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Review RPG Codex Review: Pillars of Eternity - By Vault Dweller and the Spirit of Grunker

Prime Junta

Guest
Damn, this is a good review. Much better than mine.

If I provided the inspiration for you to finish it Vault Dweller then all that work didn't go to waste. :salute:
 

Shevek

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2003
Messages
1,570
This review is alright but doesnt contain the details or depth of analysis of yours, PJ. I sincerely hope you and Felipepe finish it up.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
That depth of detail is only interesting to a handful of autistic-spectrum systemfags. That's a minority within a minority within a minority, even here. The format we had in mind would bloat that 12000 words easily into 16000 or 20000, which is half of novel-length. Not worth the trouble. The text is out anyway so if someone wants to read it they can as it is.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Why the fuck would you ask a guy who thinks RTwP is inherently flawed to review a RTwP game? VD, like most turn based fags, cannot coherently analyze rtwp because he mistakes his personal dislike for flaws. Example:

Sequential combat is a lot more complex and a turn, yours or the enemy's, isn't a pause - it's a window to plan, respond to what the enemy's up to, execute strategies, and most importantly, ensure that your party members will survive the enemy's turn. In fact, planning for the enemy's turn is what makes TB so engaging. Any idiot can pick some targets to attack during his turn, but making sure that all your men survive the enemy's turn and the battle (like in XCOM, for example) is the real challenge.

A turn is a pause. It's also a window to plan, respond to what the enemy's up to, execute strategies, and ensure that your party members will survive the enemy's turn. That's the whole point of having RTwP: allow a window to plan without disrupting the natural flow of the combat (and by flow I don't mean the adrenaline rush when you experience awesome acshun but the way the combat actually plays out when the game is running). But because VD doesn't like rtwp he describes the same thing positively when describing TB but negatively when describing RT, because in his head the only reason why someone might want to play in real time is because he wants non-stop action.

My recommendation is that VD should just stop talking about RTwP. He doesn't understand it (which is why he thinks this game's combat is great) or its appeal anymore than I understand the appeal of football simulators.

:0/5::0/5:

In typical codex fashion I only read a couple of sentences from the review then came here to rage.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
10,212
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Pretty good review. I think it spends a bit too much time talking about other games, but I suppose if the author didn't play past the first act it can't be helped. Still he/they nail it most of the time.

(Could people please stop writing PoE reviews now? Pretty please?)
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
100,044
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
This review is alright but doesnt contain the details or depth of analysis of yours, PJ. I sincerely hope you and Felipepe finish it up.

We can save that for the post-expansion packs Ultimate Final Review, which is when the system will be truly complete anyway.

My main concern ATM is that nobody has given Obsidian the message that they're onto something with PotD, as felipepepe discovered, and that the game needs to be more like that.

Reviews as simple expression of opinion are nice, but if you look at the bigger picture, where the Codex has an opportunity to make a real impact with its reviews is when it functions as a kind of semi-professional crowdsourced player feedback, advising game developers in detail on what they need to change for the sequels to their games.

This review is good for what it is, but it doesn't really do that.
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
7,817
My main concern ATM is that nobody has given Obsidian the message that they're onto something with PotD, as felipepepe discovered, and that the game needs to be more like that.

You could still post the PJ/FP review to the front page.
 

Kos_Koa

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
315
I think we need 7 more reviews to properly address this game.

But in seriousness I liked the review, it pretty much mirrored my feelings to the letter. I do hope that "Pillars of Eternity might very well be the solid foundation upon which Obsidian Entertainment will one day build their Magnum Opus", because the game definitely teases at all the right spots, it just doesn't have the strength to follow through.
 

Cholo

Arcane
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
766
Location
Val Verde
The review felt rushed, but I suppose that's understandable considering Vince was writing about an incomplete experience. I did appreciate the curtness of it all, which which was evidently not hindered by Grunker. On the whole it was not as good a troll article as Roxor's, although I did enjoy Vince's blunt dismissal of the genre (could RTwP be called a genre?). At least now we finally have our Official RPGCodex review which was promised, and can be linked to on the Steam page. The long night is finally over. :salute:

Perhaps this would make a good blurb for Steam:
like a retarded baby it has no idea that its head-wound is leaking pus
 

crawlkill

Kill all boxed game owners. Kill! Kill!
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
674
both man and ghost articulate the disappointments well and with restraint
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,045
A turn is a pause.
:hmmm:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=21

And I pause for a while by a country stile - Real Time with Pause

Strengths - The addition of pausing to a RT combat system greatly reduces the reliance on any kind of manual dexterity on the players' behalf, and also is less limited by a need to streamline the HMI. Poor design is also more forgivable, due to the simultaneous actions allowing players to get through encounters that offer no challenge at a faster rate, as long as there aren't enforced round times.

Weaknesses - The very philosophy of adding a pause to a RT system is akin to whittling away the corners of a square peg so it fits in a round hole. It addresses the problem of difficulty interfacing in RT, but doesn't get to the root of the problem. In taking away a reliance on player dexterity, a challenge that is vital to RT systems is now gone. In order to effectively compensate for this, there needs to be a challenge in the tactical play, however, that too is compromised by the inability to effectively utilise terrain and cover, or attack while moving, which greatly limits many actions that would commonly take place within a real world tactical simulation. Also the nature of pausing to issue orders and then watching those orders get carried out seems entirely too passive, while on the flipside of the coin, you are constantly pausing which serves to eliminate most of the advantages of a RT system. So basically, taking a real-time system and adding pause comes with all the weaknesses of RT systems, few of the strengths, and is far outweighed by both TB and purely RT systems.

Myths -

"RT with pause has just as much underlying complexity as TB" - Sure, if both systems are exceedingly simple. TB permits the integration of many more features, and has less limiting factors. While RT systems with or without pause have many limitations imposed by their very nature, TB is limited only by the ability to maintain player interest.

"RT with pause is better because the player has control of it's pacing" - The player does get to control the pace of the combat, however the players ability to effectively judge and weigh up their own actions against those of their opponent is no longer carefully measured. If a similar system were introduced to the another essential RPG element that relies on discrete progression, ie levelling, the whole game would be worse off for it. If the player were able to develop their character at any time, without any measurement of level, the character system would seem diluted, and the reward/achievement of reaching the next level has gone by the wayside. There's no reason to view combat any differently. Surviving to the next turn can be an achievement in a difficult encounter, and most players derive a great deal of satisfaction from the knowledge that that all important next step of the way has been taken.
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
20,885
Location
Привислинский край
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Ban everyone who does not submit his own Pillars of Eternity review by the end of the week - that would've been a good codexian solution.

Heard Heresy and run typed here as fast as I could:

Setting: Banal its almost as bland as Cyrrodil in Oblibion, its also hooray Kwan patriotic too.
Mechanics: Shit for being RTWP and over balanced clone of the worst idiot DND edition.
As Whole: Boring for combination of previous points, copy pasted trash mobs, mediocre writing except two castrated companions done by our Spiritual Liege MCA and quests written by Leftard men children (Big Bro-fist for Komrade VD).

Final Score 8/10 (Cause absolute shit like DAI gots 10/10 GOTY) 6/10 otherwise would not pirate again and worst Big Kickstarter Kommissar played so far. Good Review except last sentence btw.
 

Maelflux

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
307
Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
Great review. It manages to balance finely between the 2 others. (Sawyer would have been proud of this balance!)
 

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,572
Location
Poland
You know that something is wrong with PoE when PoE reviews and discussions about reviews are more entertaining than the game itself.
 

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