[Tacgnol]

This is going to be GOOD!

*assuming the mod community comes back and actually ports their stuff over.

Why does it have to be the old teams porting their stuff over?

This is a great opportunity for NEW teams, too. The modding community never died. We still get new Rome and Medieval 2 mods every year, because they're the most moddable TW games.
Now new teams can work on the remastered engine with reduced limits, which is cool.
Some old teams with in-progress mods that are almost finished and have lots of scripts for the old engine will likely stick to the original Rome, and that's fine.

Yep. If the remaster is good from a technical perspective, I'm sure someone will port the big mods over, regardless of the intentions of the original devs.

If the original devs get butthurt, fuck em.

 

[JarlFrank]

This is going to be GOOD!

*assuming the mod community comes back and actually ports their stuff over.

Why does it have to be the old teams porting their stuff over?

This is a great opportunity for NEW teams, too. The modding community never died. We still get new Rome and Medieval 2 mods every year, because they're the most moddable TW games.
Now new teams can work on the remastered engine with reduced limits, which is cool.
Some old teams with in-progress mods that are almost finished and have lots of scripts for the old engine will likely stick to the original Rome, and that's fine.

Yep. If the remaster is good from a technical perspective, I'm sure someone will port the big mods over, regardless of the intentions of the original devs.

If the original devs get butthurt, fuck em.

No, I don't even mean porting.

I mean completely new mod projects with new ideas and concepts. Do you have any idea how many mods there are for Rome and Medieval 2?
There's half a dozen mods covering the classical Roman era alone, and they're all slightly different. Rome Total Realism, Europa Barbarorum, Res Gestae, Classical Age Total War, Extended Cultures, Rome Total History, Res Bellicae, Roma Surrectum, SPQR Total War, Fall of the Republic Rise of the Empire.
There's also two Roman era total conversions for Medieval 2: De Bello Mundi and Europa Barbarorum 2.

The likelihood that a completely new team is going to make its own classical age mod for Rome Remastered is very high.

 

[Tacgnol]

This is going to be GOOD!

*assuming the mod community comes back and actually ports their stuff over.

Why does it have to be the old teams porting their stuff over?

This is a great opportunity for NEW teams, too. The modding community never died. We still get new Rome and Medieval 2 mods every year, because they're the most moddable TW games.
Now new teams can work on the remastered engine with reduced limits, which is cool.
Some old teams with in-progress mods that are almost finished and have lots of scripts for the old engine will likely stick to the original Rome, and that's fine.

Yep. If the remaster is good from a technical perspective, I'm sure someone will port the big mods over, regardless of the intentions of the original devs.

If the original devs get butthurt, fuck em.

No, I don't even mean porting.

I mean completely new mod projects with new ideas and concepts. Do you have any idea how many mods there are for Rome and Medieval 2?
There's half a dozen mods covering the classical Roman era alone, and they're all slightly different. Rome Total Realism, Europa Barbarorum, Res Gestae, Classical Age Total War, Extended Cultures, Rome Total History, Res Bellicae, Roma Surrectum, SPQR Total War, Fall of the Republic Rise of the Empire.
There's also two Roman era total conversions for Medieval 2: De Bello Mundi and Europa Barbarorum 2.

The likelihood that a completely new team is going to make its own classical age mod for Rome Remastered is very high.

True, though I'm sure the older mods will get official and unofficial ports as well.