Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Interview RPG Codex Interview: Might & Magic X - Legacy

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,616
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
That 25 hours number seems to be a random figure somebody pulled out of his ass.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,963
Also, by standards of AAA games, 25 hours is an epic trudge that no modern gamer could ever survive. :obviously:

Edit: Just so we all remember, the 20-25 hours figure was one that Limbic gave, so if it was pulled out of their ass (which they specifically admitted when they said estimating is always a foolhardy endeavour), well, it's a fairly official ass-pulling.
 

commie

The Last Marxist
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
1,865,260
Location
Where one can weep in peace
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Well, it IS Ubisoft making a AAA game afterall... is such an odd thign that making a smaller game, less financially dangerous game as "market test" first is understandable...

The thing is that Ubishit has made all its franchises smaller and simpler no matter how successful so 25 hours is probably the maximum we're ever going to get. Even if successful, the small cost and reusable assets will no doubt give them the idea to churn these out in such 'bite sized' chunks all the time rather than concentrate on one epic game.


That 25 hours number seems to be a random figure somebody pulled out of his ass.

Trying again to prove that black is white eh? Just like the publishers aren't distributors defense elsewhere. Better give up the serious talking and stick to cutpasta news bro....

:smug:
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,616
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It doesn't have anything to do with this game specifically. I actually think pretty much ALL pre-release gameplay time estimates are bullshit made up numbers. For RPGs, at least.
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
Patron
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
15,048
Location
In quarantine
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Edit: Just so we all remember, the 20-25 hours figure was one that Limbic gave, so if it was pulled out of their ass (which they specifically admitted when they said estimating is always a foolhardy endeavour), well, it's a fairly official ass-pulling.

Yeah, but it's one thing if it takes the developers themselves to get through the game in 25 hours (which is what the estimate could've been based on) or just to go through the main quest, and another thing if the world really is as big as in Clouds and if you take a new, yet inexperienced player.

So basically, those "25 hours" could mean anything.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,963
Yep, agreed. It's all a wash at this point. We can only speculate aimlessly while we wait for this miracle virgin-birth of a turn-based blobber. Though I've long since learned that I am way more hardcore than most developers, so if it takes them 25...

No doubt Chris Avellone would tell us that a full playthrough of Arcanum clocks in at around 2500 hours. (The first 100 being the Crash Site.)
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
WoX which is Clouds + Darkside put together is often quoted as 200 hours. Certainly it's hard to guess sight unseen, but it seems rather weird for them to say that it's both larger than Clouds and only 20 hours long.
I don't know where that figure comes from, because I think even the slowest player in the world could finish WoX in 100 hours or less, and even that is pretty generous. 50-75 might be more accurate if you're not screwing around a lot. The entire overland map having no walls whatsoever makes it really quick to get around.
 

Gozma

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
2,951
Still have some doubts. I don't really mind removing level-up training too terribly much, but saying the basis for it is that it will remove backtracking in a game where backtracking to a town has generally taken about five seconds (outside of special areas you aren't supposed to be able to easily escape, anyway) makes me wonder how much they've slowed down map movement with the map transition animations and maybe limited travel stuff like beacon.
 

MicoSelva

backlog digger
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
7,521
Location
The Oldest House
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Good interview, full of :incline: . I Hope this approach works for them and we see more attempts to cater to the niche PC RPG crowd in the future.

One can dream, right?

Actually, what are other classic RPG franchises that are held hostage by major publishers and slowly dying? And I don't mean those, which have been already drawn into the dark side (Fallout) or were exiled to foreign countries (Wizardry).
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,432
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
UBISoft owns all of SSI. But I don't know about the ownership of all the SSI IP.

I don't think any of the other AAA Publishers will go down this road (for making a cRPG) however (Activision or EA).
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
10,881
Divinity: Original Sin
First the :rpgcodex:, some things I'm sceptical about that could turn out well:
- On accessibility: he makes a great distinction between accessibility and complexity. And yes, M&M was always accessible and easy to use, and it was an important element in making it fun. I just hope they do stick to this distinction in the shipped product and make sure the difficulty and complexity doesn't at some point get sacrificed for the sake of accessibility (the mistake that many, many new games make)
- Level trainers: they were such a staple of the series I'm annoyed to see them go. Not a deal-breaker, and they don't define M&M for me, but they were an ever-present element.
- Length. 25h seems short... but not that short. People bandy about 200h for WOX but really as others pointed out it was a 50-75h affair at most. Clouds, when it came out as stand-alone, was ~30h at most, not much longer than Legacy seems to be. While I don't like Clouds as much as other games, another M&M of the same length is fine by me.
- No SF elements. Yes it's a shame. But it's Ashan, and we knew we were stuck with it 7 years ago. As long as the world is interesting to explore this isn't a big deal.

Now the really :x stuff, which in fact is a pretty small list....
- Winks to the old universe: please don't. Nothing made me rage in HOMM5 more than the gratuitous and out of place references that were supposed to make me feel validated as an old-M&M fan. This isn't an old-M&M, this isn't the old world, and you are not NWC. If you went to the trouble of making a brand new world and discarding the old one then MAKE it a brand new world. Don't try to do things halfway, and most importantly don't use the least significant elements of the old NWC world like names to make a connection to please fans - all it does is remind us that this is in fact NOT the old world and it's STILL missing the elements that we LIKED about the old world. If you're going Ashan, go full Ashan, and if you can make the exploration part work (see below) then none of us will CARE that this is Ashan (well, not care in a bad way at least) - because it'll still be fun to explore and it'll still be a true M&M.
- Uplay. WHY UBISOFT WHY? I won't go on about this, since if Ubisoft wants it there's nothing Limbic can do about it. I would, however, like to point out the rather impressive sales of Grimrock - a game that has no DRM whatsoever. Incidentally I bought the GOG version. You know why I specifically picked that one instead of any other? that's right, no DRM. I'll still buy MMX because are you kidding? a new M&M game and you want me to NOT get it? But I do wish Ubisoft would actually think about the audience they're targeting, about how likely they are to pirate a game they've been wishing to see for some long, about the fact those who pirate it WILL pirate it Uplay or no Uplay, and about how many might be more willing to get it if it IS DRM-free. Just a thought.
(ok so I did end up going on about it)

Of course I left the:love: for last.
- "To us, Might & Magic RPGs are about a party of adventurers exploring a large world in first-person view, meeting a variety of characters, visiting cities, and of course exploring dungeons and fighting monsters in turn-based combat. The specifics may vary from one game to the next, but these basic ingredients were always there" This is almost enough to dissolve my natural scepticism entirely. THIS IS MIGHT AND MAGIC. Yes the SF/fantasy mix made the setting unique, yes JVC's particular brand of (sometimes awful) humour was part of the charm, but what really made M&M what it is was the exploration. That Limbic seem to understand this and at least say they want to focus on these elments can't help but make me optimistic.
- The Eras: WOX-style exploration with MM7 skill system is perfect. I'm glad they picked MM7 in particular, as this means having the limitations on which classes can get the highest skill tier (in MM6 everyone could Master whatever skills they could learn), and that made the MM7 skill system much superior to MM6. Keeping in the class trainers with the same frequency too (many Expert trainers, one GM trainer that is hard to reach) exactly mirrors MM7-8 too, and I like this. Very very much.
- No level scaling. Of course everyone knows Might and Magic did have level-scaling, but that was 15 years ago and in the worst entry in the series, so glad to see it go :trollface: On a more serious note I assume this means loot is also not scaled - another essential element. A lot of it was randomized in both old and new era, but the level of the items did depend on what monster dropped them or where the chest was. The best combination of hand-placed and random loot.
- "If you want to go to that mountain over there despite the fact it’s notoriously full of angry Cyclopes, nothing will stop you." Again THIS IS MIGHT AND MAGIC. Limbic, can you see this? PLEASE NEVER EVER REMOVE OR TAME THIS ELEMENT OF FREEDOM. EVER. This is why MM6 is one of my favourite games ever - because I made it to Sweetwater as a low-level party and nothing stopped me from getting there - and then I got my ass kicked VERY BADLY. And I LOVED IT.

So em yeah, commie will hate me, but it is now official: I am now fully excited about this. I want to see it made, I want the guys currently working on it to be the ones working on it, I think they understand what makes Might and Magic, and I WANT TO PLAY THE DAMN THING ALREADY!
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,310
Location
Terra da Garoa
- Winks to the old universe: please don't. Nothing made me rage in HOMM5 more than the gratuitous and out of place references that were supposed to make me feel validated as an old-M&M fan. This isn't an old-M&M, this isn't the old world, and you are not NWC. If you went to the trouble of making a brand new world and discarding the old one then MAKE it a brand new world. Don't try to do things halfway, and most importantly don't use the least significant elements of the old NWC world like names to make a connection to please fans - all it does is remind us that this is in fact NOT the old world and it's STILL missing the elements that we LIKED about the old world. If you're going Ashan, go full Ashan, and if you can make the exploration part work (see below) then none of us will CARE that this is Ashan (well, not care in a bad way at least) - because it'll still be fun to explore and it'll still be a true M&M.
This could be perfectly said about Blizzard's Titan as well... making a whole new world but bringing back some popular name, places & peoples from more stabilished worlds shows nothing but complete lack of faith in the new world you made, as if you coulnd't come up with anything better than the old stuff.
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,432
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
MightMagicGame ‏@MightMagicGame3m
Do you remember what tutorials were like in the past? #mightandmagicX pic.twitter.com/ieSG2CupS8

BHGnGkJCYAERzjk.png:large
 
Self-Ejected

theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
Considering they only work at it for 7 months they are very fast if the game should be released in September (overall ~1 year then). I mean other games take at least 2+ years... Of course they can recycle all the Heroes6 models/animations, saving much time - but it's still very fast.

I wonder how the voice acting will be. I really liked all the different kinds of voices provided in Wizardry8. They gave your party members a certain character and the comments were often grotesque or amusing.
 

taxalot

I'm a spicy fellow.
Patron
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
10,098
Location
Your wallet.
Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Julien Pirou, one of the guys in the team is a familar name. And indeed, he is well known in the french retrogaming community for doing some TV shows about old games, debunking some myths about that. His show is surprisingly called "Retro & Magic". That's at least one guy you can trust. Unfortunately, he seems to do the writing where he should be doing the gameplay.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
- Uplay. WHY UBISOFT WHY? I won't go on about this, since if Ubisoft wants it there's nothing Limbic can do about it. I would, however, like to point out the rather impressive sales of Grimrock - a game that has no DRM whatsoever. Incidentally I bought the GOG version. You know why I specifically picked that one instead of any other? that's right, no DRM. I'll still buy MMX because are you kidding? a new M&M game and you want me to NOT get it? But I do wish Ubisoft would actually think about the audience they're targeting, about how likely they are to pirate a game they've been wishing to see for some long, about the fact those who pirate it WILL pirate it Uplay or no Uplay, and about how many might be more willing to get it if it IS DRM-free. Just a thought.
(ok so I did end up going on about it)

At least Uplay has a normal installer and does the DRM/client thing afterward, in my experience, which means a simple exe swap should make it DRM free.
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
It feels like Ubisoft gave Limbic almost full creative control as long as they adhere to the Ashan universe etc. It's pretty obvious they do most of their own social media stuff and interviews, too. That "tutorial" photo is weird, since apparently MMX is to have a tutorial of some sort, which none of the other games did.

I really have a lot of faith in this game now, reading that at the very least, these people respect M&M and aren't trying to make a retarded Skyrim or action game.

The very short development time is suspect, as is the lack of JVC, but if this is anything like Clouds I'm happy. :rpgcodex:
 

Deacdo

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
585
"One thing we didn’t keep from the older games is the need to "validate" your level-up by spending gold in a training center."

And there goes arguably my favourite "little" feature from M&M6. I guess it's back to having hordes of useless gold :(
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
Yeah, I loved the training center thing too, but I think it's just more nostalgic than anything else.

It wasn't much of a gold sink, especially in the games where banks accrued interest on gold it was inevitable to end up like Donald Trump at some point anyway.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom