Editorial RPG Codex Retrospective: Roguey smashes the patriarchy in Josh Sawyer's Icewind Dale

[wergle]

Adam Brennecke retweeted. That's two! Two developers! Ah ah ah

 

[wergle]

Nice writeup, by the way.

 

[Infinitron]

Infinitron - you are the worst "news" poster on this site.

Why?

 

[Darth Roxor]

I think this (Josh's) review (Josh's) of (Josh Sawyer's) Icewind Dale is not much of a (Josh's) review but rather a (Avellone's) useless writeup that says absolutely nothing other than: HEY GUISES (JOSH) I PLAYED THIS (JOSH'S) GAME (OF JOSH SAWYER'S) - HERE'S A BUNCH OF (JOSH'S) (SAWYERIAN) PARAGRAPHS THAT BOIL DOWN TO: Chapter x has y encounters with z enemies (courtesy of Josh Sawyer) that are p. cool if they are good (designed by Sawyer) and boring otherwise (fkn Avellone).

People: do yourselves a favour and read the review. Besides a few Sawyer-trolls, it's a very good IWD review, though I disagree with many parts of it. Well-researched and well-written.

Don't, it's not, and it's not.

 

[Roguey]

Roxor literally and figuratively needs to be spoonfed like a baby.

First section: What it is and how it came to be

Second section: Ways in which the system is different and improved compared to Baldur's Gate. A warning about how wisdom still doesn't work like AD&D says it does. Affirmation about how well weapons are supported. Opinions about spells (the rut of relying on simple and occassionally overpowered stuff that works well enough).

Third section: Boring generic story is boring and generic, but with bright spots. Examples of said bright spots.

Fourth section: Description of the gameplay, including how difficulty settings work, followed by examples of things I liked and didn't like. No, I'm not going to discuss in detail all those battles that involved =-leftclick-spacebar. That's the majority of "gameplay" in my experience. Fuck it.

Fifth section: Summary, mockery of http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8869

 

[Cosmo]

Recipe of the day : dilute Roguey's douchiness in the appropriate lenght of text, and obtain a pretty good review...
Who would have thought.

 

[Overboard]

You know A woman is paper-bag ugly when she is a feminist and her twitter profile pic is a dog.

Fixed.

Assimilation complete.

 

[Maiandros]

Assimilation complete.

Plasticité, Temporalité, Dialectique

 

[Grunker]

GRAREFAGAFASF

 

[Cowboy Moment]

It should be site policy to put that shit in spoiler tags under pain of Watchwitz.

 

[MicoSelva]

Good read

I agree with the most of the "review", but I did not really notice the difference between the good parts (made by Josh E. Sawyer) and the bad parts (made by Everyone Else) on my playthrough. It was all rather samey dungeon crawl in pretty locations. Here's the structure of this game:

Spoiler

1. Easthaven Tutorial Where You Should Remember To Do The Quest With The Water Nymph Because It Will Pay Off In The Future
2. Repeat 5 times (
Arundel says: there's a dungeon to explore
long dungeon exploration
Arundel says: well, exploring thus dungeon did not do the trick
)
3. Arundel turns out to be evil (PLOT TWIST!)
4. long dungeon exploration
5. back to Easthaven (hope you did the water nymph quest)

For me this is the second least memorable Infinity Engine game (IWD II is the first). Yeah, I've only finished it once, around release. I've later played it in multiplayer with my wife, but we only reached the third dungeon before giving up because of derp (even though we tried to liven up the game by using the most silly voice sets for characters - helped only a little).

It was one of these games which only made me feel relief after I was done with it, and not satisfaction mixed with sadness that there is no more good stuff. I guess the balance of story vs combat (and the quality of the former) was not right for my taste. I would also like better exploration and more open world, instead of being railroaded into dungeons in the prescripted order.

The one thing I liked was the part where You are in the ice temple and the monsters are not hostile (until you make them hostile) - that was pretty cool.

Oh, and I did enjoy reading @Merkwürdigliebe's LP of the game here on The Codex.

 

[CappenVarra]

Talking about writing in IWD without mentioning Yxunomei? Tsk, tsk.

Spoiler

No. You are one of many fireflies dancing for a moment in the night, feeling at your brightest that you can illuminate the universe at will. I am a star. I came into existence when your world took form. I am as persistent as time. Where I move, infernal tides crush foreign shores and nations of thought are drowned in blood.

 

[Kane]

I can really feel Roguey humping Josh's leg through the words. Good review.

 

[Darth Roxor]

First section: What it is and how it came to be

Second section: Ways in which the system is different and improved compared to Baldur's Gate. A warning about how wisdom still doesn't work like AD&D says it does. Affirmation about how well weapons are supported. Opinions about spells (the rut of relying on simple and occassionally overpowered stuff that works well enough).

Third section: Boring generic story is boring and generic, but with bright spots. Examples of said bright spots.

Fourth section: Description of the gameplay, including how difficulty settings work, followed by examples of things I liked and didn't like. No, I'm not going to discuss in detail all those battles that involved =-leftclick-spacebar. That's the majority of "gameplay" in my experience. Fuck it.

"Sections" 1st to 3rd are nothing more than glorified paragraphs, although that's not not much of a big deal for 1-2 because what the hell is one supposed to write about that in the context of IWD anyway, but 3rd? You very much completely skip how well-developed is the subplot of the elf/dwarf/orc war and how many things are left in the dark all the time concerning the main plot (calling them just "mini-mysteries" can't even be called an understatement), the downright excellent cinematics that connect the chapters and the spectacular music and art direction that add a fuckton to the atmosphere.

And don't make me laugh about the fourth section. Your "description of the gameplay" boils down to a chapter-by-chapter lazy-ass writeup of "there was an encounter with x enemies, it was cool/boring lol! (also sawyer)" paragraphs that are repeated to no effect whatsoever. And it would appear you can't even drive that one thing home, given how you state "Sometimes I'll find an encounter interesting if it has a unique aspect to it", and yet I would have to look for those with a flashlight, unless you consider "two shamans" to be a unique aspect of a generic lizardmen mob.

hue

I'm not surprised that you can only reply with a retardo fuckhueg image.

 

[Grunker]

I'm not surprised that you can only reply with a retardo fuckhueg image.

I'm not surprised you think there was more substance in your OMG JOSH reply than there was in my image.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Is IWD a holy cow that needs to be dethroned as well?

 

[Grunker]

Is IWD a holy cow that needs to be dethroned as well?

THE MOTHERFUCKING BUTTHURT, IT IS GLORIOUS

IWD was in my top25 as well, fucknut. I love IWD. But unlike you I don't think games I love are immune to criticism. And Roguey's criticism is sound. I disagree with Roguey on a shitload of conclusions (in fact, I suspect the two of us agree almost completely on the merits of the game) but me disagreeing with the review does not make it bad.

The only thing that plagues that review is too many inside jokes. Take those out and it's really good.

EDIT: This is the third thread outside of J_C's original, completely unrelated to the topic, in which you guys bring up your butthurt for my opinion of Fallout. It really hurt that bad?

 

[Kane]

get a goddamn room

 

[Blaine]

A review of a thirteen-year-old game that most of us have already played, written by a demonstrably biased source, and of almost no value to novice players thanks to the confusing plethora of inside jokes, tropes, and acronyms crowding an already too-short review.

I've just wasted five minutes of my life on what amounts to Roguey's usual rhetoric, except thinly disguised as a "review". Fuck you Infinitron, you knew I hardly ever read the news section, you devilish bastard.

 

[Mortmal]

You know A woman is paper-bag ugly when she is a feminist and her twitter profile pic is a dog.

Fixed.

ShamefuL.. I was not expecting that from you , there is very good looking feminists and they do play rpgs , i hope you were joking they are interested inchaos chronicle too you know.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Is IWD a holy cow that needs to be dethroned as well?

THE MOTHERFUCKING BUTTHURT, IT IS GLORIOUS


EDIT: This is the third thread outside of J_C's original, completely unrelated to the topic, in which you guys bring up your butthurt for my opinion of Fallout. It really hurt that bad?

I've noticed in that other thread how hilariously upset you get after it dropping, so I decided to use it as well.

Don't think it's my motherfucking butthurt that is glorious here.

 

[HobGoblin42]

You know A woman is paper-bag ugly when she is a feminist and her twitter profile pic is a dog.

Fixed.

ShamefuL.. I was not expecting that from you , there is very good looking feminists and they do play rpgs , i hope you were joking they are interested inchaos chronicle too you know.

Good looking women who are really interested in turn-based RPGs? Wake up, man, wake up.

(Disclaimer: feel free to prove me wrong )

 

[861129]

 

[wergle]

i for one care highly about whether or not women who play roleplaying games are attractive

By the way hobgob you chaos chronicles dudes should be playing expeditions: conquistador right now for some perspective

 

[Excidium]

Lesbians don't count