RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Jenkem]

Where was their "journalistic integrity" when they made article after article about Daniel Vavra being a literal neo-nazi gamergater because he wore a Burzum shirt and/or didn't put black people in his game about 15th century bumfuck slavland

They simply don't want to ruin their chances of having dinner at the Cheesecake Factory on Obsidian's dime.

 

[Blaine]

Some codexians have speculated that this hesitation from the press stems from journalistic integrity in not wanting to report unverified allegations....

Idiots. Idiots is the applicable term.

The "press" have jumped the gun and reported hoaxes that they've had to retract (if they ever bothered to). "A source familiar with the matter" is all they require to report with "integrity," as long as it's not something that will upset their paymasters.

Broadcasting a former key employee's airing of a studio's dirty laundry would put them on the blacklists of every developer and publisher in the industry, even if it were demonstrably true. Probably an entire handful of former employees echoing Chris' words wouldn't be sufficient.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Did this sort of thing happen to Josh Sawyer on Pillars of Eternity?

If not, had you been the lead on Pillars of Eternity instead, do you think it would have happened to you?

1. I don't know (management decisions like that were often between just Josh and Feargus, and there's other examples of that in this thread).

Feargus and Josh would often make what I would consider to be owner decisions independently. For example, I heard about Josh becoming Project Director second-hand (before you read into that as a negative or I wanted it, I didn't for reasons said earlier - I was fine with that decision, but I didn't like how the decision was made: hearing about it secondhand and not discussing it with the other owners I felt wasn't a good practice even if I would have agreed to the decision).

I do think Josh has an advantage with Feargus b/c Feargus is a little needy (I don't have a better word for this, and I actually don't mean to be insulting with this)* when it comes to seeking Josh's approval - I suspect this is because it makes Feargus feel good to have someone like Josh respect his opinion and listen to him, and I think Josh works with that very effectively (it's a good talent for a Director to manage upwards, and Feargus has got some easy tells you can manipulate if you know what to look for).

Feargus is the same way with Jones and Parker - those were the only two people he would ever seem to listen to because he really wanted their approval in a strange way.

2. I wouldn't have been lead on PoE, so I couldn't say. I also turned down leading the Planescape Kickstarter Feargus wanted me to do (although there was more to it than that).

That said, it wasn't all negative. Feargus barely interfered with the DLCs and said I did a good job with them - when he did get involved briefly, it was much the same suffering as other projects went through when they had his attention. I also had the blessing of Parker barely being involved in the DLCs as well, which was a godsend.

* Getting to the end of this, "insecure" isn't quite the word, but maybe "validated" might work - overall, Feargus wanted people to respect him and his opinions - unless he had no respect for the person he was dealing with, at which point, he didn't care.

 

[Sentinel]

When you say "Feargus barely interfered with the DLCs", you mean the FNV ones, right? You didn't write for White March, as far as I know, correct?

 

[Elex]

Chris Avellone, the gaming press has largely ignored this thread thus far, with only TechRaptor reporting in the anglosphere. A few foreign sites have reported on it, notably GameStar. It has, however, been discussed at varying lengths on the obsidian forums, /v/, something awful, resetera, and several other smaller sites and subreddits. In the resetera thread Jason Schreier said he was looking into it but not necessarily writing an article. Some codexians have speculated that this hesitation from the press stems from journalistic integrity in not wanting to report unverified allegations, which frankly is inconsistent given their track record regarding not only allegations of impropriety within workplaces but also when it comes to leaks, or rumours, or rumours of leaks. Others here have suggested a fear of legal action or other pressure is causing the silence. Perhaps they're waiting for the resignations or Paradox response you mentioned earlier before running with it, or some form of legal action on your part.

Why do you think this is being ignored, and what message would you send to members of the media who're undoubtedly monitoring this thread?

press is clearly waiting for poe 2 release.
it will become one of those article with an endless list of

UPDATE x/xx/18

 

[Roguey]

Jessica's really attractive though. Like "Are you sure you two are blood-related..?" attractive.

Edit: fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Jessica_Edge you people

 

[Sentinel]

Feargus and Josh would often make what I would consider to be owner decisions independently. For example, I heard about Josh becoming Project Director second-hand (before you read into that as a negative or I wanted it, I didn't for reasons said earlier - I was fine with that decision, but I didn't like how the decision was made: hearing about it secondhand and not discussing it with the other owners I felt wasn't a good practice even if I would have agreed to the decision).

I do think Josh has an advantage with Feargus b/c Feargus is a little needy (I don't have a better word for this, and I actually don't mean to be insulting with this)* when it comes to seeking Josh's approval - I suspect this is because it makes Feargus feel good to have someone like Josh respect his opinion and listen to him, and I think Josh works with that very effectively (it's a good talent for a Director to manage upwards, and Feargus has got some easy tells you can manipulate if you know what to look for).

Sawyer truly is balance incarnate. Even brings balance to Feargus.

 

[mildTea]

5 years from now some 'Codex Lurker leaves his basement dwelling somewhere in California to get something to eat. On the corner there is a food truck manned by a cheerful guy in a Hawaian shirt sporting a greying goatee. It's twilight hours and the cheerful cook is about to close his modest venue when the Lurker approaches him and chooses a meal named Coral Court noodles. The name sounds familiar and the Lurker immediately realizes the cheerful cook is no other than Tim Cain himself. Wondering about the current situation he strikes a conversation with Tim asking what's happened to the rumoured AAA project 5 years ago and why it got canceled.

And Tim explains him in a somewhat tired manner the complicated circumstances of the unlucky fate of Project Indiana. Apparently, the accusations of tax fraud left by CA on 'Codex and reported to IRS by one of the forum members triggered an audit in the company. As it turns out, FU had been mismanaging and scheming with taxes for a long time and the protracted investigation put the studio in turmoil. The unhealthy atmosphere in the company thickened, especially after a lukewarm reception of Deadfire. Paychecks became irregular and people started to leave the company. While Take2 tried to salvage the situation and incorporate the Project Indiana team as their internal developer, it didn't work out as the plan was deemed to be too expensive and not worth the risk. The money went instead into polishing Red Dead Redemption 2 which was about to be published.

Tim adds that he's happy though. He can now follow his cooking passion and live a relatively stress-free life. He still occasionally freelances for other developers when he feels the itch, but mostly he's just travelling across the Golden State and enjoys the freedom. He doesn't miss the toxic environment of everyday game-development a single bit. He's had enough.

Our Lurker is somewhat sad that he never got the occasion to play the great 'Cainarsky' game, but upon learning of the inner workings of Obsidian he is not so sure the game would turn out great. The upper management could have interfered and micromanage and the whole project could end up halfassed with the Cain and Boyarsky's reputations tarnished a bit. To remedy this sad feeling the Lurker reinstalls PS:T and starts his 37th playthrough. Before starting the game he doesn't forget to create an account on 'Codex and brag that he just got served noodles by Tim Cain.

 

[Zed]

2. I wouldn't have been lead on PoE, so I couldn't say. I also turned down leading the Planescape Kickstarter Feargus wanted me to do (although there was more to it than that).

This wasn't the inXile one? An Obsidian Planescape kickstarter?

 

[Blaine]

I do think Josh has an advantage with Feargus b/c Feargus is a little needy (I don't have a better word for this, and I actually don't mean to be insulting with this)* when it comes to seeking Josh's approval - I suspect this is because it makes Feargus feel good to have someone like Josh respect his opinion and listen to him, and I think Josh works with that very effectively (it's a good talent for a Director to manage upwards, and Feargus has got some easy tells you can manipulate if you know what to look for).

Blaine confirmed for prophet once again. Positive ratings you will bestow, else be cursed with seven years of woe.

Well, Sawyer and Avellone are mutually not following each other on Twitter. Considering Avellone does follow other developers currently working at Obsidian (i.e. Mikey Dowling), that's probably a good indication of how things stand between them.

 

[Infinitron]

2. I wouldn't have been lead on PoE, so I couldn't say. I also turned down leading the Planescape Kickstarter Feargus wanted me to do (although there was more to it than that).

This wasn't the inXile one? An Obsidian Planescape kickstarter?

Yeah, that's something Fairfax has talked about before I believe. We never heard anything about it other than that Chris wasn't interested.

 

[Lycra Suit]

I also turned down leading the Planescape Kickstarter Feargus wanted me to do (although there was more to it than that).

What? Why not?

Of all the people in this world you would be the one qualified to direct a sequel. That would be like the Godfather II not having been directed by Copolla.

 

[Plane Escapee]

Chris Avellone I'm glad to hear that you're currently in a set-up that makes you happy and working on projects that do the same. I hope that will also eventually translate into a finished something where your contribution and signature is more substantial and evocative of the kind of work we mostly associate you with!

Can you say anything - however vague - about the work you're doing with Ken?
Irrationals Freedom Force and Freedom Force vs. The 3rd Reich are some of my favourite gaming memories and I think it is by far the best and most satisfying implementation of a tactical Real-time With Pause system ever done. If there ever arises a moment where it would be natural to bring it up, please ask if he could and/or would ever bring it back. Genuine sequel or spiritual successor... either would do! Even a remaster would be great. Or at least let him know that there are people who really, really enjoyed that work of his!

And again, thanks for everything. You the man

 

[Sentinel]

I also turned down leading the Planescape Kickstarter Feargus wanted me to do (although there was more to it than that).

What? Why not?

Of all the people in this world you would be the one qualified to direct a sequel. That would be like the Godfather II not having been directed by Copolla.

He already explained why he refused to direct anything at Obsidian. see last 2 pages.

 

[Surf Solar]

Where was their "journalistic integrity" when they made article after article about Daniel Vavra being a literal neo-nazi gamergater because he wore a Burzum shirt and/or didn't put black people in his game about 15th century bumfuck slavland

They simply don't want to ruin their chances of having dinner at the Cheesecake Factory on Obsidian's dime.

It was weekend. Give it some time.

 

[Lycra Suit]

ok my bad.

 

[The_Time_Master]

brag that he just got served noodles by Tim Cain.

But were the noodles... salty?

 

[Mikeal]

Sawyer truly is balance incarnate. Even brings balance to Feargus.

He is newest incarnation of Eternal Champion.

 

[Zed]

2. I wouldn't have been lead on PoE, so I couldn't say. I also turned down leading the Planescape Kickstarter Feargus wanted me to do (although there was more to it than that).

This wasn't the inXile one? An Obsidian Planescape kickstarter?

Yeah, that's something Fairfax has talked about before I think. We never heard anything other than that Chris wasn't interested.

ah, did a quick search and found this https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...lares-that-it-is-open-to-licensing-planescape

it's funny Fargo didn't get it, even (I assume) pitching the project with McComb
maybe WOTC aren't as stupid as I thought

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

I do think Josh has an advantage with Feargus b/c Feargus is a little needy (I don't have a better word for this, and I actually don't mean to be insulting with this)* when it comes to seeking Josh's approval - I suspect this is because it makes Feargus feel good to have someone like Josh respect his opinion and listen to him, and I think Josh works with that very effectively (it's a good talent for a Director to manage upwards, and Feargus has got some easy tells you can manipulate if you know what to look for).

It seems all that hate wasn't wasted after all. Incline!

 

[Infinitron]

2. I wouldn't have been lead on PoE, so I couldn't say. I also turned down leading the Planescape Kickstarter Feargus wanted me to do (although there was more to it than that).

This wasn't the inXile one? An Obsidian Planescape kickstarter?

Yeah, that's something Fairfax has talked about before I think. We never heard anything other than that Chris wasn't interested.

ah, did a quick search and found this https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...lares-that-it-is-open-to-licensing-planescape

it's funny Fargo didn't get it, even (I assume) pitching the project with McComb
maybe WOTC aren't as stupid as I thought

I think this Obsidian Planescape idea preceded that article, it's something that was discussed before even the Project Eternity Kickstarter. I'm not sure they even got as far as talking to WotC. Perhaps Chris can enlighten us.

 

[MajorMace]

Hey Chris Avellone , you said you think Sawyer is a good project director. I now understand that you meant to say he's good at taming the insecure Half-Orc. You're a cunning man and avoided to answer the actual question : do you think he's a good designer ?
Or if you prefer this question, who would have been your personal preference as a designer for poe and/or deadfire (including the Sawyer option) ?

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

I mean, if that wasn't the case, then you fucking informed Codexians might have saved the game with your feedback right???

I liked the part about the memory of death. Sensuki made a bunch of videos and I think he played the beta more than any developer or QA inside Obsidian, but he was ignored in everything. Roxor wrote a detailed tome review, and the sequel has the same problems. So yeah, they simply don't give a fuck.

 

[Abu Antar]

My biggest concern isn't that Chris isn't answering my questions. I'm afraid the other owners will aks him to come over on a boat trip to talk things through...

 

[Chris Avellone]

Chris Avellone Let me push back on this a bit. We could say that there's a glass half-empty or glass half-full way of looking at these things. You see Feargus roping in these big publishers and then alienating them, as with the Stormlands cancellation, and conclude that he's a fuck-up. And that's natural, because you have paid a large personal price for these cancellations.

But other people might say, hey, it's incredible that Feargus managed to get a deal to make an Xbox One exclusive in the first place, because that's something that the notorious "Bugsidian" probably wasn't really up to par for (as I'm sure you'd agree).

But here's my real question: Were you fired/forced to resign/"de-ownered"/etc from Obsidian because you refused to become a project lead?

That's a good question. A reason wasn't given at all beyond I could still work on Tyranny (which isn't firing, it's a shift of position, but obviously, still punishing).

I did get a vague comment about "no longer being a financial fit" but that was something Feargus told to other employees around the same time (this was shortly before the Pillars royalties came in, so for all I know, the studio may have been in financial trouble, but I wouldn't have known b/c it was too hard to extract the financials).

The Pillars royalties largely were coming to the owners, however, which put the move in a suspicious light.

As I said before, I don't think any owner deserved royalties for Pillars beyond maybe Darren for his Backer portal work, even as late as it was.

I didn't ask for the reason for the de-ownering, and I doubt I would have gotten one. I didn't take the position on Tyranny, as I've said, although with my finances and the family situation, it would be untrue of me to say I didn't at least think about it - but it wasn't because I wanted to continue to work there, the Tyranny offer was another leverage attempt for multiple reasons. I ultimately turned it down.