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Codex Interview RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

Discussion in 'News & Content Feedback' started by Infinitron, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. Irata Learned

    Irata
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    I'm stunned at what happened if he was an actual partner. I just can't believe that "owner" isn't being used as a synonym for founder. Was he liable for the company's debts? Even in a limited capacity? If so and he had no equity then he should sue his lawyer. I'm not trying to be a dick, but someone screwed him over big time, and knew they were screwing him, if he was an actual co-owner. I'm not even sure it would be legal.
     
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  2. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Owner/founder are just laymen words people use. What really matters is how a partnership or LLC or etc agreement is structured. You can call a group a people "founders" for example, but likely only the portion who put in capital to form the business are Majority Partners.

    https://business-law.freeadvice.com/business-law/corporations/expel-minor-partner-from-business.htm


     
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  3. Azarkon Arcane

    Azarkon
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    Doing this to dilute the value of his shares would open Obsidian up to law suits, as they'd have to prove there was no conflict of interest when it was done, and it'd also require them to buy the new shares as otherwise their own share of the company is also reduced. The best way to remove a minority share holder from a company is to simply have a share holder agreement, signed at the company's creation, that allows them to buy out his shares at a previously agreed upon price. I don't know whether that applies in this case. Failing the existence of such an agreement, they could try to merge with a new company to do a freeze out. But I don't think that happened.
     
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  4. skacky Prestigious Gentleman 3D Realms Developer

    skacky
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    Holy crap Chris Avellone, that latest post makes my blood boil. You handled that like a champ.
     
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  5. Puteo Learned

    Puteo
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    Do you think he just accidentally left these details out? That the greatest videogame writer of all time just so happens to slip in a new bombshell bigger than the last every time it seems like the action is over and the drama is dying down?

    Oh no, this is 100% planned. Maybe not the timing of it, but he's probably got his plot beats all planned out for maximum impact. I imagine we're going to get another boss fight soon.

    Just sit back and enjoy Mr. Avellone's wild ride


    :drink:
     
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  6. Mebrilia Arbiter

    Mebrilia
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    Hey Chris "Endure in enduring grow strong"
     
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  7. Ninjerk Arcane

    Ninjerk
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    I'm pretty sure if he invited "someone" from OBS upper management he'd start by playing them Huey Lewis and the news.
     
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  8. Hamster Arcane Patron

    Hamster
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    Codex 2012 Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014
    Actually they are Chris Avellone's buddies in the Russian Mob now.

    https://www.pcgamer.com/obsidian-is-no-longer-working-on-armored-warfare/

     
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  9. Irata Learned

    Irata
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    Right, but if he's being labeled a partner then he can be individually sued over the companies debts. He'd then have to sue the other members on his own. Why would he allow that and get no benefits?
     
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  10. abnaxus Arcane Patron

    abnaxus
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    Crooked Feargus.
     
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  11. Maculo Prophet

    Maculo
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    A shareholder agreement is possible, but Avellone never mentioned shares or forced buybacks of stock. Furthermore, I would be curious how a buyback would leave him with no compensation for it.

    He made it sound like a revocable right at the discretion of a stakeholder.


    As far as I know Obsidian (i.e., Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.) is a corporation and not a partnership entity.
     
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  12. Azarkon Arcane

    Azarkon
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    The question is how many shares he had in the company; and what were done to those. Profit sharing is legally required for all share holders, so not paying him any fraction from the company's profits would generally be illegal, but it'd depend on the share holder agreement. Now, in case owner is just being used as a title, and he didn't actually have ANY shares, then technically ... Feargus could do whatever he wanted with the company and Chris would have zero say.
     
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  13. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    The agreement could specify the share price, which might be peanuts due to it being an outdated price or just because fuck you.
     
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  14. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    The more I read Chris' posts the more I wonder why "Obsidian Upper Management" didn't just hire a hitman - guess they really enjoy twisting the knife. And the money.
     
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  15. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    As I said earlier:

    Or some variation of that.
     
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  16. aratuk Arbiter

    aratuk
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    Yes, but “owner” would denote an equity stake, whether majority or minority, while “founder” wouldn’t necessarily mean anything. Avellone has been using the word “owner”.

    Is it possible that the mechanism for valuation could determine that the price is zero (or less than zero), if it operates on a valuation of assets offset by debts?
     
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  17. Maculo Prophet

    Maculo
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    True, but he did not mention shares, buyback, or compensation, which makes me think it was more an employee agreement that provided for a revocable right to profits/losses instead of shares.
     
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  18. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    No it does not, technically. There are such things as salaried partners in accounting firms for example. They have an inflated salary and may share limited in the profits, but have no equity or voting rights.
     
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  19. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    What are you talking about?
     
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  20. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
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    You can do all kinds of fuckery with this type of contract. If the private share issuing power lies with the majority of owners, they can issue new shares to themselves such that Chris's (or whoever the suppressive person is) total number of shares isn't worth squat. You're taking a paper value, of which Chris's is worth something, and increasing the majority's number of shares by, say, 3 orders of magnitude. The minority partner will have then lost 3 orders of magnitude of worth. it's 3/10 vs 3/10000.
     
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  21. Maculo Prophet

    Maculo
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    For a corporation the "share" would be stock. There can multiple restrictions on stocks, such as buyback value. Furthermore there can be different classes of stock. For example, Class A stock could receive 10 votes per share, whereas Class B only receives 1 vote per share.
     
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  22. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Right. Some states do have laws for LLCs, for example, that prevent this. But fuck if I know what OE is. LLC? LLP? :itisamystery:

     
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  23. Azarkon Arcane

    Azarkon
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    When you issue new shares in a corporation, you can't just issue them to yourself. You have to pay money for them based on their value. Otherwise nobody would ever accept minority share in a company because it'd be worthless.
     
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  24. SpurdoSparde Barely Literate

    SpurdoSparde
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    It would be easier getting MCA's lawyer to start posting in this thread than guessing the circumstances of this de-ownering, although probably less fun.
     
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  25. aratuk Arbiter

    aratuk
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    “Partner” is yet another, different word, that no one has used here…

    But whatever.

    :M
     
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