Review RPG Codex Review: NEO Scavenger

[bledcarrot]

Adding my voice to the chorus of praise here. Solid game, I've pumped so many slackjawed hours in to this game over the last year, utterly transfixed and engrossed. Agree about the instadeath though, I raised this as an issue on the blue bottle forums a while back. But on the whole, amazing work, one of my fav go to games when nothing else on my steam list is grabbing me

 

[dcfedor]

Thanks again, guys! It's encouraging to hear that there are still folks out there just discovering the game, and more importantly, enjoying it! I don't think I ever would've predicted there were this many folks who enjoy such a game. I figured it'd be too harsh and esoteric. I guess us "killer DM" types are more common than I realized

Actually, is there a word for a callous, rather than adversarial DM? I wouldn't say I'm trying to kill players as much as just deaf to their pleas for mercy.

I don't know if you have a price point in mind, but I'd pay at least $20 for something this intriguing.

I was planning to launch it at the same price as the PC version ($15USD). Some say this is mobile suicide, and I'll probably sacrifice some mobile players doing so. However, I think it makes sense to keep the price on par with PC. It'll be the same product, after all. I definitely don't want to steer towards F2P models or the $0.99 price point.

the game is ultimately at its best as a procedural-content creator.

I agree. The stories we imagine the game is telling us can be way more powerful than the static written pieces. The static writing sort of sets a framework and some points of reference, but our minds fill in blanks way more effectively.

In this vein, I've been working on a prototype that tries to simulate more of the social side of characters. Sort of an emotional equivalent to NEO Scavenger's metabolic sim. Instead of hunger, warmth, and thirst, it tracks isolation, self-respect, fulfillment, etc. I want to see if I can get AIs having procedural, abstract drama with each other, in a way that lets players imagine what's going on.

E.g. instead of me writing thousands of canned-conversation snippets, let the interactions be more abstract so we can read into them. "Abner is arguing with Bruce. Bruce is angry with Abner. Bruce complains to Charlie. Bruce is holding a grudge against Abner. Charlie tries to placate Bruce." Etc.

I'm hoping that I can just sort of "suggest" something is happening, and like NEO Scavenger, players will imagine more detail to fill the gaps. If you're interested in more details on the system as it progresses, it's been the topic of my recent devlog entries.

Thanks again for the kind words, all!

 

[Infinitron]

dcfedor Don't pull a Chris Crawford on us!

 

[Weirdstuffinspace]

The game is fucking awesome. Enjoy every ruthless second of it.

 

[Ninjerk]

Thanks again, guys! It's encouraging to hear that there are still folks out there just discovering the game, and more importantly, enjoying it! I don't think I ever would've predicted there were this many folks who enjoy such a game. I figured it'd be too harsh and esoteric. I guess us "killer DM" types are more common than I realized

Actually, is there a word for a callous, rather than adversarial DM? I wouldn't say I'm trying to kill players as much as just deaf to their pleas for mercy.

I don't know if you have a price point in mind, but I'd pay at least $20 for something this intriguing.

I was planning to launch it at the same price as the PC version ($15USD). Some say this is mobile suicide, and I'll probably sacrifice some mobile players doing so. However, I think it makes sense to keep the price on par with PC. It'll be the same product, after all. I definitely don't want to steer towards F2P models or the $0.99 price point.

the game is ultimately at its best as a procedural-content creator.

I agree. The stories we imagine the game is telling us can be way more powerful than the static written pieces. The static writing sort of sets a framework and some points of reference, but our minds fill in blanks way more effectively.

In this vein, I've been working on a prototype that tries to simulate more of the social side of characters. Sort of an emotional equivalent to NEO Scavenger's metabolic sim. Instead of hunger, warmth, and thirst, it tracks isolation, self-respect, fulfillment, etc. I want to see if I can get AIs having procedural, abstract drama with each other, in a way that lets players imagine what's going on.

E.g. instead of me writing thousands of canned-conversation snippets, let the interactions be more abstract so we can read into them. "Abner is arguing with Bruce. Bruce is angry with Abner. Bruce complains to Charlie. Bruce is holding a grudge against Abner. Charlie tries to placate Bruce." Etc.

I'm hoping that I can just sort of "suggest" something is happening, and like NEO Scavenger, players will imagine more detail to fill the gaps. If you're interested in more details on the system as it progresses, it's been the topic of my recent devlog entries.

Thanks again for the kind words, all!

The Sims. There's a reason Molyneux stole from it.

 

[tuluse]

Zafehouse Diaries had a really cool abstract social system.

And of course strategy games like Paradox and Civ4 do abstract reputation and influence systems really well.

 

[dcfedor]

dcfedor Don't pull a Chris Crawford on us!

Uh oh, what's "pulling a Chris Crawford?" I'm Googling, and the best I can come up with is Storytron. Is this a white whale for him? Even if not, I see some mentions of generative stories and dynamic character interactions, so maybe I should do some homework

The Sims. There's a reason Molyneux stole from it.

Indeed. The abstract interactions of that game are very relevant. Stat bars, relationships, interaction effects...it'd be wise for me to see how others have attempted similar things so I can learn from them!

Zafehouse Diaries had a really cool abstract social system.

And of course strategy games like Paradox and Civ4 do abstract reputation and influence systems really well.

I haven't tried Zafehous Diaries yet, but I am familiar with CKII and the Civ series. CKII, in particular, has some really interesting social trait lists and models.

 

[Infinitron]

Uh oh, what's "pulling a Chris Crawford?" I'm Googling, and the best I can come up with is Storytron. Is this a white whale for him?

Oh yes, the biggest of white whales: http://kotaku.com/30-years-later-one-mans-still-trying-to-fix-video-gam-1490377821

 

[dcfedor]

Oh yes, the biggest of white whales: http://kotaku.com/30-years-later-one-mans-still-trying-to-fix-video-gam-1490377821

Very interesting. Thanks for this!

For better or worse, I actually do find myself agreeing with some of his points. NEO Scavenger was meant to focus less on combat and more on mundane survival, despite its deep combat system. I felt glorified combat got plenty of attention in games, and humbling it would be an interesting take.

And Crawford's complaint about the lack of verbs in gameplay is one I've echoed more than a few times. (Some might argue NEO Scavenger tries to have too many verbs, in fact. More than it can handle, anyway.)

On the other hand, his (admittedly weird mix of) pessimism and hubris rubs me the wrong way. I'll follow a humble man to the ends of the earth, but show me a righteous zealot and I'll back away

I'll have to dig into the Storytron docs to see what he's tried. I think one thing that may work in my favor is surrounding this social sim in subject matter that is more "vulgar," to borrow his terminology. E.g. I'm kind of making this sim to fill the long, boring space voyages in a Firefly-like way. While players traverse the system, instead of fast-forwarding through the boring bits like in Elite II or X, the player focuses on crew drama and ship maintenance, plus some navigation strategy. In other words, make the long voyage a game loop worth playing instead of skipping.

Plus, I'm hoping that whatever fruits the social sim yields might help all future games, including NEO Scavenger "2." Even if it's just a better morale/negotiation system.

 

[Crooked Bee]

dcfedor Chris Crawford is actually running a p. interesting KS now that you might find interesting: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/544670315/siboot

 

[dcfedor]

dcfedor Chris Crawford is actually running a p. interesting KS now that you might find interesting: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/544670315/siboot

I saw! After googling Chris, I stumbled across that Siboot KS. I'm not sure if it appeals to me as a gamer, but as a researcher/dev, I'm interested to see how it comes out!

 

[madbringer]

Great review that does the game justice, even if I don't agree with some of the negatives so much. Doesn't matter. Fine write-up, indeed.

I mean, fuck. This easily ranks among my personal TOP5 of games I've played during the last decade or so, mainstream and indie alike. As a survival simulator, NEO Scavenger eats and shits out pretty much every other game in a similar vein. Makes them look pathetic, actually. Special props for the soundtrack, it's outstanding and contributes heavily to the atmosphere. Truly, a gem to be cherished.

 

[Dead Guy]

Good review, and probably the most refreshing game I played this/last year.

As someone pointed out (I think), the story each life writes in terms of random encounters, what gear you find and how you freeze to death because the map decided there are no abandoned buildings tile of any kind past the first one within hypothermia radius of the cryo facility, works really well here.

It was also great LP material for me, putting in other posters IRL traits (more or less), lightly role-playing them and seeing how they did was fun.

I loved the feeling I got the first time the DMC map came up, perfect music, perfect Syndicatesque feel. Would buy DMLC.

 

[Iri]

The lyrics to that metal song on page 1 suck. Why isn't anybody making fun of them? "Where I lay my head is home" is just the worst, c'mpn man. That is terrible.