Interview RPG Codex Exclusive Interview: bitComposer's Take on the Chaos Chronicles Dispute

[BLOBERT]

BROS MORE LIKE FAGCOMPOSER LOLLOLLOLOL

 

[LeJosh]

BROS MORE LIKE FAGCOMPOSTER LOLLOLLOLOL

Fixed.

 

[Grunker]

I certainly agree that Citadels is pretty damning (I don't care if you want a return on your investment, you don't put out broken unfinished shit, you gambled and you lost), and that's why we asked about it. But JA:BiA wasn't unfinished or even really that shitty by some objective definition. It was certainly something the Codex and other people who hoped to see a real Jagged Alliance wouldn't like, but it was a pretty cool Commandos-like if looked at in a vacuum.

The whole point of remakes is to make an improved version of a game, not "it won't be as good as the original because we don't have skills to make it".

I don't really care what the point is. JA:BiA as a product can't be judged by what it's not, only by what it is, and what it is is an OK Commandos-like.

You and I may have much, much rather wanted a real Jagged Alliance game, but that doesn't make JA:BiA a worse Commandos-like.

Otherwise, you're just bitching that the dog ain't a cat.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I don't really care what the point is. JA:BiA as a product can't be judged by what it's not, only by what it is, and what it is is an OK Commandos-like.

You and I may have much, much rather wanted a real Jagged Alliance game, but that doesn't make JA:BiA a worse Commandos-like.

Otherwise, you're just bitching that the dog ain't a cat.

The dog is named cat. Also, the main reason for it being a Commandos-like is that they didn't have abilities to make a real JA2 remake which speaks badly about their ability to develop good cRPGs.

 

[Grunker]

I don't really care what the point is. JA:BiA as a product can't be judged by what it's not, only by what it is, and what it is is an OK Commandos-like.

You and I may have much, much rather wanted a real Jagged Alliance game, but that doesn't make JA:BiA a worse Commandos-like.

Otherwise, you're just bitching that the dog ain't a cat.

the main reason for it being a Commandos-like is that they didn't have abilities to make a real JA2 remake which speaks badly about their ability to develop good cRPGs.

Where do you know this from? We have statements to the exact opposite (from both sources) actually, which fit nicely with the fact that 1:1 copying is easier than developing your own systems. But I suppose your just talking from you gut like the proverbial Colbert, huh? I'm far more liable to blame width of target audience than incapability to copy/paste design.

 

[made]

Lord, how sad is my life...

Oh well, here goes:

The number #1 result for "obshitian" is the rpgcodex. There are ZERO results for the term on their official forums. While a search here brings up 5 pages of results.

Half of them by skyway, I'd wager. Does the number or the posts where we call them Obshitian matter in the grand scheme of things or the ones where we substantiate why their games are shit?

It's not just "other places" moderate, it's every other place moderates. You're here so maybe you don't see it - but we are unique in that respect.

Well, I thought we're unique in that we can freely say stuff sucks while we rationalize why it sucks, not that we make up funny names for it. That's just background noise most people gloss over. While I certainly appreciate that I can call Weisman a kike without facing a ban, I could just as comfortably wage Jihad against his DRM infested mobile game within the confines of his kosher official forum - and with the same effect.

will you be taking any action? Because they could.

But they won't. Why would they? If they were worried about their reputation they wouldn't host their forum here. Shit is bound to hit the fan anyway if the game sucks, or has DRM, or has fags in it, or... Surely they knew beforehand and were OK with it?

Even now, you are arguing that we shouldn't have used that language in the interview.

Not really. Had you addressed them as ShitComposer in every question of the interview - that would have been mildly amusing. But you didn't (for obvious reasons). You just pointed out insults (if we can even call it that) on a forum that has a rep for insults. Pointless imo.

Really? This was all obvious?

Well, it certainly didn't come as a surprise. They talk about it in the other interview which Grunker also referenced in this one.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Where do you know this from? We have statements to the exact opposite (from both sources) actually, which fit nicely with the fact that 1:1 copying is easier than developing your own systems.

I remember them explaining themselves that it would be too difficult to make a game on level of sophistication of JA2. I don't remember if it was the publisher or the developer, though.

I'm far more liable to blame width of target audience than incapability to copy/paste design.

You mean re-creating one of the most sophisticated cRPGs ever created with modern technology? I bet it's much easier than making a Commandos clone without fog of war.

 

[Grunker]

I bet it's much easier than making a Commandos clone without fog of war.

Huh? I was talking about target audience. JA:BiA wasn't targeted at the Codex, it was targeted at other audiences (wider audiences).

 

[mindx2]

You can't force someone to work for you, only that they honor the agreement, which means bC could demand Coreplay repay everything they invested in Chaos Chronicles. If bC went to court and won, forcing Coreplay to pay damages, Coreplay would probably go insolvent. I doubt anyone wants that (then one gets anything - neither bC or Coreplay). bC wants a return on their investment. What Coreplay want is anyone's guess.

A contract is still a contract and Bitcomposser put the lion's share of the money into this thing. If they want to recoup some of that it might be in their best interest to go to court and take the game as damages and find another studio to finish it. I certainly don't see that as having any kind of happy result as far as a good game being released but if Coreplay is going to stick their fingers in their ears and keeps yelling "I won't, I won't work on this anymore more!" like a four year old told to finish his chores then BC may have no choice.

 

[Grunker]

You can't force someone to work for you, only that they honor the agreement, which means bC could demand Coreplay repay everything they invested in Chaos Chronicles. If bC went to court and won, forcing Coreplay to pay damages, Coreplay would probably go insolvent. I doubt anyone wants that (then one gets anything - neither bC or Coreplay). bC wants a return on their investment. What Coreplay want is anyone's guess.

A contract is still a contract and Bitcomposser put the lion's share of the money into this thing. If they want to recoup some of that it might be in their best interest to go to court and take the game as damages and find another studio to finish it.

Maybe they will, but it's an exceedingly sub-optimal options for all parties involved, so I doubt it will come to that.

 

[zeitgeist]

I don't really care what the point is. JA:BiA as a product can't be judged by what it's not, only by what it is, and what it is is an OK Commandos-like.

It's what's not there that makes what's there what it is.

 

[Rake]

You can't force someone to work for you, only that they honor the agreement, which means bC could demand Coreplay repay everything they invested in Chaos Chronicles. If bC went to court and won, forcing Coreplay to pay damages, Coreplay would probably go insolvent. I doubt anyone wants that (then one gets anything - neither bC or Coreplay). bC wants a return on their investment. What Coreplay want is anyone's guess.

A contract is still a contract and Bitcomposser put the lion's share of the money into this thing. If they want to recoup some of that it might be in their best interest to go to court and take the game as damages and find another studio to finish it.

Maybe they will, but it's an exceedingly sub-optimal options for all parties involved, so I doubt it will come to that.

Yes but can they come to an agreement about an optimal option for all parties involved? So far it seems not, and coreplay seems to have abandoned the project. Ffs they already mentioned they started another project. And i'm sure they haven't the manpower to work on 2 projects at the same time.

 

[Bubbles]

Probably going to get a Kickstarter seen.

 

[fanta]

Maybe they will, but it's an exceedingly sub-optimal options for all parties involved, so I doubt it will come to that.

Perhaps, but Coreplay going "bC , finish the game yourselves lol" is even more sub-optimal for bC (an euphemism if I ever saw one). Perhaps there is a contract clause that lets Coreplay leave relatively easily though.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

So TurdComposer are innocent and Corpseplay are the ones stalling? If shit escalates like that - both sides fucked up.

 

[fanta]

So TurdComposer are innocent and Corpseplay are the ones stalling? If shit escalates like that - both sides fucked up.

I've never suggested ScatComposer is pure as snow and CockPlay are the villains. The only things we know with reasonable certainty are:

1. bC demanded a plan for release in January 2013 (bC says - it was the original agreed release data and other possible dates were suggested for planning too, CP says - the January 2013 release date was completely unreasonable).
2. bC stopped delivering the payments.
3. Following the appearance of a new investor, Coreplay demanded a contract renegotiation.
4. Coreplay expected a quick signing of a new contract and failing to get it refused further negotiations and abandoned the project.

We can either discuss these or pull stuff out of thin air.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

The number #1 result for "obshitian" is the rpgcodex. There are ZERO results for the term on their official forums. While a search here brings up 5 pages of results.

Half of them by skyway, I'd wager.

You'd wager wrong. Of the 63 results, Skyway only has 4. You actually get a spattering of names, which is part of the point.

Does the number or the posts where we call them Obshitian matter in the grand scheme of things

Apparently. After all, you're the one whining about terms like that being used. If it didn't matter, you wouldn't be whining about it - hence the interview question. IE: "Does this matter?"

It's not just "other places" moderate, it's every other place moderates. You're here so maybe you don't see it - but we are unique in that respect.

Well, I thought we're unique in that we can freely say stuff sucks while we rationalize why it sucks

And yet you casually mentioned that half of the "obSHITian" references are made by Skyway, presumably inferring they're a half-assed remark made without any substantiation behind it because that's what Skyway does, "everything is shit etc..".

That's just background noise most people gloss over.

And yet here you are, complaining about it again.

While I certainly appreciate that I can call Weisman a kike without facing a ban, I could just as comfortably wage Jihad against his DRM infested mobile game within the confines of his kosher official forum - and with the same effect.

Is that what you're whining about though? All you're whining about is that we specifically mentioned a word bitComposer are being called - quite regularly on these forums now, usually without much more behind it.

will you be taking any action? Because they could.

But they won't. Why would they? If they were worried about their reputation they wouldn't host their forum here. Shit is bound to hit the fan anyway if the game sucks, or has DRM, or has fags in it, or... Surely they knew beforehand and were OK with it?

I don't know. That's why we asked, innit? That is kind of the point of an interview. Going in assuming answers is all great, but the point is to actually find out - in their own words - from the person you're asking. Rather than just speculating or throwing hyperbole and supposition around.

Because by the same token we could've just said "well, we know bitComposer will totally blame Coreplay so there's no point interviewing them at all really". I mean, did you really learn anything new?

Even now, you are arguing that we shouldn't have used that language in the interview.

Not really.

Really? Because this seemed like sarcasm to me:

I agree than the interviewee must be made aware of what names he/his company are being called on our forum. After all, we must differentiate ourselves from all the witless gaming forums out there, and I hope this practice makes its way into all interviews from now on.

Maybe you were being sirius tho...

Had you addressed them as ShitComposer in every question of the interview - that would have been mildly amusing.

Oh, you were...

But you didn't (for obvious reasons). You just pointed out insults (if we can even call it that) on a forum that has a rep for insults. Pointless imo.

It was mentioned in one question - specifically about their reputation and the impact this dispute will have on it, in an interview of many questions. FFS get over it already and do some of that "glossing" you talk about - assuming that is, this really is such a non-issue for you. Again, if you're actually right and they really did know what they were getting into, then it's a complete non-issue isn't it? I mean you just said that bitComposer know the Codex right, they knew what they signed up for, so then what's the issue asking them about it?

 

[jewboy]

I don't know whether to blame Coreplay because one of the founders jumped ship and allowed a dirty scumbag lawyer on board and/or because they were so far behind schedule and maybe spent Bitcomposer's cash on heroin and underage whores or Bitcomposer because they were pressing too hard for a quick release and did not have sufficient trust in coreplay to sink more money into an already risky project or the cunt lawyer himself for being a cunt and screwing up what little trust was left between publisher and developer.

It does sound like if it hadn't been for the lawyer Coreplay and Bitcomposer may have been able to come to an agreement in which Coreplay gets the time it needs and Bitcomposer gets back at least some of the money they've invested with game sales. Strangely it's really the evil publisher that is getting fucked here. It sounds like Bitcomposer is writing their investment off as a total loss. I'd be curious to know which Coreplay dev actually left the company and why. Was game development work just not exciting enough for him? Did he have a brain tumor? An insatiable appetite for having sex with sheep?

 

[Infinitron]

Oh. Pfft, I thought you knew something more interesting. Back to fistharvesting with you.

Not interesting? Well, you don't know how much money we're talking about here.

I don't know whether to blame Coreplay because one of the founders jumped ship and allowed a dirty scumbag lawyer on board and/or because they were so far behind schedule and maybe spent Bitcomposer's cash on heroin and underage whores or Bitcomposer because they were pressing too hard for a quick release and did not have sufficient trust in coreplay to sink more money into an already risky project or the cunt lawyer himself for being a cunt and screwing up what little trust was left between publisher and developer.

It does sound like if it hadn't been for the lawyer Coreplay and Bitcomposer may have been able to come to an agreement in which Coreplay gets the time it needs and Bitcomposer gets back at least some of the money they've invested with game sales. Strangely it's really the evil publisher that is getting fucked here. It sounds like Bitcomposer is writing their investment off as a total loss. I'd be curious to know which Coreplay dev actually left the company and why. Was game development work just not exciting enough for him? Did he have a brain tumor? An insatiable appetite for having sex with sheep?

Hobgoblin has hinted that he was frustrated with publisher deadlines, or something like that.

 

[FalkonSwiftblade]

well at least it ended on a high note. I wonder if they open the game for preorder if they'd get the funding they needed to finish. I got the impression the game was pretty far along and maybe needs ~6 more months.

 

[St. Toxic]

They should switch back to XBLA so I don't have to torrent it.

 

[Micmu]

so that's it for chaos cronicles then, eh?

shit got composted I guess

 

[Grimlorn]

So Coreplay was working on an expansion in July 2012, then started developing Chaos Chronicles, and Bitcomposer wanted it done by January 2013?

 

[HobGoblin42]

I've sent Grunker our official statement, I guess it will bring some enlightement.

And as I already mentioned, his facts are not entirely wrong, but he 'forgot' to mention our ongoing works on the JA:BiA products until July 2012. And those (additional) works were the reason why the original time schedule for 'Chaos Chronicles' became obsolete. By not mentioning that, the developer looks like a lazy bunch of unorganized amateurs.

 

[Infinitron]

So Coreplay was working on an expansion in July 2012, then started developing Chaos Chronicles, and Bitcomposer wanted it done by January 2013?

According to the interview:

WD: The full production of Chaos Chronicles began in 2011, based on the prototype from 2010. The full production was also supported by external funding through FFF Bayern. To get this funding, Coreplay needed to find a publisher to cover the majority part of the investment, and then contract them to do the game and handle worldwide marketing and sales. As we already financed the prototype on a minority basis and liked the concept, we agreed to continue the project together with Coreplay and the support of FFF Bayern. The overall individual investments for each party was as follows (sorry, we cannot mention the specific amounts): 67% funded by bitComposer, 28% funded through FFF Bayern—based on bitComposer commitment—and 5% funded by Coreplay. Coreplay suggested we use the ongoing contracts that had been in place since 2009, and so we did an addendum to those.

So, somebody here is lying.

However, Duhr does say that June 2012 is when "the scope increased" (the change from Myth of Glory to Chaos Chronicles). According to Coreplay, that's basically when they started developing the game.

Could this really be a situation of bitComposer going "LOL, what do you mean you haven't been working on the game all this time?"