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Review RPG Codex Review: Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear

Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,397
I haven't really been following this game/expansion, but reading this thread now made me think of the colossal waste going on in the gaming industry. You have this great engine with its huge collection of assets in IE. It already has a combat system better than most stuff out there, an entire pre-made ruleset, a giant collection of art assets for all types of monsters, items, characters, buildings, etc. So what's the point of companies like Obsidian developing their own engines/technologies/assets to produce similar type isometric games and running out of funds and having to cut content as with PoE, when they could just license IE from Bioware/D&D and use pre-made stuff to focus on their area of expertise (writing/quest design/C&C) and produce some gem of an isometric game? Is it just so they can say their game is 3D? Do people who buy those types of RPGs even care? Would the licensing costs be prohibitive? Makes no sense to me.
 

SausageInYourFace

Codexian Sausage
Patron
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
3,858
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In your face
Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
The story of a videogame is more than just an Irenicus voiced by David Warner or a Minsc and Boo. It's what you, the player, make of it.

This line gave me feelings. Feelings in my heart.

Minsc has a rare prompt line where he satirizes an Internet mudslinging contest known as Gamergate. There are some loud voices out there who will tell you that this is the great cultural war of our time. Here's a reality check. Nobody cares. Really. Gamergate is just a fun diversion for everybody except its most fanatical participants. Some of you may live on the Internet, but most of us just vacation there.

Hallelujah! :salute: You are a brave man, Delterius.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

Self-Ejected
Joined
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Messages
1,866,227
Location
Third World
I haven't really been following this game/expansion, but reading this thread now made me think of the colossal waste going on in the gaming industry. You have this great engine with its huge collection of assets in IE. It already has a combat system better than most stuff out there, an entire pre-made ruleset, a giant collection of art assets for all types of monsters, items, characters, buildings, etc. So what's the point of companies like Obsidian developing their own engines/technologies/assets to produce similar type isometric games and running out of funds and having to cut content as with PoE, when they could just license IE from Bioware/D&D and use pre-made stuff to focus on their area of expertise (writing/quest design/C&C) and produce some gem of an isometric game? Is it just so they can say their game is 3D? Do people who buy those types of RPGs even care? Would the licensing costs be prohibitive? Makes no sense to me.
Yeah let's make the same fucking shit ever, forever. This constant reuse is part of why games today are banal, unimaginative shit.

There have been 6 games in this engine already. Enough is enough. Everything it can offer was already experienced well over a decade ago.

Hallelujah! :salute: You are a brave man, Delterius.
He's just a typical brazilian. Too grown up for internet debates but writing serious content about fairyland vidyagaem.
 

pippin

Guest
Do people who buy those types of RPGs even care? Would the licensing costs be prohibitive? Makes no sense to me.

There's a market for RPGMaker games, and RPGMaker itself.
I don't know if licensing is that expensive but often you have to follow guidelines and rules when dealing with the content. As I've said before, Beamdog couldn't change anything from the old games, only add stuff on top of it, and also had to release Adventure Y/SoD as DLC because Hasbro won't allow the use of rulesets other than the current one, that is, 5th ed. Not everyone is GW.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
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Entre a serra e o mar.
Too grown up for internet debates but writing serious content about fairyland vidyagaem.
Lol no, I simply find it slightly more respectable to have no life to speak of (such as being an avid consumerist of digital toys aka videogames) than to have it be a function of social media and whoever's hashtag trends the most. If anything I love internet debates. Debate me bro.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,045
I haven't really been following this game/expansion, but reading this thread now made me think of the colossal waste going on in the gaming industry. You have this great engine with its huge collection of assets in IE. It already has a combat system better than most stuff out there, an entire pre-made ruleset, a giant collection of art assets for all types of monsters, items, characters, buildings, etc. So what's the point of companies like Obsidian developing their own engines/technologies/assets to produce similar type isometric games and running out of funds and having to cut content as with PoE, when they could just license IE from Bioware/D&D and use pre-made stuff to focus on their area of expertise (writing/quest design/C&C) and produce some gem of an isometric game? Is it just so they can say their game is 3D? Do people who buy those types of RPGs even care? Would the licensing costs be prohibitive? Makes no sense to me.
Because playing the same fucking game over and over again sucks. Not to mention that it wasn't a good game to begin with.

Besides, Black Isle had to shelf BG3 when it was 80% done because the DnD license had expired (Herve decided to renew the console DnD license instead), which tells you all you need to know about WotC (who also decided not to do Against the Giants with Troika because they worried that too many DnD games would damage their shitty brand).
 

Delterius

Arcane
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Entre a serra e o mar.
Maybe Hervé could partner with Beamdog to give us Baldur's Gate 3: Enhanced Edition. With 20% of the content left unfinished, we could be looking at the next Troika-like instant classic.
 

pippin

Guest
How much of the stuff for BG3 ended up on PoE? I think I heard something to that effect, that Josh recycled some concepts of The Black Hound for PoE.
 

Space Insect

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
868
Location
Shaggai
I haven't really been following this game/expansion, but reading this thread now made me think of the colossal waste going on in the gaming industry. You have this great engine with its huge collection of assets in IE. It already has a combat system better than most stuff out there, an entire pre-made ruleset, a giant collection of art assets for all types of monsters, items, characters, buildings, etc. So what's the point of companies like Obsidian developing their own engines/technologies/assets to produce similar type isometric games and running out of funds and having to cut content as with PoE, when they could just license IE from Bioware/D&D and use pre-made stuff to focus on their area of expertise (writing/quest design/C&C) and produce some gem of an isometric game? Is it just so they can say their game is 3D? Do people who buy those types of RPGs even care? Would the licensing costs be prohibitive? Makes no sense to me.
I've also heard that the Infinity Engine is a complete pain to work with.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,313
Location
Terra da Garoa
An old overview of mine on Baldur's Gate III: The Black Hound:

First announced in 2001 and commonly known as Baldur's Gate III: The Black Hound, the game actually bears no relation to the plot, location or characters of the previous Baldur's Gate game. It wouldn't even be developed by BioWare, or use the famous Infinity Engine. In fact, the name “Baldur’s Gate III” was a legal trick, as during its development Interplay lost the Dungeons & Dragons license to Atari but could still develop D&D games under the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale brands.

Under code names like "FR6" and "Project Jefferson", The Black Hound began as its own game in late 2000, being developed by a small team as a side project. Full development would only begin in 2002, after Icewind Dale 2 was released. The team was led by Josh Sawyer, a History Major, and while it would still use the AD&D ruleset and be set in Forgotten Realms (like Baldur's Gate), it would be a more grounded, low-level adventure, with a heavier focus on role-playing.

What is known of the original plot is that you would be set in the Dalelands region of Forgotten Realms. There you would create a new character – not a child of gods or special in any way – that would run into the eponymous black hound being fiercely hunted by a cleric named May Farrow. More than just a mere animal, the hound was a physical manifestation of her guilt for allowing her husband to die and then failing to properly resurrect him.

She would kill the dog, but it's spirit would bound to you, allowing you to see and interact with the guilt of others. The cleric would then begin to hunt you as well, and the game would be centered on your journey to understand what happened to you, interacting with factions like the Archenriders, the Church of Lathander and the Red Wizards of Thay, until eventually confronting May Farrow's husband - now a powerful abomination which feeds from guilt.

Not much is know about the gameplay, other than it would be based on the previous Infinity Engine games - with multiple party members are real-time-with-pause combat -, but updated to the recently released D&D 3rd Edition ruleset. Karma would be a central part of the game, as players would be able to explore the game's world in a non-linear way, but would face the consequences of their actions, including failed and incomplete quests. To ensure this, a robust reputation system was devised, which would track your relationship with individual factions and locations, as well as your overall fame/infamy.

The only thing similar with PoE seems to be the "you're a random Joe who gets super powers and can read people's guilt/past" aspect. Otherwise, it seems way more interesting than PoE.

Anyway, it's clearly a proto-Obsidian game, and something so lore/writing-dependent like this would be a disaster on Beamdog's hands.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,405
I liked the review, it is informative and while I agree with it, I wouldn't be so neutral positive. This DLC felt like a third tit on Scarlett Johanson, two big ones are already fine, a third is just weird and feel unnecessary. There are some weirdos that would like it though, there is taste to everything.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
1,866,227
Location
Third World
"you're a random Joe who gets super powers and can read people's guilt/past"
Imagine that premise on Hamber Scott's hands.

leowet.png
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,891
I liked the review. It says exactly enough about the controversy and keeps focus on the game itself. Now i have to play the game sometime to see if i agree with it.
 

M0RBUS

Augur
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
206
I kind of liked Lionheart.
 

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