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- Jan 28, 2011
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Hobgoblin: January may have been an impossible date, but it wasn't the only date they offered.
The main problem I have with this interview, is that bitComposer has this really crappy track record of releasing shitty unfinished games. Citadels, JA:BiA, you name it. That they kind of hand-waved the Citadels question by saying "it's, like, totally different; trust us!", didn't help either.
If not for that, I would be completely on their side; as things stand, however, I don't think they care about releasing a good game - they only seem to care about churning stuff out as fast as possible. Just my $0.02, of course.
No nothing. But it seems they had zero budget for the remake. It's a desaster and as big RoA fan I am ashamed, I hope Guido won't play it@HobGoblin42 Know anything about those Realms of Arkania guys?
For a publisher it can make sense to throw garbage on the market. No trial version and no reviews at launch time are good indications for that. Just to get a quick buck/euro until everybody realized how bad the product actually is (STEAM definitely needs to introduce refunding). One publisher cancels crappy projects and nobody will ever hear about it, other publishers just put it on the market.
JA:BiA had a trial version and everybody could test the game before spending money (one reason why calling JA:BiA shovelware is fundamentally wrong). And that's why I would always defend JA:BiA despite all trouble with bitComposer.
But for developers (especially small studios), releasing an unfinished bugfest can be a total desaster. It ruins your biography, it ruins your team motivation and you will lose your original intention to make games at all. In many case you will lose your company or job as well.
And most important of all: as developer you invest so much energy, time and passion into a game, seeing all this work going down the toilet can be very frustrating.
I am very sorry for the devs of Citadels, no matter if the incomplete state of their game was their fault (probably) or not.
I (and most Codexers i believe) am less interested to blame someone (bC or you) than to have the game. For all their faults bC seemed interested to reexamine the contract and continue development for CC.(unless they lied). Is Coreplay interested in continuing the project?For a publisher it can make sense to throw garbage on the market. No trial version and no reviews at launch time are good indications for that. Just to get a quick buck/euro until everybody realized how bad the product actually is (STEAM definitely needs to introduce refunding). One publisher cancels crappy projects and nobody will ever hear about it, other publishers just put it on the market.
JA:BiA had a trial version and everybody could test the game before spending money (one reason why calling JA:BiA shovelware is fundamentally wrong). And that's why I would always defend JA:BiA despite all trouble with bitComposer.
But for developers (especially small studios), releasing an unfinished bugfest can be a total desaster. It ruins your biography, it ruins your team motivation and you will lose your original intention to make games at all. In many case you will lose your company or job as well.
And most important of all: as developer you invest so much energy, time and passion into a game, seeing all this work going down the toilet can be very frustrating.
I am very sorry for the devs of Citadels, no matter if the incomplete state of their game was their fault (probably) or not.
For a publisher it can make sense to throw garbage on the market. No trial version and no reviews at launch time are good indications for that. Just to get a quick buck/euro until everybody realized how bad the product actually is (STEAM definitely needs to introduce refunding). One publisher cancels crappy projects and nobody will ever hear about it, other publishers just put it on the market.
JA:BiA had a trial version and everybody could test the game before spending money (one reason why calling JA:BiA shovelware is fundamentally wrong). And that's why I would always defend JA:BiA despite all trouble with bitComposer.
But for developers (especially small studios), releasing an unfinished bugfest can be a total desaster. It ruins your biography, it ruins your team motivation and you will lose your original intention to make games at all. In many case you will lose your company or job as well.
And most important of all: as developer you invest so much energy, time and passion into a game, seeing all this work going down the toilet can be very frustrating.
I am very sorry for the devs of Citadels, no matter if the incomplete state of their game was their fault (probably) or not.
All very true, and all part of the reason why I'm loathe to place any blame. I can fully understand the motivation of both parties in this case, and unless some new information surfaces, that's going to be my guiding star.
The only thing I take issue with here is the lack of even an attempt at finding agreement. That's because I, as primarily a fan and staff member of this site, am interested in one thing above all; the release of quality games. Thus my main concern now is why a deal cannot be worked out, and who is blocking conversation. I don't have faith in a new project because frankly, that sounds like a pipedream to me.
But I would like to ask you all these questions and more in a more official capacity, like I said. It's great you want to divulge this information, but most people won't see it buried on page 8 of this thread.
That is the million dollar question. You have to consider the possibility of an extension to current contracts. From what I have read bC would be interested in something like that, but Coreplay wouldn't. That to me is a breach of good faith on their part and consequently they have zero interest in the game seeing the light of day.Is Coreplay interested in continuing the project?
"Absurdian", the superior put-down, gets two results. Bugsidian gets five. Whyoware gets over 100 at the BSN.It is NOT tolerated. Let me say that again, it is NOT tolerated on official forums anywhere. The number #1 result for "obshitian" is the rpgcodex. There are ZERO results for the term on their official forums. While a search here brings up 5 pages of results.
"Absurdian", the superior put-down, gets two results. Bugsidian gets five. Whyoware gets over 100 at the BSN.It is NOT tolerated. Let me say that again, it is NOT tolerated on official forums anywhere. The number #1 result for "obshitian" is the rpgcodex. There are ZERO results for the term on their official forums. While a search here brings up 5 pages of results.
wut?
MIght be the morning or just my retardation but I don't even know what you mean.
Yeah, sorry, that was just too obscure a reference.
wut?
MIght be the morning or just my retardation but I don't even know what you mean.
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...on-chaos-chronicles.85242/page-7#post-2792952
What I don't understand is how it is apparently legal for the developer, who has a minority funding part for the project, to demand a renegotiation of the contract and failing to get it abandon the project altogether.
(Worse, bC was apparently willing to renegotiate but Coreplay expected a promise of the new contract to be signed on the spot. There of course many unknowns. For example, CP claims the bC stopped payments, bC claims it's because milestones were not delivered and new ones weren't proposed.)
Could someone explain how publisher-developer contracts typically deal with developer abandoning the project? I imagine there being an agreed fine.
What I don't understand is how it is apparently legal for the developer, who has a minority funding part for the project, to demand a renegotiation of the contract and failing to get it abandon the project altogether.
(Worse, bC was apparently willing to renegotiate but Coreplay expected a promise of the new contract to be signed on the spot. There of course many unknowns. For example, CP claims the bC stopped payments, bC claims it's because milestones were not delivered and new ones weren't proposed.)
Could someone explain how publisher-developer contracts typically deal with developer abandoning the project? I imagine there being an agreed fine.
This, as far as I'm concerned this is very much like say defaulting on a loan etc..How is this legal? Especially considering they also took money from the state of Baveria?
You cant just renegotiate contracts on a whim...EVEN if the contracts terms were unfavorable to your company....If that is the case then Foreplay shouldnt of signed anything with bC to begin with.
The whole point of remakes is to make an improved version of a game, not "it won't be as good as the original because we don't have skills to make it".I certainly agree that Citadels is pretty damning (I don't care if you want a return on your investment, you don't put out broken unfinished shit, you gambled and you lost), and that's why we asked about it. But JA:BiA wasn't unfinished or even really that shitty by some objective definition. It was certainly something the Codex and other people who hoped to see a real Jagged Alliance wouldn't like, but it was a pretty cool Commandos-like if looked at in a vacuum.