Editorial RPG Codex Report: Gamescom 2016 - Mount & Blade 2, Kingdom Come, SpellForce 3, South Park 2 and more

[Mazisky]

SPELLFORCE 3 is a game i was waiting a lot. I'm superworried about what Bubbles said, but i hope it was only cause he don't like the genre rather than the game itself.

There aren't fantasy rts out there, the most recent is Champions of Anteria that is nothing special

 

[Bubbles]

Well, Spellforce isn't really an RTS. Or an RPG.

Dev: We don't see ourselves as an RPG with RTS elements, or an RTS with RPG elements. It is really the most important pillar that you get this constant, unique, evolving experience. You can queue buildings without having all the resources gathered; the workers will come and take care of that, so you can continue exploring with your heroes. Maybe you have a dialogue. During that dialogue, you are attacked by an enemy faction. You cancel out that dialogue, you fight back the attackers, and then you just continue with the dialogue.

[the other presenter chimes in] You can actually close the dialogue window with spacebar, and you can still hear the dialogue going while you go to the other side of the map. Every design decision we make is to create a blend...

 

[Zanzoken]

The systems in M&B are mostly solid, just need some tuning here and there. The problem is that it's just all systems and not much in the way of actual content. So content is what the sequel needs to deliver, along with the requisite art and UI improvements that a true sequel merits.

Sandboxes are fun but much less so if all you have is sand. You need stuff to build with, play with, etc to really get the full experience.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

The systems in M&B are mostly solid, just need some tuning here and there. The problem is that it's just all systems and not much in the way of actual content. So content is what the sequel needs to deliver, along with the requisite art and UI improvements that a true sequel merits.

Sandboxes are fun but much less so if all you have is sand. You need stuff to build with, play with, etc to really get the full experience.

I understand your issues, and I also think optional quests line in Viking Conquest help solidify the world and companions, but frankly that can wait I just want to pillage peasants. I make the story in my head as I go.

 

[thesheeep]

Well, Spellforce isn't really an RTS. Or an RPG.

Dev: We don't see ourselves as an RPG with RTS elements, or an RTS with RPG elements. It is really the most important pillar that you get this constant, unique, evolving experience. You can queue... bla

It is an RPG / RTS hybrid. There is no doubt about it, this isn't even a subjective point. There is typical RTS gameplay and typical RPG gameplay. Clear as daylight, really.
Therefore, that statement by the dev never made sense to me, so I began thinking that maybe it was just worded weirdly?
Or maybe it is just marketing speech... but for what purpose?

Maybe he just wanted to say that neither element is more important to them and that for them, having a good flow between those two is the important thing.
Which is somewhat understandable. Warcraft 3, for example, really is just an RTS with very light tacked on RPG gameplay. The hero is just a somewhat stronger unit that levels up.
The only "real" RTS/RPG hyrids I know are Warlords Battlecry (where the hero has a far more important and dynamic role than in WC3, but it is still rather light on the RPG) and the other Spellforce games.

 

[nil]

That Spellforce interview must have been awkward as fuck.

 

[Mazisky]

I don't know why there are thousands of fantasy strategy games out there but they are all 4x or village builder.

The Rts games of the last 6 years are all space\sci fi, wtf

 

[hpstg]

I really hope Warhorse manage to optimize Kingdom Come to run well. That AI at this level of fidelity is demanding as fuck.

Isn't there a console port in works? That would make the game possible in a much lower tier of systems. Especially if they go the DX12/Vulkan way, it should be playable from anyone with a real quad core and a 7850/70 and above. The only issue would be ram, or a badly optimized port.

 

[Jrpgfan]

The systems in M&B are mostly solid, just need some tuning here and there. The problem is that it's just all systems and not much in the way of actual content. So content is what the sequel needs to deliver, along with the requisite art and UI improvements that a true sequel merits.

Sandboxes are fun but much less so if all you have is sand. You need stuff to build with, play with, etc to really get the full experience.

I agree. Some new systems they are introducing are interesting and a welcome addition, but the lack of content was really the biggest issue for me in the first game. The quests were very generic and became repetitive too fast. At some point there was really nothing else to do besides killing everyone and invading castles.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The systems in M&B are mostly solid, just need some tuning here and there. The problem is that it's just all systems and not much in the way of actual content. So content is what the sequel needs to deliver, along with the requisite art and UI improvements that a true sequel merits.

Sandboxes are fun but much less so if all you have is sand. You need stuff to build with, play with, etc to really get the full experience.

In a proper game of this type, the systems would be the content. Because games like M&B are open and dynamic, you can't really create static content for them. Imagine M&B having some kind of in-depth campaign/story created by the developers, but then the world would develop in an entirely different way, and the story/campaign wouldn't make any sense. So this doesn't really work. The way to do it is to have the systems generate the content, but that requires a deeper level of procedural generation.

M&B has very shallow generation, where it procedurally generates some quests/events (e.g. this guy was kidnapped from this town, go save him). But because it's so shallow, you will see all of these events after a few hours and then they just keep repeating, boring you to death. The right approach is something closer to Dwarf Fortress, with way deeper generation algorithms, with the world generating complex interactions between various towns/factions/characters and you being able to participate in those in some way.

Pretty happy with the KCD write-up. Can there actually be a single hyped up game for us that works out? Surely it's not too much to ask after having to sit through the decade of Bethesda/Bioware domination.

 

[Konjad]

I'm guessing they have much larger budget and team for M&B2 so it would be cool if they made fights more realistic, including animations. Obvious stuff like this:

 

[Bubbles]

I really hope Warhorse manage to optimize Kingdom Come to run well. That AI at this level of fidelity is demanding as fuck.

Isn't there a console port in works? That would make the game possible in a much lower tier of systems. Especially if they go the DX12/Vulkan way, it should be playable from anyone with a real quad core and a 7850/70 and above. The only issue would be ram, or a badly optimized port.

Vavra talks about it a bit here:

How challenging has it been for you guys to bring the game to console?
The alphas and beta are for PC only, but we are already testing the console versions internally. So far it runs pretty well but we already know that we’ll have to adjust the game to make it run smoothly on consoles.

Have the controls needed to be rejigged for controllers at all?
No, actually we are programming the game with an Xbox on each office table. And to be honest, combat works perfectly with a controller.

What are the major differences between the PC and console versions in terms of visual quality? Have you had to pull anything back at all?
We are not in the state to give precise information about that. But we have a huge amount of details, millions of vegetation entities, hundreds of NPCs and a huge simulated world in the background. We have a lot of work [to do] fitting everything into the console versions.

http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331791735805/kingdom-come-deliverance-dan-vavra-interview

And of course he also did a Codex interview three years ago:

What are your thoughts on Skyrim?

Well, as they say: In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. For me, Skyrim (or the Elder Scrolls series as a whole) is the one-eyed man. So far, it is the only western open world RPG worth mentioning. For that reason, I was more grateful for it than anyone else, but I have lots of issues with the game. It's an American vision of a medieval fantasy world and as such, it's more like Disneyland with bizarre architecture, medieval knights using katanas, half-naked female warriors, illogical quests and story that is often morally very uncomfortable for me (for instance offering no other than evil choices in quests). The RPG I would like to play was still not made, so I am trying to make it. I'm also eagerly awaiting the new Witcher, which seems like it could be something I will enjoy.

To touch on one of the Codex' favorite subjects: what do you think makes an RPG? In the context of open world games, the line between simulation/adventure and RPG seems quite blurry. What makes Warhorse RPG qualify as an RPG, for instance?

Years ago, when we played pen and paper, our goal was to experience something and make it as real as possible. The rules were the tools to make sure that the “simulation” would be accurate. When the computer RPGs started to appear, the premise was the same: I want to simulate how it is to be a knight wandering in a huge world, doing various stuff. The computers were not powerful enough, so a lot of stuff had to be left to the imagination and some kind of simulation based on numbers, luck and probabilities instead of real skill. I would say that the RPG rules and all those stats are just the means to simulate the world. RPG is an attempt for an ultimate simulation, that includes even the growth of the character and other things that are not visible.

Today, computers are powerful enough for accurate real-time visuals with all the simulation calculated in the background, and the controls are so sophisticated that it's possible to make very accurate skill-based simulation of combat or movement. So the RPG is no more about the dices and stats—it could be completely skill-based and it will finally resemble the real world as we all desired back in the days of pen and paper. Of course, a lot of people who are used to old rules or don’t like skill-based video games will not like it, but that's not important.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8776

 

[cherry blossom]

You can see the dialogue window, and it isn't pausing the game. You really focus on that, that you never pause the game when we have a dialogue, and that will be the main source of the whole experience that brings it together.

What?

Fine people of the Codex loved Alpha Protocol THIS MUCH when it did the same thing.

 

[thesheeep]

I'm guessing they have much larger budget and team for M&B2 so it would be cool if they made fights more realistic, including animations.

The good thing about M&B combat was never realism in combat animations.
It was about control influenced well by character stats.

I don't remember any other game that gives as much precise control to the player while also being influenced that much by the character's stats.
The combat controls just work very well, action-RPG controls done right, IMO.

If you would introduce realistic combat animations to that, I'd bet you would lose a lot of that control.
And that would be a huge "no, thank you" to me.

Of course, I'm not saying the animations couldn't be improved anywhere. Obviously, they can be and most likely will be.

 

[J_C]

You can see the dialogue window, and it isn't pausing the game. You really focus on that, that you never pause the game when we have a dialogue, and that will be the main source of the whole experience that brings it together.

What?

Fine people of the Codex loved Alpha Protocol THIS MUCH when it did the same thing.

How are these the same? AP had cinematic dialogues, where your response was a stance from the dialogue wheel. In Spellforce, I assume you will see longer dialogues with several dialogue options. A timed system can be frustrating those who are reading slower.

 

[Smejki]

Looking forward to calling my character ”Trianon, the Scourge of Magyars”. :D

Kingdom Come has a pre-set main character with a fixed name, face and background. You'll always be Henry, humble son of a blacksmith, whose family is killed by wild Cumans.

Wait, werent Cumans more of pre-romanians/bulgarians? I remember something about them trying to rape Hungary most of the time, not as their allies.. Must brush up on history

Yup, Cumans come from further to the east. Ethnically they are close to Tatars. However as of 1400s they were 'recently' Christianized and also due to Mongol invasion many of them settled in Hungary (thus learned Hungarian) and were quite popular as mercenaries. Which is why king Sigismund used them as a significant part of his invasion forces in Bohemia in 1403.

 

[Smejki]

Looking forward to calling my character ”Trianon, the Scourge of Magyars”. :D

Kingdom Come has a pre-set main character with a fixed name, face and background. You'll always be Henry, humble son of a blacksmith, whose family is killed by wild Cumans.

Now if only it had sex cards...

Cards were not a thing back in 1403.

 

[HobGoblin42]

Cards were not a thing back in 1403.

Some clerics damned cards and actually burned some people for playing with it, but playing cards already existed in the 14th century. Some cities as Venice officially declared them illegal in 1376 AD.

A card from the 14th century:

And a much more impressive one from 1450 with the title "Trumpeter of Hungary"

A set from approx. 1450:

Spoiler

 

[veevoir]

Here you go, the paid DLC minigame material for Kingdom Come is right here, in those cards

 

[Lycra Suit]

If Spellforce turns out anything like the first cancelled Warcraft 3 game I would say there's a lot of reasons to look forward to it. But the author's nonchalance is a party pooper.

 

[Smejki]

Cards were not a thing back in 1403.

playing cards already existed in the 14th century. Some cities as Venice officially declared them illegal in 1376 AD.

Fukken Italians and that modern Rennaisance hip thingie of theirs.

A set from approx. 1450:

Yup, cards became a popular thing in Bohemia around that time.

 

[Bohrain]

Cards were not a thing back in 1403.

And a much more impressive one from 1450 with the title "Trumpeter of Hungary"

A set from approx. 1450:

That's a damn ugly cat.

 

[Bubbles]

I'm sure Grimlore will appreciate Bubbles' candour in calling their game total shit.

Grimore actually seem to be doing quite well at the moment; they're currently hiring for 10 open positions, including Technical Director, Creative Director, and Lead Game Designer. Let's just hope those aren't for Spellforce 3

Hmm...

Creative Director (m/f)

Experience as a game designer in a professional environment (exceptions are made for large & complex great modding projects) with RTS/RPG games

Passion for roleplaying games and/or real-time strategy is welcomed

Technical Director (m/f)

Passion for realtime strategy or roleplaying games is welcomed

Project Manager/Producer (m/f)

Passion for real-time strategy or roleplaying games is welcomed

Lead Game Designer (m/f)

Experience as a game designer in a professional environment (exceptions are made for large & complex great modding projects) with RTS/RPG games

Let's continue not to assume the worst. Is Spellforce 4 in the works already? I guess it could also be a Space Siege-type spin-off. Or Impossible Creatures 2.

In any case, something for the Codex to keep an eye on.

 

[T. Reich]

Spellforce 3 gameplay sorta reminded me of Dungeon Siege (the first one).

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

Looking forward to calling my character ”Trianon, the Scourge of Magyars”. :D

Kingdom Come has a pre-set main character with a fixed name, face and background. You'll always be Henry, humble son of a blacksmith, whose family is killed by wild Cumans.

Wait, werent Cumans more of pre-romanians/bulgarians? I remember something about them trying to rape Hungary most of the time, not as their allies.. Must brush up on history

Best be careful with that shit. Romanians are so sensitive about their probable Cuman origins that the government banned exhuming and DNA testing one of the early Romanian kings because some Historians agree that he might not be a pure-blooded Latin-Romanian guy, but a filthy steppe-mongrel Cuman sort. And that would be just too much.

Another lie from Magyars who can't cope with being Azn.

 

[aweigh]

HobGoblin42

whatever happened to the turn-based game you were working on?