Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Pathfinder Kingmaker

[razvedchiki]

Kingfaker is the opposite of everything that makes PnP D&D great, so yes, you are probably right.

it is the opposite because it is a pc game, how can it be otherwise? you cant expect the pc game to adher to the tabletop rules 100%.

 

[Gregz]

Kingfaker is the opposite of everything that makes PnP D&D great, so yes, you are probably right.

it is the opposite because it is a pc game, how can it be otherwise? you cant expect the pc game to adher to the tabletop rules 100%.

It has nothing to do with the rules.

 

[razvedchiki]

its a different medium for cthulu's sake.

 

[ArchAngel]

OK I am "few" months late as I only now found out there is finally a P:KM review :D

Anyways good review, you got to all major points. But for me it is an instant classic and I did play it from start multiple times.

 

[Lasagna42]

This was - IS - a fantastic game that I played straight after release, warts and all. It's the only game I can think of got really bold with the creaky D&D alignment system. Rather than treat it as a mild embarrassment, best for "flavor", it leaned in hard and did an amazing job.

If you decide to play as Lawful Neutral, that game will allow you to make that happen, with multiple options to act in a Lawful Neutral manner which have direct effects on the game. Or if you're me, you'll play as a neutral evil Inquisitor, realize as the game progresses that the vision you have in mind for your character is actually Chaotic Neutral, decide to make the long trip across the alignment spectrum from NE to CN, temporarily losing your powers along the way, and it was worth it. Really an amazing game.

But it was RTwP, the last one (I think) that I played. I'm done with that; it's too limiting, I'm bored of the scrum. Only tactical games now. I'm on my second run through Deadfire, and I'm loving the combat.

Until this review, when I discovered that turn-based play is now an option. Looks like I'm not getting any sleep tonight! I'm thinking "monk" this time, maybe. It is going to be such a better game.

 

[Lasagna42]

As I hinted at, I fired up a new game of Pathfinder: Kingmaker after reading this review (it was a great review - thanks, man).

I'd finished the game when it first came out, before the expansions, before there was a turn-based option. I'm turn-based only these days, and I loved my first playthrough, so I fired it up.

Immediately I was reminded at how great the options for character creation and development are. I'm trying a Monk/Rogue/(Slayer? Fighter? Cleric?) and I think it's going to be a good one.

I'm worried that I might have stumbled on the "most fun" alignment to play in my first run. The game really let you play Chaotic Neutral - it clearly spent time figuring out exactly what that would mean - a first for a CRPG, I think. I got the impression that the alignment system was really creative and robust. So for this run, I decided again to avoid "good", and went with Lawful Evil.

So far - and I'm only a couple hours in - that piece of it has been a little disappointing. The Chaotic Neutral options were creative and interesting; Lawful Evil is the usual mustache-twirling stuff where you just insult and murder old ladies because you're eeeeeeeeevil. As though no shitheel has ever paid someone a compliment just to get their way.

Anyway, small point. The game is still a ton of fun, and I anxiously wait for every level up. Still, I'm playing Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire at the same time (almost done with my second run). My ratings on which game is better through a bunch of vectors created by scientists:

1. Game world: P:K is a bit better
2. Main Plot: P:K is better by a country mile
3. Sidequests, environment, exploration, interesting NPCs, the feel of participating in a living world, creative writing, interesting non-combat mechanics and solutions to quests, risky and experimental game systems (say kingdom management vs. ship to ship combat): P:K, P:K, P:K, P:K, P:K, P:K, P:K, P:K.
4. Combat: Deadfire.
5. Better overall game: Deadfire.

Deadfire just kills at the tactical combat and character development. I'm starting to realize after all these years that it might be much more important to me than the story. And the Deadfire story is AWFUL (though the DLC is pretty good). But the turned-based combat: I haven't enjoyed it this much since X-COM2, and before that the Gold Box games. It's amazing, and completely makes up for some heavy flaws elsewhere in the game.

 

[Whisper]

Deadfire just kills at the tactical combat and character development.

Not sure if serious.

 

[Lasagna42]

Deadfire just kills at the tactical combat and character development.

Not sure if serious.

Definitely - I love it. The turn-based version, I mean. Not the real time with pause. Might be I'm too used to RTwP, so any improvement blows me away, but PoE2 is one of my favorite systems.

 

[Desiderius]

I’m the opposite. Deadfire RTwP ends up being pretty good. TB drudgery.

Seems like another case of someone playing RTwP as RT and only getting to enjoy the gameplay as designed with TB.

Many such cases.

 

[Whisper]

Deadfire just kills at the tactical combat and character development.

Not sure if serious.

Definitely - I love it. The turn-based version, I mean. Not the real time with pause. Might be I'm too used to RTwP, so any improvement blows me away, but PoE2 is one of my favorite systems.

It is combat system is horrible. Someone ok at start but later in game just breaks, fights become too easy. Why would you need tactics if all battles are trivial?

 

[Whisper]

Furthermore, while the game is technically more difficult than its predecessor, it doesn’t remain challenging for too long. The level cap in Deadfire is 20, and around level 11 you reach a magical turning point where you can faceroll anything in your way, except for a handful of end-game fights, mostly against vampires (sorry, fampyrs). Whether you do that via select all -> left click or party AI settings that play the game for you is your choice, but needless to say neither is particularly exciting.

From what I’ve gathered, the level 11 cut-off for difficulty is universal no matter the difficulty setting too, and these are fairly robust. Apart from the four difficulty settings from easy to path of the damned, you can also activate level scaling either up or down (if you’re a fan of daedric brigands) and toggle various features such as area/encounter difficulty indicators. I played on veteran (hard) so I can’t personally speak for path of the damned, because I’d have to be damned stupid to try it after seeing it in action in PoE1, but various folks’ opinions seem to indicate that PotD only makes a difference for the phase when difficulty still matters, and after that the level 11 cut-off point neuters it just the same.

and

But finally we have the cherry on top. If you hate having to face even a modicum of challenge and the awesome buttons at your disposal are not enough to get you through the night, Obsidian are happy to supply you with the Empower function. Empower can be used once per encounter and a few times per rest by any character to either recharge half its spell and ability points or use one ability as if it were cast by someone 5 levels higher. Typically this means wiping out entire mobs with one empowered fireball.

I recommend not using the Empower function.

https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10984

 

[Lasagna42]

Furthermore, while the game is technically more difficult than its predecessor, it doesn’t remain challenging for too long. The level cap in Deadfire is 20, and around level 11 you reach a magical turning point where you can faceroll anything in your way, except for a handful of end-game fights, mostly against vampires (sorry, fampyrs). Whether you do that via select all -> left click or party AI settings that play the game for you is your choice, but needless to say neither is particularly exciting.

From what I’ve gathered, the level 11 cut-off for difficulty is universal no matter the difficulty setting too, and these are fairly robust. Apart from the four difficulty settings from easy to path of the damned, you can also activate level scaling either up or down (if you’re a fan of daedric brigands) and toggle various features such as area/encounter difficulty indicators. I played on veteran (hard) so I can’t personally speak for path of the damned, because I’d have to be damned stupid to try it after seeing it in action in PoE1, but various folks’ opinions seem to indicate that PotD only makes a difference for the phase when difficulty still matters, and after that the level 11 cut-off point neuters it just the same.

and

But finally we have the cherry on top. If you hate having to face even a modicum of challenge and the awesome buttons at your disposal are not enough to get you through the night, Obsidian are happy to supply you with the Empower function. Empower can be used once per encounter and a few times per rest by any character to either recharge half its spell and ability points or use one ability as if it were cast by someone 5 levels higher. Typically this means wiping out entire mobs with one empowered fireball.

I recommend not using the Empower function.

https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10984

I'm playing on PotD on Ironman mode, so that makes the battles - including the battles towards the end of the game, where I am now - extremely tense (for me).

I may be playing it wrong, but while I found the beginning of the game significantly more difficult (and therefore more exciting), I'm not finding the mid and end game a walk in the park; definitely not trivial, particularly the DLC - this is my first time playing the DLC, and it's challenging. I WILL say that the game goes on far too long. I put it aside for weeks at a time until my interest pops up again.

And yeah, I don't really use the Empower function unless incredibly desperate. But I also don't find it to be the room-clearing superweapon you're suggesting.

 

[ArchAngel]

Furthermore, while the game is technically more difficult than its predecessor, it doesn’t remain challenging for too long. The level cap in Deadfire is 20, and around level 11 you reach a magical turning point where you can faceroll anything in your way, except for a handful of end-game fights, mostly against vampires (sorry, fampyrs). Whether you do that via select all -> left click or party AI settings that play the game for you is your choice, but needless to say neither is particularly exciting.

From what I’ve gathered, the level 11 cut-off for difficulty is universal no matter the difficulty setting too, and these are fairly robust. Apart from the four difficulty settings from easy to path of the damned, you can also activate level scaling either up or down (if you’re a fan of daedric brigands) and toggle various features such as area/encounter difficulty indicators. I played on veteran (hard) so I can’t personally speak for path of the damned, because I’d have to be damned stupid to try it after seeing it in action in PoE1, but various folks’ opinions seem to indicate that PotD only makes a difference for the phase when difficulty still matters, and after that the level 11 cut-off point neuters it just the same.

and

But finally we have the cherry on top. If you hate having to face even a modicum of challenge and the awesome buttons at your disposal are not enough to get you through the night, Obsidian are happy to supply you with the Empower function. Empower can be used once per encounter and a few times per rest by any character to either recharge half its spell and ability points or use one ability as if it were cast by someone 5 levels higher. Typically this means wiping out entire mobs with one empowered fireball.

I recommend not using the Empower function.

https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10984

I'm playing on PotD on Ironman mode, so that makes the battles - including the battles towards the end of the game, where I am now - extremely tense (for me).

I may be playing it wrong, but while I found the beginning of the game significantly more difficult (and therefore more exciting), I'm not finding the mid and end game a walk in the park; definitely not trivial, particularly the DLC - this is my first time playing the DLC, and it's challenging. I WILL say that the game goes on far too long. I put it aside for weeks at a time until my interest pops up again.

And yeah, I don't really use the Empower function unless incredibly desperate. But I also don't find it to be the room-clearing superweapon you're suggesting.

P:KM is not even doable on hardest difficulty on ironman so if you want a real challenge do it TB. I know some people needed 20 tries to just get out of the Mansion at start :D