RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Junmarko]

Does that mean "yes"?

Infinitron has been hacked.

 

[Sentinel]

So you call SJWs retarded for boycotting Vavra’s KCD, because they interpret his edgy tweets as sign of being a Nazi. Urqhart being a cutthroat corporate a—hole is a legit reason though. Talk about hypocris.

what
one is purely politics the other is a company being absolute piles of shit with one of the longest, most respected employees they have while knowing he's in a very tough personal situation. Not only that, knowing a very close relative was in a bad situation, they try to leverage that to their advantage.

Do you not see the difference?

 

[Prime Junta]

When you start to see dangerhairs and nerdy grrrls popping up in a developer's publicity material on the regular, the well has already been poisoned.

I call confirmation bias.

When one of your most visible star devs gives a public talk on the evils of crunch and the pressing need for unionisation, though, it suggests that you might have a problem.

 

[Tovias]

Sounds like Obsidian management is one hell of a mess and the developers, and games they develope, are paying dearly for it.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Waaaaaaaaait a minute. "Sudden" cancellation?

It usually extends a month beyond the date of departure (the time is granted so you can schedule health appts, which you can’t usually do quickly). I got 2 days.

Oh shit. Chris, I'm so sorry. Nobody should be treated like that, least of all long-time co-worker and co-founder. I know that you don't know us, but I think I can speak for a very large group here when I say that we all are proud that you've beat this shit. And we wish you won't quit, because it will deprive us from your creative talents, and, given the new information, basically Obsi will win. Than again, do what you feel is needed to be done, we always will be here for you.

Also this case is another argument on why all game developers must form a union. If MCA can be treated that way, imagine the fate of less senior developer.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Seriously, as much sympathy as I feel for CA and as much as that family-situation leverage feels stomach turning, wishing for Obsidian to fail is stupid, since most people there probably had no influence on it and would become collateral damage.

 

[thekdawg21]

Also this case is another argument on why all game developers must form a union. If MCA can be treated that way, imagine the fate of less senior developer.

Yeah, I lost my benefits instantly upon being fired. Would've been the same if I resigned.

 

[AwesomeButton]

This kind of treatment of employees by management in software development is nothing new.

The idiotic moment where they called him and asked, hey former Employee, we just fucked you in the ass, but it's all business, so would you like to come back and work on a project we have, is soo typical that I imagined it as if I have been there.

 

[Quillon]

MCA needed to have a lawyer/a better lawyer. How did they make an owner leave without taking anything? Plus all that other shit. I've always assumed they paid him something equal to what his shares on the company were.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Well, catching up on this thread has been an elucidating and thoroughly depressing experience. I never really had any doubts that when all was said and done Obsidian was going to operate as a business first and foremost. But to pull some tricks like that on a long-time fellow developer is just beyond reprehensible. I've already got PoE II in my steam library and will play it next week, but I'm going to be thinking long and hard about whether I want to give them a single cent ever again. It'll be a difficult internal struggle if the Boarsky/Cain project ends up showing a great deal of promise.

Chris Avellone, glad you were able to pull through a difficult time by your own means. Sorry you had to deal with that bullshit.

 

[Orma]

Chris Avellone discloses all the employer abuse ON THE 1ST OF MAY, you guys think it's a coincidence?

 

[Azarkon]

I imagine Obsidian will certainly respond to Chris's claims, either with a law suit, or with a public statement, probably both. The details given here by Chris are of such a damning nature that anything less than a complete rebuttal with transcripts, etc., showing that Chris is a liar, will lead to a massive publicity loss for Obsidian. Enough so, I'd argue, to significantly affect their revenues and relations with the industry, going forward. Using Chris's debts to effectively force him out of the industry is not just business as usual; it's highly immoral behavior that is border line, or even straight up, criminal. This is beyond any company drama we've participated in, in perhaps the last few decades.

A fire has been started this day that will not be easily extinguished.

 

[Blaine]

I call confirmation bias.

Yeah, you do seem the type to resort to name-dropping fallacies and biases when backed into a corner, on a discussion forum where fallacies and biases are more ubiquitous than air.

In any event, not to worry: By the end of the decade, the pile of ruined (by Codexian standards) development studios will be stacked high enough that we'll have an adequate sample size to either confirm or refute my supposed confirmation bias.

 

[ga♥]

I also think Fenstermaker really misunderstood MCA...oh maybe he understood it but still wanted to reply to mantain a bridge with Obsidian.

It seems clear MCA is happy he left... just because the managment seems horrible, so he is basically happy FOR HIM. Because he evidently cares for you Eric.


(Just speculations on my side no libel lawsuit plz)

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Hold up, Chris Avellone, this is a very important question. In the bullshit noncompete they wanted you to sign, where you would've been prevented from working on RPGs, how did they define an RPG? This may be the closest we're ever going to get to a definitive answer.

 

[Prime Junta]

MCA needed to have a lawyer/a better lawyer. How did they make an owner leave without taking anything? Plus all that other shit. I've always assumed they paid him something equal to what his shares on the company were.

That was my assumption also. They must have gotten him to sign a really fucking unfair SHA when they founded the company. Normally in that kind of situation ownership is vested over time -- if you quit in, say, three years, you might have to forfeit your share, but after a certain cut-off point it's yours to dispose of however you like.

 

[Haba]

I do get that difference. My main point is the studio is never just one guy. Should the 100s of other people there be harmed for their boss’s shitty behavior?

It is not a fucking "boss". The upper management seems to be the issue and the upper management also reaps any potential profits. They are the company.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

I do get that difference. My main point is the studio is never just one guy. Should the 100s of other people there be harmed for their boss’s shitty behavior?

You need to consider that is not just about trying to ruin Avellone, but also the implicit suggestions involving harassment, perjury, among other things. If you think that everyone will continue working there after hearing this you need to stop and think. Besides, they can always get a job in another studio. That's common in the game industry and it's not perceived as the end of the world, that's for sure.

 

[ga♥]

MCA needed to have a lawyer/a better lawyer. How did they make an owner leave without taking anything? Plus all that other shit. I've always assumed they paid him something equal to what his shares on the company were.

It's not that hard, MCA was an owner (had shares) and at the same time was an employee.
It seems like he was fired (?), no more an employee, but he still has the shares.

 

[agentorange]

So you call SJWs retarded for boycotting Vavra’s KCD, because they interpret his edgy tweets as sign of being a Nazi. Urqhart being a cutthroat corporate a—hole is a legit reason though. Talk about hypocris.

what
one is purely politics the other is a company being absolute piles of shit with one of the longest, most respected employees they have while knowing he's in a very tough personal situation. Not only that, knowing a very close relative was in a bad situation, they try to leverage that to their advantage.

Do you not see the difference?

I do get that difference. My main point is the studio is never just one guy. Should the 100s of other people there be harmed for their boss’s shitty behavior?

Look at the obverse. Is it fair for a bunch of scheming fucks to get away with treating someone so unjustly because they are able to hide behind their innocent employees? You say if anything happened to Obsidian it would be harmful to the employees on the lower rungs, but what happened to Avellone could very likely happen to any other employee (and as it is sudden layoffs are part and parcel for the gaming industry so it's not like many of these people are guaranteed stability even as it stands at the moment). The best outcome is that the people at the top, the people who are supposed to be the trustworthy foundation of the company, are held accountable for what they've done.

 

[Infinitron]

You guys are jumping too far ahead. Right now there must be dozens of people at Obsidian, many of them new employees, who are excited to be working on a new IP by the original creators of Fallout. Avellone drama doesn't relate to them.

 

[Quillon]

but he still has the shares.

Doubt it. Else supporting Obs means supporting MCA :D

 

[Fry]

MCA needed to have a lawyer/a better lawyer. How did they make an owner leave without taking anything?

We know nothing about the original ownership agreement, so any speculation is bullshit... but this does seem very odd. Why did Chris accept nothing? His allusions to HR make me wonder if there was some sort of incident he's not talking about.

 

[Azarkon]

It's unlikely that this shitstorm will do much to their bottom line. Suing MCA, however, might sink them. Mega bad publicity stretched over a long time, it would poison the working atmosphere dividing the place into loyal drones and a fifth column, there would likely be resignations among key people, it would get that much harder to hire new talent, and so on and so forth.

If they're at all smart, they'll hunker down with a curt "No comment" to any inquiries until this blows over. And it will, unless they do something as egregiously stupid as making this into a juicy court case.

They can't. The claims are too severe. They'd have to categorically deny them. And should Chris provide more evidence, that wouldn't be possible. Unless Obsidian has much more industry influence than we think, it's be very difficult for them to shut out news media from covering this drama. Unless Chris himself wants to bury it, and refuses to give more comments and interviews, it shouldn't just blow over with a simple no comment.

 

[DeepOcean]

I won't give Feargus a single cent of my money, even if you still enjoy Obsidian games, this is the moral thing to do.