Codex Review RPG Codex Retrospective Review: Pillars of Eternity Revisited

[felipepepe]

SCL has more interesting character building, more interesting itemization, a better setting, some actually decent companions and a couple interesting twists in the story.

Combat and spell making was slightly more interesting

So Tyranny has better combat and Sword Coast Legends has better companions and character building than Pillars of Eternity? Seriously?

I mean, PoE has 82 monster types in the bestiary, plus the humanoid enemies. Tyranny has THREE enemy types, but I guess they both have "same encounters copy pasted all over the game" because your butthurt says so. Fuck logic. And yeah, I'm sure Durance, Grieving Mother and even Éder can't hold a candle to the amazing characters in SCL, such as "angry fighter #5".

 

[Excidium II]

Is this the official review now.

 

[Latro]

Is this the official review now.

of course it is, we here at RPG Codex have always loved Pillars of Eternity

 

[Bluer]

After reading the review I noticed a couple of typos:

...and at times even facisnating.
Obidian's team refined...
...you will definetely have found...

I didn't read parts of it because I didn't want to get spoiled as I haven't played through the game yet. Thank you for the retrospective.

 

[Fenix]

The only thing I liked in PoE was Calisca, and they killed her.
Enough of this!

Might is still just strength as far as the game is concerned, so my weedy level 2 wizard was able to flip over tables due to his strength might score and that shit killed my suspension of disbelief right away.

Happened with me too.

Decent Reddit thread about this review: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/6ldrgc/rpg_codex_retrospective_review_pillars_of/

Are we such desperate that we seek fame and new users on reddit or what?
Can someone read between the lines for poor Russian codexer fellow, and decifer this?

 

[Goral]

I was a fierce critic of PoE, but those two games are miles apart.

Go easy with hyperboles.

My personal opinion: is PoE objectively on par with Baldur's Gate I? Yes.

Fierceness indeed.

 

[Zanzoken]

The issue here is not whether PoE is good or bad -- it's the fact that Codex is posting content with a clear goal of portraying the game in a positive light.

Let the rest of the game "journalists" handle the ass kissing. Codex may have a reputation for being too critical -- but when the media is essentially just a PR arm for devs & publishers then that dissenting voice is needed, even if it is overly harsh.

This "retrospective" may score some brownie points with Obsidian but it's bad for Codex credibility.

 

[Goral]

No need to feel dirty. See, any way you google it, the number one search for codex PoE review is always the original masterpiece of buthurt. As far as the internet is concerned, that is the codex review. And it is going to stay that way no matter how many re-reviews we get.

When you google it, sure, but what if you yandex/baidu/duck duck go it?

the number one search for codex PoE review is always the original masterpiece of buthurt

Isn't that partially because google knows your preferences (and is spying on you basically, even when you're logged off they have your IP)? This is how it looks like for Yandex, Baidu and Duck Duck Go:


Roxor's review is highest on Baidu only.

 

[thesheeep]

Did they fix the character system?
Are there choices by now that do not just do +5% here and +5% there?
Did the combat change from every character having 10-20 effects going on at the same time all of which do nothing except -5% to +5%, adding up to some numbers that are -20% to +20%?

No? Wake me up when the game has anything with impact going on.

Well, at least some of the stuns actually have a duration now...

PS: I did play the game with White March and I agree that the expansion content is much better.
But none of the game's other issues were ever fixed.
Balancing, my ass....

PPS: No, I do not hate PoE. I think it is an okay game (I had fun with it), but the amount of praise it gets from some people is just absurd.

 

[Rev]

Oh come on, Goral. He didn't said just that, in that same quote he also said these things:

HOWEVER, that's still a big fucking disappointment after all this years. Having better presentation than a game from 17 years ago is nothing less than the minimal obligation of a dev today, and role-playing elements like PoE has are the norm today.

Everything that doesn't come from BG's original formula or from the "How to design games and make friends in 2010" book is just lackluster

The most memorable part of PoE is Raedric's Hold. Now compare that with Redcliffe Castle in Dragon Age and realize how banal that is even next to Derp Age.

Doesn't seem like he's going too kindly on PoE, frankly.
Also maybe felipepepe doesn't hold BG1 in such a high regard and so PoE being on par doesn't really mean much to him, since it's clear he thinks that BG2 is the great game in the series and way superior to its predecessor. Iirc, Vault Dweller even said that PoE was better than both BGs when it comes to roleplaying but that doesn't mean much when you don't really like neither of those games (as in his case).

 

[Goral]

Rev
That doesn't change the fact that saying that he was a "fierce critic" of PoE is a huge exaggeration (or that PoE is MILES ahead of Tyranny, lol), he was basically disappointed and his critique was mild at most.

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

... Codex credibility.....

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Rev
That doesn't change the fact that saying that he was a "fierce critic" of PoE is a huge exaggeration (or that PoE is MILES ahead of Tyranny, lol), he was basically disappointed and his critique was mild at most.

That is not a reasonable reading of that post. Saying it added what every modern game takes for granted (i.e., its improvements were something any designer could have done) and "proceeded to fuck up on the actual system underneath" is mild criticism only for those who don't understand what "fuck up" means.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

felipepepe I really respect your work on cRPGs ( your crpg book thingy) and making an amazing blobber (generation xth) known to me.

When the Double fine disappoinment flooded the hyped up adventure game fans, your reaction was swift fierce brutal and honest. I am not too into adventure games, but your criticism of how double fine's action ( specially that of only one action instead of the mutitude of actions in old Sierra adv games and how dumbed down it was) was like a red pill of kickstarters to me.

Even your criticisms of PoE were thoughtful and to the point as Rev pointed out in his post.

I in principle agree with Darth Roxor's review that PoE was a dissapointment as it was painfully mediocre in all aspects. The best part of the IE games to me was the Mage Duels of BG2 and that is severly lacking with Josh's retarded every option is speshul and correct design policy.

Prime Junta review came as a desperate attempt to hide the desolate lackluster experience that is playing PoE.

Grunker is just grunkering with an extra large dose of shilling where he forcefeeds his retarded views on the IE games and other rpgs at the begining.

I repect you too much to accuse of being a shill.

But what made you take the blue pill in regards to PoE?

Is the decline and despair so much that there is no choice but to embrace it?

Why treat PoE as a saviour of crpgs when there are clearly superior options like D:OS, Underrail and AoD?

 

[Goral]

That is not a reasonable reading of that post. Saying it added what every modern game takes for granted (i.e., its improvements were something any designer could have done) and "proceeded to fuck up on the actual system underneath" is mild criticism only for those who don't understand what "fuck up" means.

Maybe for a RPGWatcher/Neogaf user. And you know what other word he uses in the next sentence? "Lackluster".

Seriously, if starting a post with a softening comment like this:

PoE is a very hard game to criticize... it's almost impossible to talk about it without bringing in comparisons to other IE games, and that only makes it worse, leading to historical context debates. And those are a pain in the butt.

is an example of fierce critique then... [insert insults here]

Saying it's on par with BG though should end this argument instantly though. And it's not just this post, I'm too lazy to do this for the rest of his posts.

 

[Rev]

That doesn't change the fact that saying that he was a "fierce critic" of PoE is a huge exaggeration (or that PoE is MILES ahead of Tyranny, lol), he was basically disappointed and his critique was mild at most.

I don't know, saying that everything that isn't copied from BG1's formula is bad doesn't seem mild to me. He probably changed (at least a bit) his opinion on PoE in the two years since its original release, maybe because he played with the patches or TWM and enjoyed it or maybe because he simply stopped caring so much about it, but at the time he wrote some very critic pieces about PoE (and in fact guys like Roxor and others who were not happy with Obsidian's work agreed with him), it's just that he never wrote a simple "it's utter shit/the worst thing ever" one-liner but more elaborate posts as in "the game had the potential to be good but it really isn't and this is why".

 

[Prime Junta]

I know this may come as a shock to you good

s, but ranting and screaming while foaming at the mouth !== fierce criticism. Fierce criticism can be mildly worded and polite. It's all about the strength of the arguments.

 

[Stompa]

I mean, PoE has 82 monster types in the bestiary, plus the humanoid enemies. Tyranny has THREE enemy types, but I guess they both have "same encounters copy pasted all over the game" because your butthurt says so.

In release PoE those 82 monster types didn't matter for shit, only 3 of them were actually sorta relevant to gameplay as you had to change your tactics to beat them (shadows, vampires and adra dragon). The rest you just checked the DR and did the usual things, and given the density of the combat in this game, you soon had a feeling you've fought that encounter 20 times already.

 

[Lhynn]

So Tyranny has better combat and Sword Coast Legends has better companions and character building than Pillars of Eternity? Seriously?

Dont lump me with mortmal.
SCL has better companions and character building indeed. It was just bad compared to 5E, and it was worse because that was a standard they set on themselves. PoEs system is the worst thing ive seen, its an abomination, its even worse than F.A.T.A.L.

I'm sure Durance

He was good but didnt belong in the game, narratively speaking he was a freaking alien. Everything and everyone else was so different in tone it was like barbie releasing a lovecraftian horror edition.

Grieving Mother

She was alright, kinda the same problem than durance.

Éder

A borring non-entity. Never gonna understand why some dumbfucks praise that thing, i found more depth and interesting conversation on a custom party member.

the amazing characters in SCL

What the fuck do you even know? have you beaten the fucking game? Codexers are so full of shit i swear to god, talking out of their asses all they long.

While they are based on stereotypes, all of those characters have depth. And their stories are intertwined with the games main quest or its side quests (which are all related in some way with the main story).
The elven priest, the human paladin, both the halfling brothers, the dwarven rogue and even the derro rogue are fairly interesting characters. They all have an entertaining enough story to tell, with a message. About duty, about greed, about faith, about youth, about family, etc.
Its not fucking Shakespeare, but its something. Ill take it 100 times over that overhyped and overrated piece of trash.

 

[Grunker]

I mean, PoE has 82 monster types in the bestiary, plus the humanoid enemies. Tyranny has THREE enemy types, but I guess they both have "same encounters copy pasted all over the game" because your butthurt says so.

those 82 monster types didn't matter for shit, only 3 of them were actually sorta relevant to gameplay as you had to change your tactics to beat them (shadows, vampires and adra dragon). The rest you just checked the DR and did the usual things, and given the density of the combat in this game, you soon had a feeling you've fought that encounter 20 times already.

Bullshitz. Even the difference betweem individual Lagufaeth is huge and no two types use the same AI. The Sidewinders will fuck you up with some of the highest damage in the game on PotD while the Broodmother is a kind of Caster tank, making the correct choice of who to focus - her or sidewinders - different for different parties. Getting to them in the first place is can be an ordeal in some of the random encounters, and getting to them without losing your backline even more so. Some times it can even be correct to start with a focus on their frontline if there are few sidewinders to protect your own. This is not your tactics changing depending on fighting Lagufaeth or another enemy type - it's just the individual composition of Lagufaeth groups.

And these are just your basic ass enemies, nearly every other enemy in the game has more going on than them.

Saying that you only have to change your tactics for three tells me one of two things: you're not playing on PotD, or you haven't played the game since 1.x.

 

[Stompa]

Saying that you only have to change your tactics for three tells me one of two things: you're playing on PotD, or you haven't played the game since 1.x.

release PoE

 

[Grunker]

<---- retard

Though, what's your point then? Your points aren't really relevant at this point. Also the lack of imperative to switch tactics at launch was more due to lack of hard counters and monster defenses/AI than missing monster diversity per se.

 

[Parabalus]

It's funny, all your negativity is just helping PoE, keep it up guys.

 

[Prime Junta]

It's telling that the usual suspects have fallen back on "but on release it was kind of shit." That the best you can do at this point?

 

[Stompa]

Wouldn't expect people to go back to play a 20+ hour game they didn't like solely to prove a guy on the Codex wrong.