Community RPG Codex People's Awards: Best RPGs

[Zeriel]

Torment is in there, but... Final Fantasy 6, number 2? Really? REALLY?!

It was considered "alright" but average when it came out. Chrono Trigger does deserve to be up there somewhere, but...

The ironic thing is that Torment is a better JRPG than just about every JRPG they are ranking higher than it.

Not a single MMO deserves to be on any "best RPGs" list. They can be entertaining games, but they aren't RPGs.

 

[Athelas]

It's NeoGAF, what did you guys expect?

Still, LOL @ Skyrim on #4 and Kotor 1 on #7.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Kotor 1 on #7.

I'm sure there's a joke in there, if only someone could find it...

 

[Daedalos]

Of the games I have actually tried... That list would be somewhat close to what I would vote for!

Would upvote KOTOR 1, Might and Magic genres, Diablo 1 + 2 (yea) and some others.

 

[St. Toxic]

How about a plain and simple go fuck yourself?

Now you're getting the hang of it. Shame it took you 3 posts to get there.

 

[Telengard]

(Responding to the debate on the previous page) Any of these weighted points system will nudge things around, but it won't really change things for the obscure, the indie, and the old. The number of voters who don't know such games will always be too much of an issue. And the number of games in old series, such as the Gold Box, will always split the vote on them.

You can force the issue by voting by decade. However, this does cause issues by weighting a bad decade equally as highly as a good decade, so a no.1 from the bad decade will be listed equally as highly as the no.1 from the good decade. And it also causes issues with the transitional years. As in, a 1999 game will have a lot more in common with a 2001 game than a 1991 game, but it will never be compared to that 2001 game in a strict by-decade system.

The list on the table is just about as good as it gets for simple compiling - though the question asked should have been "What 20 RPGs do you rate as being the best RPGs of all time" not "List 20 RPGs that you like", since sometimes some people like a game because it does one thing they like really well, but they don't actually think that game is one of the best RPGs of all time.

However, if you want to favor the obscure and the indie and the old more, but do so without doing something biased (and thus invalidating your list), then you've all but got to go the boring and dull route of compiling a list of codexian review scores. As in, take that list of RPGs floating around and have everyone rate the ones they actually played on the 4-star system (poor, fair, good, excellent). Then compile the average score that each game receives, and rank the games by their rating. That way each game is scored based on the consensus of how good it is by those who played it, instead of how popular it is. Unfortunately, getting enough people to actually fill out the score sheet on such a huge list would be like trying to herd cats.

 

[Grunker]

I shutter to ask this, but hasn't the last five pages of discussion primarily centered around how we can hide the fact that the Codex likes the IE-games more than the GoldBox games?

 

[felipepepe]

I'm shutter to ask this, but hasn't the last five pages off discussion primarily centered around how we hide the fact that the Codex likes the IE-games more than the GoldBox games?

Not really... as I said, our love of IE, Fallout and Troika is quite unique and something that define us.

 

[Zeriel]

There used to be a pretty heavy anti-Infinity Engine bias in the earliest days of the Codex, and the core from that time were basically Troika fans who came over from/during the Arcanum development cycle. It's way diluted these days, of course, with it seems morepeople liking IE than not.

 

[Grunker]

There used to be a pretty heavy anti-Infinity Engine bias in the earliest days of the Codex, and the core from that time were basically Troika fans who came over from/during the Arcanum development cycle. It's way diluted these days, of course, with it seems morepeople liking IE than not.

I joined around the time it wasn't "ok" to defend the IE-games, and for an outsider at the time, it seemed more like the IE-fans started being vocal in spite of people yelling "decline!", more than that a ton of IE-fans suddenly joined. Some of the people who like the IE-games the most here are old-time modders and oldfags.

The true divergence in the Codex isn't between GoldBox/IE-games but between the people who are vocal about newer games being good (like Dragon Age) and those who detest them.

 

[tuluse]

I'm shutter to ask this, but hasn't the last five pages off discussion primarily centered around how we hide the fact that the Codex likes the IE-games more than the GoldBox games?

I think the list is to serve two functions.

1) Get a general temperature reading on what are considered the best RPGs around here.

2) Get some more obscure games mentioned for anyone looking for some games to play.

1 was generally failed by making all votes equal. Icewind Dale is not one of the ten best RPGs ever made, it is a game a lot of people played and felt it deserved a mention in the top 25. Allowing people to weight their votes should fix this.

2 was partially accomplished, but no one looked at the full list.

 

[Grunker]

I'm shutter to ask this, but hasn't the last five pages off discussion primarily centered around how we hide the fact that the Codex likes the IE-games more than the GoldBox games?

I think the list is to serve two functions.

1) Get a general temperature reading on what are considered the best RPGs around here.

2) Get some more obscure games mentioned for anyone looking for some games to play.

1 was generally failed by making all votes equal. Icewind Dale is not one of the ten best RPGs ever made, it is a game a lot of people played and felt it deserved a mention in the top 25. Allowing people to weight their votes should fix this.

2 was partially accomplished, but no one looked at the full list.

Fair - but like all things on the 'dex, it is a discussion rooted in ideal and not in reality. In reality, all one needs to do to change the format is get ahold of Jaesun and ask if you can do the counting. When I did the Top 10 Strategy Games, it took a fart-load of time counting the votes, and that's the easy way (no weight, just paste votes in Excel and have it count). If you want to introduce weighted votes, it will take more time, and so volunteers are needed.

The issue is not finding the right model, just someone that steps up and says "I'll do it."

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I think the list is to serve two functions.

1) Get a general temperature reading on what are considered the best RPGs around here.

2) Get some more obscure games mentioned for anyone looking for some games to play.

1 was generally failed by making all votes equal. Icewind Dale is not one of the ten best RPGs ever made, it is a game a lot of people played and felt it deserved a mention in the top 25. Allowing people to weight their votes should fix this.

2 was partially accomplished, but no one looked at the full list.

If a lot of people played ID and most of those thought it deserved a place in the Top 25 list, doesn't that mean it's considered one of the best RPGs around here?

 

[SuicideBunny]

Not a single MMO deserves to be on any "best RPGs" list. They can be entertaining games, but they aren't RPGs.

ultima online, a tale in the desert.. pretty sure there might be more.

 

[tuluse]

If a lot of people played ID and most of those thought it deserved a place in the Top 25 list, doesn't that mean it's considered one of the best RPGs around here?

25 is a fuckhuge amount, so no

 

[Grunker]

I think the list is to serve two functions.

1) Get a general temperature reading on what are considered the best RPGs around here.

2) Get some more obscure games mentioned for anyone looking for some games to play.

1 was generally failed by making all votes equal. Icewind Dale is not one of the ten best RPGs ever made, it is a game a lot of people played and felt it deserved a mention in the top 25. Allowing people to weight their votes should fix this.

2 was partially accomplished, but no one looked at the full list.

If a lot of people played ID and most thought it deserved a place in the Top 25 list, doesn't that mean it's considered one of the best RPGs around here?

What Tuluse is saying is that if a million people agree that Icewind Dale is nr. 20 on their list, but they disagree on everything else, Icewind Dale will end up no. 1, when no one would claim it was their favourite game.

But again, this isn't important. If you people are serious about a better list, do that list.

 

[felipepepe]

Fair - but like all things on the 'dex, it is a discussion rooted in ideal and not in reality. In reality, all one needs to do to change the format is get ahold of Jaesun and ask if you can do the counting. When I did the Top 10 Strategy Games, it took a fart-load of time counting the votes, and that's the easy way (no weight, just paste votes in Excel and have it count). If you want to introduce weighted votes, it will take more time, and so volunteers are needed.

The issue is not finding the right model, just someone that steps up and says "I'll do it."

Is not really that hard. I did the Top DS RPGs a month ago, with weighted votes, and was very simple... just open the excel and throw the numbers in. If the little kids at codexia can follow the format rules, you can even do it automatially, importing the pages to excel.

I volunteer to do it, I just wanna get set on the proper system before that. Weigthed by F1 standards is quick and ready, I was just curious on doing the point-assigment ystem or any variant...

 

[Athelas]

This could be solved by an interconnected poll, where the first question is which games you played and the second question is which of those were your favorites.

 

[Lady_Error]

I would do it too, it's not that hard.

My preference is for a 20 points system where you can give each game up to 5 points. Though the F1 system sounds good too, especially since people would not have to count - just put the games in the right order.

 

[felipepepe]

My preference is for a 20 points system where you can give each game up to 5 points.

That's my choice as well. From that we can later derive other lists, like the most popular games, ther best from each decade, and so forth...

PC only, cause we're the RPG Codex and stuffies, right?

 

[Duraframe300]

Torment is in there, but... Final Fantasy 6, number 2? Really? REALLY?!

It was considered "alright" but average when it came out. Chrono Trigger does deserve to be up there somewhere, but...

Now thats just plain wrong.

By who? By the masses sure as hell not and it garnered multiple awards as well on release. As far as FF goes VI always has been one of the most beloved.

 

[tuluse]

I would go with 25 points, since the original vote was 25 games. So a voter could put their original list in with 1 point for each if they wanted to. Either 20 or 25 isn't a big deal though. I'm excited to see what happens, and I'm willing to help with running the poll, if anyone wants help.

 

[felipepepe]

Ok, so we agree on 25 points, 5 cap per game, PC only, final destination? If the staff gives greenlight, I'll do it.

Jaesun , Grunker , Crooked Bee & Infinitron ?

 

[Grunker]

Don't think the staff has to be involved here. If Jaesun is OK with it, that's the go ahead. I would wait until 2015 though. Or at least the end of this year so the Kickstarters come out.

 

[felipepepe]

I want precisely to avoid the kickstarters. Is quite common for everyone to get lost in the hype and vote for recent good titles.

Besides, we can just do it again in 2015.