Community RPG Codex 2014 Role-Playing Game of the Year Awards

[evdk]

Good catch. Shills out in full force, or trolls from other sites that the poll was posted on?

Or me.

 

[Achiman]

It's a bit silly, yes. Most of the complaints came from people who wanted to see game #4 (or 5) of 54 on place #1. Big deal.
If I look at the top 10, I see Neo Scavenger on #3, which I will probably never play, because I don't really care for the subgenre. However, I have no means to decide if it's an enjoyable game for people who like this specific subgenre, so why would I care about this? A similar reasoning is true for Trails in the Sky. Big deal. I should probably open up my personal drama thread about how these games touched me in the wrong spot and are responsible for the demise of western civilization, but I somehow can't bring up enough righteous anger before bursting into laughter.


Of course only after we defined, once and for all, the all-important question: What is an RPG?

Any game that starts of with a dark evil that is consuming the land and threatening to upset the balance and destroy civilization and "hey, can you kill these rats for me?"

 

[Turjan]

There's always someone who falls for it .

 

[Onholyservicebound]

It's a bit silly, yes. Most of the complaints came from people who wanted to see game #4 (or 5) of 54 on place #1. Big deal.

I am the sole exception, however because I didn't say a specific game should be in a specific spot the Bayesian average decided based on the assumed average that I was criticizing the poll because I wanted Wasteland 2 in a different spot.

 

[toro]

I'm no expert on statistic but if you want to qualitatively sort the games then you need a ordering criteria which includes at least one coefficient about how a game related to the rest of the games.

Otherwise the resulting statistic doesn't say anything about the relation between the games and provides aberrant results like HqS is better than W2 and so on. With or without Bayesian average.

Unfortunately this kind of information is not available because of the way the survey was conducted (random data).

However one such coefficient can be measured: For each game we could estimate how many voters did play a better game.

Below is a table for the first 9 games from the original statistic.

The meaning of the number in the first row is:
155 voters have ranked Divinity: Original Sin better than Shadowrun: Dragonfall and that amounted to 216 points.
58 voters have ranked Divinity: Original Sin better than NeoScavenger and that amounted to 84 points.
72 voters have ranked Divinity: Original Sin better than Heroine's Quest and that amounted to 87 points.
281 voters have ranked Divinity: Original Sin better than Wasteland 2 and that amounted to 374 points.
129 voters have ranked Divinity: Original Sin better than Legend of Grimrock 2 and that amounted to 180 points.
and so on for each game.

On the last row is the sum of the voters above:
462 voters have rated one game as better than Divinity:Original Sin.
510 voters have rated one game as better than Shadowrun: Dragonfall.
231 voters have rated one game as better than NeoScavenger.
226 voters have rated one game as better than Heroine's Quest.
783 voters have rated one game as better than Wasteland 2.
395 voters have rated one game as better than Legend of Grimrock 2.
and so on for the rest of the games.

Now at least we have one coefficient that can show how a game relates to the other in the entire network.

The last step is to check this coefficient against the total number of voters for any particular game therefore getting a number representative of how many voters did play a better game.
50% of Divinity: Original Sin voters have played a better game.
84% of Shadowrun: Dragonfall voters have played a better game.
116% of NeoScavenger voters have played a better game.
136% of Heroine's Quest voters have played a better game.
96% of Wasteland 2 voters have played a better game.
113% of Legend of Grimrock 2 voters have played a better game.

I know that 100%+ value don't make sense in reality but these number are caused by the fact that the original data is shit (voting rules were stupid).
Also I'm aware that some voters overlap but the thing is, this is the data so I'm using whatever is in that data set.

Anyway, ranked on the results above, the top 9 looks like this:
1. Divinity: Original Sin
2. Shadowrun: Dragonfall
3. Wasteland 2
4. Legend of Grimrock 2
5. NeoScavenger
6. Valkyria Chronicles
7. Heroine's Quest
8. Legend of Heroes.
9. Tales of Maj'Eyal : Ashes of Uhr'Rohk

Of course this top is based on only the first 9 positions from the previous top therefore a better top could be obtained by including all games in the computation.

I don't assume that my approach is correct (no approach is correct when the input data is shit) but I think that even this stupid approach is better than whatever the fuck was presented in the original article.

I'm sure that better estimations could be made if the input data was filtered properly.

Also please note that the point ranking is completely shit and unusable because a vote of 5 is not the same as a vote of 2 + a vote of 3

Now Stelcio please give me a better example.

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

must have been a good year when all the codex can do is whinge about the maths rather than the content of the control sample

 

[Konjad]

Basically, the poll isn't actually a representation of what the majority of the Codex likes, isn't even legitimate to begin with, and has corrections done to the results based on assumptions.
It's a shitty experimental poll, hopefully they use real polls next time, where randomness isn't a factor.

What kind of "real poll" do you mean? In my opinion, Bayesian average was a great idea. However, you seem to have a better suggestion to count the votes, therefore you should share it with us. Don't keep it to yourself, otherwise people might think you are just angry because your favourite games did not receive top places.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I doubt there will be much butthurt unless something really unexpected happens

Basically, the poll isn't actually a representation of what the majority of the Codex likes, isn't even legitimate to begin with, and has corrections done to the results based on assumptions.
It's a shitty experimental poll, hopefully they use real polls next time, where randomness isn't a factor.

Butthurt is that what you've resorted to as a defense of this shit poll? Yes, it's a real perfect, simple poll, it doesn't rely on the good nature of the voters, nor does it add in imaginary numbers where there are no votes.

 

[Zarniwoop]

I'm quite surprised the Codex picked Dragonfall as the second best game. I mean I loved it but I thought the Edgydex would complain about the storyfaggotry, simple mechanics etc. It really is the little game that could. I can't believe the writing and design was done by the same lot as DMS.

 

[Grotesque]

1. In my opinion, this poll has no legitimacy because everybody from anywhere could vote. So when the devs of those top 3 games proudly wear that codex troll stamp, somebody should tell them that in fact is just a "lurker, rpgwatch etc award". Its like an european country wants to elect its president and argentinians and somali people can vote too because the legitimacy of the vote is in the voter's high number and not who was eligible to vote .

2. I can bet my life on it that if Dragon Age Inquisition made top 3, these results would just have been released just for lols in a reply somewhere on the poll announcement thread on the pretext that is not codex representative and it was just a trial of of a new methodology.

3. As much I love Neo Scavenger, that game has no place on that list. And other games too. The reasoning of "what is an RPG" was stretched so far out that it became more loose than Ridley Scott's cunt.

4. For the first time in my life I genuinely feel sorry for Fargo because a great disservice was made to him due to (dare I say) incompetence.

5. Anytime I would rather have a game that starts rather slow and ends on a hard note rather than have a game that starts high and ends up a limp dick before I even had my climax.

6. It's like this poll is a miniature of what happened to game industry in the last decade or so: appeal to the unwashed masses where everybody has a saying, the bigger the number the better/ more credibility (its a good game because it sold a billion), quantity over quality, no real peer review whatsoever (Bayesian average/estimate are made up terms, just for laughs)

7. Rosh is dead. So anybody can have it's avatar except Rosh being included in RPG Codex wall of fame.

 

[Turjan]

Otherwise the resulting statistic doesn't say anything about the relation between the games and provides aberrant results like HqS is better than W2 and so on. With or without Bayesian average.

This is now page 11 of this thread, and by now you still did not get that this is not an "aberrant result", but was exactly one of the stated goals of this poll, which was rating each game on its own merit? And outliers are supposed to be dealt with by the Bayesian average.

However one such coefficient can be measured: For each game we could estimate how many voters did play a better game.

The number of players was used in the Bayesian average. Which is why you get a mellowed result and HQ doesn't beat Wasteland 2 outright.

 

[Absalom]

6. It's like this poll is ... everybody has a saying, the bigger the number the better/ more credibility, quantity over quality, no real peer review whatsoever (Bayesian average/estimate are made up terms, just for laughs)

6. It's like this poll is ... bigger the number, quantity over quality,

6.poll is numbers

 

[Turjan]

1. In my opinion, this poll has no legitimacy because everybody from anywhere could vote. So when the devs of those top 3 games proudly wear that codex troll stamp, somebody should tell them that in fact is just a "lurker, rpgwatch etc award".

What you call "lurker" award is officially called "Reader's Choice". Which sounds about the same to me. So what is your complaint here?

And D:OS and SR: Dragonfall are also called "Editor's Choice", because the result was the same.

It is as if people didn't even read the news post.

 

[Konjad]

1. In my opinion, this poll has no legitimacy because everybody from anywhere could vote. So when the devs of those top 3 games proudly wear that codex troll stamp, somebody should tell them that in fact is just a "lurker, rpgwatch etc award". Its like an european country wants to elect its president and argentinians and somali people can vote too because the legitimacy of the vote is in the voter's high number and not who was eligible to vote .

2. I can bet my life on it that if Dragon Age Inquisition made top 3, these results would just have been released just for lols in a reply somewhere on the poll announcement thread on the pretext that is not codex representative and it was just a trial of of a new methodology.

3. As much I love Neo Scavenger, that game has no place on that list. And other games too. The reasoning of "what is an RPG" was stretched so far out that it became more loose than Ridley Scott's cunt.

4. For the first time in my life I genuinely feel sorry for Fargo because a great disservice was made to him due to (dare I say) incompetence.

5. Anytime I would rather have a game that starts rather slow and ends on a hard note rather than have a game that starts high and ends up a limp dick before I even had my climax.

6. It's like this poll is a miniature of what happened to game industry in the last decade or so: appeal to the unwashed masses where everybody has a saying, the bigger the number the better/ more credibility (its a good game because it sold a billion), quantity over quality, no real peer review whatsoever (Bayesian average/estimate are made up terms, just for laughs)

7. Rosh is dead. So anybody can have it's avatar except Rosh being included in RPG Codex wall of fame.

Cry me a fucking river, faggot.

 

[Grotesque]

Cry me a fucking river, faggot.

Another knuckle dragging swamp cunt on the loose. What's new?

 

[Grotesque]

What you call "lurker" award is officially called "Reader's Choice".

RPG Codex 2014 Role-Playing Game of the Year Awards

 

[Turjan]

RPG Codex 2014 Role-Playing Game of the Year Awards

Indeed. The RPG Codex is a website. This website handed out a "Reader's Choice" award that was open to everyone from everywhere to vote on, and an "Editor's Choice", which was voted on by the staff of said website.

Incidentally, the results for the Gold and Silver awards on both polls were identical. The Bronze award on both polls did not include Wasteland 2.

Just to mention what I consider valid criticism:

- The anti poll-rigging measures were somewhat deficient. This is however notoriously hard to do if you want to have an open poll with many voters without requiring and checking registration. If I'd take a guess, the main victim of (a different kind of) poll rigging was DA:I. Not that anyone here would complain about that, as results like that lie in the nature of polls.

- The presentation of the top ten list in the news post could be changed. While the news text lists shared 4th and 7th places, the table suggests defined places, sorted by normal average, which somewhat undoes the Bayesian correction. Some Wasteland 2 fans may be upset about that specific detail.

 

[Konjad]

Another knuckle dragging swamp cunt on the loose. What's new?

Let me rephrase.

1. In my opinion, this poll has no legitimacy because everybody from anywhere could vote. So when the devs of those top 3 games proudly wear that codex troll stamp, somebody should tell them that in fact is just a "lurker, rpgwatch etc award". Its like an european country wants to elect its president and argentinians and somali people can vote too because the legitimacy of the vote is in the voter's high number and not who was eligible to vote .

Reader's Choice does not suggest "only active members can vote!", it suggests those who read the codex vote.

2. I can bet my life on it that if Dragon Age Inquisition made top 3, these results would just have been released just for lols in a reply somewhere on the poll announcement thread on the pretext that is not codex representative and it was just a trial of of a new methodology.

Yes, and for a good reason, because there would be a suspicion of the poll being manipulated. Why? Because apparently DAI is just not a good game and not what you would expect Codex to vote as best RPG of the year.

3. As much I love Neo Scavenger, that game has no place on that list. And other games too. The reasoning of "what is an RPG" was stretched so far out that it became more loose than Ridley Scott's cunt.

Oh my, so the definition of the RPG in the poll is not compatible with yours, so the poll is clearly rigged, pointless, worthless and should be removed! I call your mom a good role-playing game.

4. For the first time in my life I genuinely feel sorry for Fargo because a great disservice was made to him due to (dare I say) incompetence.

What incompetence? We didn't take solely your opinion what should best games of the year be considered?

5. Anytime I would rather have a game that starts rather slow and ends on a hard note rather than have a game that starts high and ends up a limp dick before I even had my climax.

And what games are you talking about here? DOS? I enjoyed it throughoutly, save for some mediocre areas, or is this again about the winners not being your favourite games?

6. It's like this poll is a miniature of what happened to game industry in the last decade or so: appeal to the unwashed masses where everybody has a saying, the bigger the number the better/ more credibility (its a good game because it sold a billion), quantity over quality, no real peer review whatsoever (Bayesian average/estimate are made up terms, just for laughs)

It's like you are butthurt because your favourite games are not everyone's favourite games. Moreover, first you bitch about NEO Scavenger being included and in the tops, now you cry popular games won many votes (and apparently the fact that the most mainstream games scored pretty low does not occur to you?). Is it bad everyone has a saying? It's not even that, because there are two awards and if you consider one of them unreliable, you can read the other one.

 

[Goral]

Thank you felipepe for organizing and analyzing this poll. The list looks very solid, with well deserved spots. Because of the trolls however the results have been skewed a bit. This is what first 6 places would look like if games from the first 6 would have their 1 and 2 marks changed to 3:

1. DOS (bayesian average 4.32)
2. Dragonfall (4.2)
3. NEO (4.18)
4. Grimrock (4.13)
5. Wasteland 2 (4.11)
6. Heroine's Quest (4.08)

IMO this result better reflects the value of each game. None of the above deserve a 1 mark (read: "it's shit") or 2 mark (read: "it's less smelly shit") and I can't imagine how anyone in good conscience could give such ratings to these games. I bet that those who gave these marks haven't even played these games, haven't played more than 1 hour or just wanted to skew the results so that their favourite game would win. I think that most of the saboteurs belong to the third option. Some of them have probably rated DOS 5 instead of 4 for example because they preferred lesser evil. The way I see it DOS isn't the best game on this list but the least hated game of incline.
Personally I would put Wasteland 2 on the first place (IMO it had the best dialogues and characters plus post-apocalyptic setting is my favourite, also the fights were at least as good as in DOS), NEO on 2nd and DOS on 3rd (so DF 4th, Grimrock 5th, HQ 6th) but as I said at the beginning the results we got are also good.

Anyway, I'll show some of the more doubtful votes:

long list

1-2-2015 0:49:04 Wasteland 2 - 2, Diablo III - 4
1-2-2015 4:29:31 Dead State - 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-2-2015 4:37:19 Xenonauts 4, Dark Souls 5, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-2-2015 6:36:08 Valkyria Chronicles 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-2-2015 6:41:45 Dark Souls 3, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-2-2015 7:28:18 Tales of Maj'Eyal 5. Wasteland 2 - 2
1-2-2015 7:59:37 Wasteland 2 - 1, Tales of Maj'Eyal 4, Banner Saga 4,
1-2-2015 10:27:36 Wasteland 2 - 1, Unrest - 4, South Park - 5, Halfway 5
1-2-2015 10:48:44 Valkyria 5, Agarest 4, Dark Souls 5, FF XIII 5, FF XIII-2 5, Legend of Heroes 5, Valkyria 5, Shadowrun 1, Wasteland 2 -2 (jrpg fag detected)
1-2-2015 11:04:13 (same guy?) Valkyria 5, Agarest 4, Dark Souls 5,FF 4, FF 4, FF 5, Grimrock 3, Legend of Heroes 5, NEO 1, Shadowrun 1, Southpark 4, Wasteland 2 - 1
1-2-2015 17:32:16 (still the same guy?) Agarest 4, Banner 5, Dark Souls 5, Dragon Age 3, FF 4, FF 5, Grimrock 3, Legend of Heroes 5, NEO 3, Shadowrun 1, Southpark 4, Valkyria 5, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-2-2015 17:41:45 Banner Saga 4, Risen 3 - 4, South Park 4, Wasteladn 2 - 2
1-2-2015 17:54:04 Dragon Age 3, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-3-2015 6:26:39 Diablo III - 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-3-2015 6:58:20 Xenonauts 4, Wasteland 2 - 2 (really?)
1-3-2015 13:09:37 Shadowrun 5, DOS 5, Wasteland 2 - 1 (perfect example for what I said)
1-3-2015 17:15:22 Borderlands 5, Diablo 4, Dragon Age 4, Shadowrun 3, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-3-2015 20:11:02 Diablo 3 - 3, Xenonauts 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-3-2015 20:56:50 Only 1 or 2 marks except for Shadowrun getting 5 and Blackguards 3
1-3-2015 23:32:05 Valkyria 4, Xenonauts 5, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-4-2015 2:50:53 Quest for Infamy 3, Wasteland 2 - 1
1-4-2015 2:58:37 Dead State 4, Xenonauts 4, Shadowrun 3, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-4-2015 5:29:43 Grimrock 2, Shadowrun 1, Wasteland 2 - 1
1-4-2015 6:18:50 Transistor 4, Shadowrun 3, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-4-2015 7:08:11 Legend of Heroes 5, Valkyria 4, Wasteland 2 - 2 (another jrpg tard)
1-4-2015 7:28:04 Dragon Age 5, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-4-2015 9:36:12 DOS 2,Wasteland 2 - 2, Valkyria 4
1-4-2015 10:03:56 Risen 3 - 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-4-2015 12:16:22 Dragon Age 5, Grimrock 1, NEO 2, Wasteland 2 - 1
1-4-2015 12:46:21 Dark Souls 5, Transistor 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-4-2015 12:56:12 Dead State 5, Wasteland 2 - 1
1-4-2015 12:59:44 Tales of Maj'Eyal 4, Wasteland 2 - 1
1-4-2015 13:18:39 Valkyria 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-4-2015 14:14:07 Diablo 3 4, FF 4, FF 4, NEO 1, Valkyria 4, Wasteland 2 - 2 (jrpg)
1-4-2015 16:53:14 Legend of Heroes 5, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-4-2015 18:34:38 Valkyria 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-4-2015 18:49:47 Borderlands 5, Costume Quest 5, Deus Ex 5, Diablo 5, Dragon Age 5, FF 5, FF 5, FF 5, Wasteland 2 - 1 (lol)
1-4-2015 19:27:50 Banner Saga 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-4-2015 22:56:51 DOS 2, Shadowrun 3, Tales of Maj 5, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-5-2015 9:07:49 Dragon Age 3, Wasteland 2 - 1
1-5-2015 9:44:03 Tales of Maj 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-5-2015 10:22:28 Dragon Age 4, Valkyria 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-5-2015 12:29:23 Agarest 4, Diablo 4, Grimrock 1, Legend of Heroes 5, Valkyria 4, Wasteland 2 - 2 (jrpg)
1-5-2015 16:48:11 FF III 4, Tales of Maj 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-5-2015 17:30:57 Borderlands 5, Wasteland 2 - 1
1-5-2015 20:59:30 Consortium 5, Wasteland 2 - 1
1-6-2015 5:12:24 Only 1 marks (!!!)
1-6-2015 6:41:00 Dead State 4, South Park 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-6-2015 7:25:27 Banner Saga 4, Lords of Xulima 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-6-2015 7:55:55 Valkyria 5, Wateland 2 - 1
1-6-2015 15:33:50 Dragon Age 3, Shadowrun 3, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-7-2015 19:53:33 Blackguards 5, Banner Saga 4, DOS 3, HQ 3, Might and Magic 2, Shadowrun 2, Wasteland 2 -2
1-8-2015 5:50:14 Xenonauts 4, Wasteland 2 - 2
1-8-2015 6:02:39 Dark SOuls 5, Wasteland 2 - 2

It looks to me that in many cases those who voted 2 wanted to vote 1 but they decided it would look less trollish that way .
Also, one thing to note is that out of those who gave Wasteland 2 mark 1 or 2, if they voted on Valkyria then they voted 4 or 5. All of them.

So IMO for events like these (i.e. events that are designed to select the best cRPG of 2014) the system used in RPG Codex's Best cRPGs is best because it doesn't allow saboteurs to participate. What's more, it doesn't allow people who haven't played the game to participate either. Users are also non-anonymous and they tend to shit-vote less, knowing that their votes are public.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I guess Fargo's obsession with reactivity means shit for the codex.

You know, I think it's time someone fucking said this because I don't even.

Wasteland 2's C&C and reactivity are Biowarian as fuck, and it's nothing but sheer hypocrisy for many people here to sling mud all the time at Alpha Protocol et al while praising Wasteland to the high heavans when they are both the fucking same in this regard.

There. I said it.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Also, one thing to note is that out of those who gave Wasteland 2 mark 1 or 2, if they voted on Valkyria then they voted 4 or 5. All of them.

Weeaboos gonna weeaboo.

 

[Dev_Anj]

Let me rephrase.

Because apparently DAI is just not a good game and not what you would expect Codex to vote as best RPG of the year.

Huh, I've been getting the opposite impression. Though of course I'm new and don't actually know how well the community received Dragon Age: Inquisition here. People elsewhere seem to be talking about it as one of the few decent games Bioware has made in recent years.

Regardless, I agree with everything else in your post. It doesn't make much sense to complain about how your favourite game didn't get on a publicly voted list, or whether a game should be excluded for "not being an RPG". Particularly since the definition of an RPG is very loose and has expanded over years, and there are quite a few games that bend genres and don't fit cleanly into one genre.

 

[Turjan]

Anyway, I'll show some of the more doubtful votes:...

Correcting a poll because you don't like the numbers given is equal to rigging the poll. You cannot do that if you want to have any validity in the poll. For corrections, you have to use formal criteria that are independent from the quality that is supposed to be measured by the poll, like excluding votes from people that voted on everything and only 1 and 5.

 

[Minttunator]

Jebus Christ you guys, what the hell happened to this thread?

 

[Durante]

Finally there is some crying and gnashing of teeth in here. The first few pages were boring.

 

[Goral]

Correcting a poll because you don't like the numbers given is equal to rigging the poll. You cannot do that if you want to have any validity in the poll. For corrections, you have to use formal criteria that are independent from the quality that is supposed to be measured by the poll, like excluding votes from people that voted on everything and only 1 and 5.

Except we're not "measuring " anything here. The feelings people have about each game are rather subjective, we're not for example measuring height of people or a time it takes a person to finish Wasteland 2. We're trying to rate banana, orange and pineapple to select the best fruit of them all.

 

[Ulminati]

IMO this result better reflects the value of each game. None of the above deserve a 1 mark (read: "it's shit") or 2 mark (read: "it's less smelly shit") and I can't imagine how anyone in good conscience could give such ratings to these games. I bet that those who gave these marks haven't even played these games, haven't played more than 1 hour or just wanted to skew the results so that their favourite game would win.

I kickstarted Wasteland 2. I played the beta and the finished game (until end of arizona where I put it down and never picked it up again because it was boring). I gave the game a well-deserved 2 on my vote because I found it very banal and not at all enjoyable.

Your "doubtful votes" seem to be mostly instances of "Waaaah someone rated WL2 lower than other games". Rating WL2 low is perfectly understandable because it is not a terribly good game.

 

[Goat Vomit]

Butthurt rant

Wasteland 2 came second in the poll I made, Divinity still came out on top making it trice picked as game of the year. Does that do anything to unrustle your jimmies?