RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Edmund Spenser]

From Feargus' "Currently Reading" list:

Learn Better: Mastering the Skills for Success in Life, Business, and School, or, How to Become an Expert in Just About Anything

lol

 

[Cael]

From Feargus' "Currently Reading" list:

Learn Better: Mastering the Skills for Success in Life, Business, and School, or, How to Become an Expert in Just About Anything

lol

"How to become an expert in just about anything" = "How to bullshit convincingly"

 

[Fairfax]

The goodreads is worse than I thought.
Come to think of it, I'm also responsible for the post that revealed Dark Rock Industries and the interview that led to this thread. I hope I'm on your shitlist, Feargus. I believe I've earned it.

 

[Azarkon]

Got to give it to Feargus, though he might be a poor manager, he sure does have a passion for reading fantasy and video game novels.

Then again, maybe the two are related.

 

[Cael]

Got to give it to Feargus, though he might be a poor manager, he sure does have a passion for reading fantasy and video game novels.

Then again, maybe the two are related.

I can conclusively tell you that it is not the case.

 

[MRY]

Like a Russian novel, this thread contains all of human frailty and nobility in its thousands of pages. But the detail that will stick to me is that the interactions described at Obsidian basically sound like dealing with cRPG companion NPCs, endlessly interrupting the main quest with their interjections, all of which need to be responded to with the utmost obsequiousness in order to max out your relationship score with them. Is this a case of art imitating life, or life imitating art? (I wonder if the romance options there were similarly RPGish.)

 

[Edmund Spenser]

holy shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36989957-the-pen-is-mightier

The Pen is Mightier (The Pen is Mightier #1)​

by
J.A. Cipriano (Goodreads Author)
3.72 · Rating details · 634 Ratings · 54 Reviews
What if anything you wrote became true?

When an angry midget at a traveling carnival promises Roger something that could change his life, he never thought it would come in the form of a magic pen.

Now, anything the introverted college student writes becomes true, and with its power, he'll finally be able to take revenge on the bullies who have tormented him over the years.

There's just one problem. A group of assassins will do anything to get the pen, he accidentally made a entire squad of dancers into slaves, and his best friend somehow got an all-powerful mech.

Maybe that's three problems, but either way, Roger might just find out that the pen is mightier.

PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS A GRAPHIC STORY FEATURING HOT SEX, A DUDE WHO HAS A MAGIC PEN, AWESOME WEAPONS, VIOLENCE, NON-VIOLENCE, MORE SEX, A HAREM, CHEERLEADERS, STRIPPERS, NINJAS, ASSASSINS, MURDER, MORE SEX, GAMBLING, HELICOPTER EXPLOSIONS, A BITCHY BOSS, MECHS, A BULLY WHO GETS WHAT IS COMING TO HIM, AND AN MC WHO STRUGGLES WITH TRYING TO BE A GOOD PERSON WHILE HAVING ULTIMATE POWER. DO THE MATH, PLEASE. (less)​

​

 

[Edmund Spenser]

PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS A GRAPHIC STORY FEATURING HOT SEX, A DUDE WHO HAS A MAGIC PEN, AWESOME WEAPONS, VIOLENCE, NON-VIOLENCE, MORE SEX, A HAREM, CHEERLEADERS, STRIPPERS, NINJAS, ASSASSINS, MURDER, MORE SEX, GAMBLING, HELICOPTER EXPLOSIONS, A BITCHY BOSS, MECHS, A BULLY WHO GETS WHAT IS COMING TO HIM, AND AN MC WHO STRUGGLES WITH TRYING TO BE A GOOD PERSON WHILE HAVING ULTIMATE POWER. DO THE MATH, PLEASE.

 

[Jason Liang]

Another example of this to a lesser extent is how they used large chunks of IE code in Aurora according to A. Davis, to the point where he calls it "the same engine".

I agree that oldschool BioWare were better coders than Obsidian and so is Larian today, but overall it's slim pickings out there.

I'm curious why AA studios don't poach their programmers from Stanford and Cal like Blizzard does.

UPDATE: Nevermind, the answer is probably more nepotism

 

[Edmund Spenser]

Chris Avellone: Hey boss, how's it going? Weather's nice today

Feargus: Hey Chris, good to see you, I have an idea for a character

CA:

 

[Nutria]

I went through with reading them because I was genuinely trying to figure out what elements of these stories Feargus actually liked, because it confounded me – they were all terrible.

As much as I'm enjoying this thread, aren't you worried that this is beneath your dignity? I understand how frustrated you are with how everything turned out, but when you criticize him for his choice in books it just distracts from all of your serious complaints about him.

 

[Latro]

I went through with reading them because I was genuinely trying to figure out what elements of these stories Feargus actually liked, because it confounded me – they were all terrible.

As much as I'm enjoying this thread, aren't you worried that this is beneath your dignity? I understand how frustrated you are with how everything turned out, but when you criticize him for his choice in books it just distracts from all of your serious complaints about him.

I was thinking this was a low-blow (on our part) - but when you consider this guy has been threatening people for years, it becomes a comeuppance. MCA himself also didn't name the books, we did.

 

[Mr. Hiver]

No apologies needed - but thank you. Certainly, I made owner failures as well, so I'm not blameless in how those products turned out. There wasn't much I could do sometimes, however, and I certainly didn't have any authority to enact change (I could suggest things, but not make things happen unless I took on a specific role on a project). The DLCs were probably the only thing I had freedom at at Obsidian, and they were hit or miss.

Oh, not to worry, i have no illusions about the business and harsh necessities of it all. Or about how any of us make mistakes and fail to achieve some high standards. But there is a range of acceptable mistakes and behaviors, and then there are those that go beyond that.

I unfortunately never got to try out your DLCs for New Vegas since i couldnt get past that type of presentation, style of gameplay and mechanics, all inherited from bethesda. I got about half way through the main game two or three times but just couldnt go on. Despite relatively many good parts. I only managed that much because it was created by you all.

To be fair, though, Feargus didn’t interfere with the stories and RPG vision all the time (and Parker mostly brought his touch to UI and game systems, which only usually hurt me resource-wise). Darren and Jones didn't care. You also had to pull teeth from all of them to actually play the games the studio was making.

Sure but, the games being such interconnected systems, with publishers and monetary concerns and laying off of quality personnel on top of everything else, all of that behavior you described so far affects all the other parts. house of cards and all that.

Ive seen the similar rot in Wasteland 2, but ive said plenty about that so no need to go into it now.
And the only good thing about Numenera was that i managed to get a refund five days before it went out.

On the other hand all of those are valuable lessons for everyone in the business or thinking about it.
I cant remember another case of a high level designer laying it down like this... and its a sight to behold.

I wish we could talk more, but im under some constraints here. I already have one post awaiting "moderation" because i mentioned two very important members here, and i doubt it will be posted in this censorship free high brow paradise, probably this one wont make it either... - wait, no, they fell for it! :D
Maybe ill catch up with you on some reboot if you come again and if i find the time, I need to properly relay how awesome were all those Monty Python encounters, despite what some old crusty accountant thinks about it.

In the meantime... stay well and do what you do best.
good luck.


edit:

also, goodreads... holy mother of all comeuppances

 

[Grauken]

Well, its public information, and the GoodReads list speaks for itself (showing a remarkable lack of taste)

 

[Cael]

I went through with reading them because I was genuinely trying to figure out what elements of these stories Feargus actually liked, because it confounded me – they were all terrible.

As much as I'm enjoying this thread, aren't you worried that this is beneath your dignity? I understand how frustrated you are with how everything turned out, but when you criticize him for his choice in books it just distracts from all of your serious complaints about him.

It gives insight into the guy's mode of thinking. I have seen people like that before. Easily distracted by the latest thing they read and wanting to add whatever it is to their latest creative endeavour. It makes things... chaotic is probably the most polite term I can use.

EDIT: NOTE: It is not his choice of reading material that is the problem. It is him waxing lyrical about the latest thing he read and pushing it that is the problem.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

IHaveHugeNick is only looking after his job at Obsidian, and raising a fair point that running a business that's making a game is hard, given Chris Avellone's never really been in that position himself (given what he's saying about Obsidian, that can't count). Can't fault a guy for that.

If DU is right and IHaveHugeNick works at Obsidian, he can ask about any of the claims himself - I didn't realize I was speaking to an actual Obsidianite, or I wouldn't have made the shill comment. (The intent behind my response remains, though, but now I understand why you were responding like you did.)

If running a game business is hard is Nick's point, sure, but that doesn't mean you make it worse for yourself by repeating mistakes and even doing worse and worse things over time. What's problematic about this is that once you "get away" with a bad practice, unfortunately, this becomes a confirmation that you can get away with it again - so they start to add up because no one's ever held accountable and it can become a comfortable, default way of handling situations.

If Nick does work at Obsidian, though, this is an opportunity to easily confirm or clarify anything here - you can find Feargus's wife on a employee roster and payscale sheet, for example. You can also ask Anthony about our conversation that led to me tell the owners about my situation, since I didn't want to tell them before. You can also ask Feargus if Obsidian paid anything to me on departure, or if they'd made 401K and accounting errors I had to fix for them on my departure when HR screwed all these things up - these are easy things to check, and I'd love to hear what shakes out.

You can also ask each of the owners, in turn, starting with Jones if they were threatened with "sounds like you don't want to be an owner anymore." I'm sure you'd start getting some confirmations of the truth, even if you still support Obsidian, but I would ask them the "why" of all these things vs. ignoring it.

On the employee payback situation, you can absolutely ask those specific employees if they were repaid once we recovered or if it was a strangely long time before sets of payments trickled in. And Darren Monahan is the owner who eventually turned around and supported me to get it done because one of the designers asked him (and this was good, because it made Darren accountable for an answer) what was going on with the paychecks they'd sacrificed. Some of those employees who sacrificed don't work at Obsidian anymore, but a few still do.

It's not hard to do, and at least some of the people there would be willing to tell you.

Stop derailing our discussion about the links between forum moderation and communism with this crap about Obsidian or I may have to ban you.

 

[Blaine]

One unspoken time-consuming part of the story process, however, was that we’d get reading recommendations from Feargus – I won’t name the books

Give us a hint.

If you really want to know, Feargus' goodreads reviews should be a good starting point.

Holy shit, surely this can't be real.

 

[Edmund Spenser]

Infinitron can at last rest, knowing that finally the Codex has done something beautiful and immortal.

 

[Kleptocratic debt serf]

This damn thread has been so engaging/consuming I can't even read through drudgereport without having my brain run a little bit squirrely...

Ex: Schneiderman Feargus called me his ‘brown developer slave,’ would slap me until I called him ‘Master Literary Genius’

-EDIT-

I tried my hand at paint but it was Prosper level shit, I'll just leave my shiposting attempt as it stands.

 

[Edmund Spenser]

A youtube documentary about this thread:

 

[Cael]

Infinitron can at last rest, knowing that finally the Codex has done something beautiful and immortal.

Don't be silly. He still has to down rate all the guys moaning about his latest shill-work: the HBS game. He is a busy man over there, with the volume of denigrations and genuine laugh out louds about the (lack of) quality of the writing.

No, don't send poor Chris over there. He'd be in the foetal position in the corner having a brain seizure at the utter garbage quality writing that is called a "dialogue" in games these days.

 

[Jason Liang]

Why hasn't someone updated wikipedia's Chris Avellone and Feargus Urquhart entries yet.

 

[Flou]

Tim Cain - Game Director, Leonard Boyarsky - Lead Designer. Those are their titles, at least - it wouldn't surprise me if in practice they function as Co-Directors.

There's probably a separate art director (though I'm sure Leonard supervises him)

They are co-game directors. Can't remember the source for sure, but most likely the initial Private Division as publishers article.

Robert Nesler is working on the game, so he is more than likely the Art Director on the game.

 

[Quillon]

Lastly, I didn't think Feargus did a very good job as the voice on the Fig board during the crowdsourcing campaign - he did a lot of half-answers, poorly-worded answers, and "I'll chat with the team," "I'll get back to you" and then didn't really get back to people as far as I could tell. Also, some general confusion "with" some of the posts:

View attachment 8866

I think either Adam or Josh end up being better spokespeople to the facts of the campaign - Ferg just seemed one step away from real information, so it felt fuzzy.

Not to protect Feargus or something but he was there answering Qs all the time even if not informed well, compared to any other crowdfunding game I followed, Deadfire's crowdfunding team was too responsive and there all the time, which lasted till they crossed the bridge tho, then they abandoned it, used it as an afterthought as you said.

Adam was there rarely, Josh used his usual ways(twitter,tumblele,SA) mostly.

Also you never showed how closely you followed Deadfire, even reading through fig comments and shit :D

 

[Azarkon]

I went through with reading them because I was genuinely trying to figure out what elements of these stories Feargus actually liked, because it confounded me – they were all terrible.

As much as I'm enjoying this thread, aren't you worried that this is beneath your dignity? I understand how frustrated you are with how everything turned out, but when you criticize him for his choice in books it just distracts from all of your serious complaints about him.

YOU KNOW WHAT, FEARGUS?

YOUR MANAGEMENT STYLE SUCKS!

YOU HAVE NO ETHICS!

YOU LIE WITH A STRAIGHT FACE!

YOU FORGET EVERYTHING!

YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND ALL THE TIME!

YOU HIRE YOUR WIFE! SHE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT A CRPG IS!

YOU TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE'S MISFORTUNES!

YOU THREATEN YOUR PARTNERS!

YOU TRY TO CHEAT YOUR EMPLOYEES OUT OF THEIR MONEY!

YOU BETRAYED ME!

...Oh, and your taste in books sucks, too.