RPG gameplay elements/habits you don't understand

[V_K]

I prefer show-don't-tell approach of worldbuilding. Good level design, implicatures in dialogues, environmental storytelling - things like these.

Looking for notes and books scattered through the gameworld and reading the long descriptions of items and codex entries ain't activities which I can describe as fun.

Then we're not in that much of a disagreement. Lore, of course, should underscore gameplay, if its another text for the sake of text, then it's almost as bad as having an overwritten plot (almost - because it's easier to ignore than an overwritten plot). But things like e.g. the different magic systems in Ultima 8 or the various level elements in Geneforge (mines, minds, living tools) do benefit being rooted in explicit lore. And things like "clue hunt" plots in Ultima or Magic Candle work quite well, I think, in that lore doubles as clues for puzzles and quests.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

I prefer show-don't-tell approach of worldbuilding. Good level design, implicatures in dialogues, environmental storytelling - things like these.

Looking for notes and books scattered through the gameworld and reading the long descriptions of items and codex entries ain't activities which I can describe as fun.

Then we're not in that much of a disagreement. Lore, of course, should underscore gameplay, if its another text for the sake of text, then it's almost as bad as having an overwritten plot (almost - because it's easier to ignore than an overwritten plot). But things like e.g. the different magic systems in Ultima 8 or the various level elements in Geneforge (mines, minds, living tools) do benefit being rooted in explicit lore. And things like "clue hunt" plots in Ultima or Magic Candle work quite well, I think, in that lore doubles as clues for puzzles and quests.

We're obviously not in that much of a disagreement. I've said earlier that I prefer a good plot and dialogues to lore, not an overwritten plot and dialogues. By term 'lore' I refer not to any background info, but specifically to the kind of lore that is not trully incorporated in a game: a lot of books, notes, flavour text and/or codex entries. And it's not like I am completely against these things. But I don't understand them, I don't think that they really add much to the game and believe that resources spent on writing them could have been used for more important writing-related things.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I don't understand the point of having multiple characters when they're all just controlled by you. Why not just have one character instead?

 

[DraQ]

I don't understand the point of having multiple characters when they're all just controlled by you. Why not just have one character instead?

Squad based tactics is a valid gameplay focus.

 

[Geckabor]

Are there any features/habits in RPGs that you don't understand the appeal of?

When side-quests still give you 300 gold as a reward at a point where every trash mob I face gives me 500.

 

[Lilura]

Hiking sims like Morrowind. Anyone who loves derping around in that "game", and reading its shitty lore, is an idiot.

 

[Semiurge]

and I don't understand the appeal of having an AI companion follow you around in a 3D action RPG with a focus on exploration.

Because exploring with friends is more fun

Skyrim Let's Play: Exploring with Cicero

 

[sser]

The concept of world ending plots vs. characters behaving as though nothing is going on, notably merchants. It rarely springs up but when it does it's as amusing as it is dumb. For example, in Dragon Age you had the swarm of ghouls or orcs or whatever they were (it's been years) coming up destroying the whole continent. And toward the end you're going to face down some death dragon whatever that can kill everyone. And yet the merchant literally right outside the final battle is like yeah that'll be $4.50 for the potion, $12.50 for the quiver...

 

[Lurker47]

>Isometric game.
>The walls don't turn transparent to help you see inside.

 

[Cyberarmy]

but when an RPG just tacks it on it fucking sucks.

Best crafting in RPGs are Gothics and BG2 imho. No need to grind, you always get something useful out of it and it had a bit of story elements.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

There are a few things players do (and developers implement) that I don't get.

Recently saw some youtube vids on Fallout games and the guy who talked about them played New Vegas and Fallout 4 with companions following him everywhere. And I just don't get it. Having followers in first person RPGs is lame as fuck, all they do is cramp your style, especially in something as clunky as Bethesda's Fallouts where they only get in your way when you wanna shoot at the enemy.

I don't get the appeal of having companions in first or third person action RPGs, yet devs keep implementing them and players apparently like it. New Vegas, Skyrim, Fallout 4 all have companions. Elex has companions. Chances are, if you play a modern action RPG there are companions you can recruit to follow you around.

Everyone hates escort quests, but companions in those kinds of games are cool? How? It feels like having a constant escort quest character tagging along with you. You have to babysit your companions to make sure they don't suicide themselves and it just makes the game more stressful and annoying. There are zero gameplay benefits to having an uncontrollable AI companion tag along with you in an action RPG. You can't coordinate your attacks with your companion in most of these games, so it's not like you can involve them in tactical approaches. Once the enemy spots you, your companion's AI will just derp out and go on a frontal attack, and if you don't want him/her to die you have to also run forward and do your best to prevent the enemies from killing the retard.

I'll never understand the appeal of companions in action RPGs.

Are there any features/habits in RPGs that you don't understand the appeal of?

one solution is don't play gay ass first person action games like that. So far this method has been a 100% fool proof method for me.

 

[octavius]

Best crafting in RPGs are Gothics and BG2 imho. No need to grind, you always get something useful out of it and it had a bit of story elements.

Best crafting in CRPGs is Evil Islands. Much better than BG2, at least.

 

[Wunderbar]

Collecting a certain unique item like a "rusty ancient blade" and going through a quest of restoring it to its former glory is just a sidequest as far as i'm concerned.
Crafting must be a whole game system to be called crafting.

 

[Lilura]

ToEE and SoZ have best crafting.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I don't understand the point of having multiple characters when they're all just controlled by you. Why not just have one character instead?

In Dungeons & Dragons, each player controls a single character, but it is expected that multiple players will participate and form a considerable party of player-characters. Since D&D stemmed from miniatures wargaming, the original expectations for party size, and therefore the number of PCs, was quite high, with 6 being a typical minimum party size of adventure modules into the early 80s. CRPGs had three possibilities for adapting the concept of players and PCs to the medium of a single-player game on a microcomputer (all of which substituted the computer for the Dungeon Master):

• Treat the multi-character party as fundamental and grant the single player control over all party members.
• Treat the player-character as fundamental and eliminate the party, with the player controlling the one remaining PC.
• Preserve both the single character per player element and the party of PCs element, by giving the player control over a single PC but having other party members under the control of the computer as a substitute for other players.

The first option is preferable for nearly any turn-based combat system, since option two reduces the possible complexity of combat via the reduction of the party to a single character (e.g. Age of Decadence versus Dungeon Rats) and option three removes decision-making from the player and grants it to an always-frustrating computer AI (e.g. Fallout). Unsurprisingly, early CRPGs on microcomputers overwhelmingly adopted turn-based combat with a party of PCs under the player's control, as the best means of emulating D&D. As time passed, some CRPG subgenres adopted real-time combat systems from a desire not to separate combat from real-time exploration, to the detriment of the former and the benefit of the latter. Dungeon Master-likes were able to retain a party (of limited size) under the player's control, but this became increasingly infrequent in the 90s with the move into 3D graphics and later became all-but-impossible in combat systems that were not only real-time but also action-based. Dragon's Dogma in 2012/2013/2016 was a breath of fresh air for action-based combat, since it restored a party (albeit limited to 4 members) with effective interactions between characters aided by relatively-competent AI, which was one factor moving the overall design more in the direction of being a proper RPG and less of an action game.

 

[Lilura]

The more the merrier. Squad-based tactics is the apex experience offered by the genre (which, as Zed said, is rooted in wargaming):

If you haven't marquee-selected a squad like that, and heard them call out in unison, you haven't lived.

RPGs should be based on the premise that many will die; it takes an army to win. That's why ToEE, IWD, IWD2, SoZ, Jagged Alliance 2 and Silent Storm are more monocled. Because they have party arbitration/deep companion pools.

 

[V_K]

The one and only kind of crafting I embrace is alchemy. Especially when it's done systemically like in Morrowind - with clear rules, lots of somewhat interchangeable reagents and freedom of experimentation. It both makes a lot more sense for the PC to do, unlike forging swords, and the systemic character solves the problem of having to search through the whole fucking forest in vain to find a single stick that the recipe calls for (DOS, I'm looking at you).
Item enchantment is also works quite well - it's straightforward, feels more "epic" and doesn't clutter loot containers with nails and steel bars.

 

[V_K]

The concept of world ending plots vs. characters behaving as though nothing is going on, notably merchants. It rarely springs up but when it does it's as amusing as it is dumb. For example, in Dragon Age you had the swarm of ghouls or orcs or whatever they were (it's been years) coming up destroying the whole continent. And toward the end you're going to face down some death dragon whatever that can kill everyone. And yet the merchant literally right outside the final battle is like yeah that'll be $4.50 for the potion, $12.50 for the quiver...

But it's one of the rare examples of RPGs having realistic NPC behaviors!

 

[Darth Canoli]

Collecting a certain unique item like a "rusty ancient blade" and going through a quest of restoring it to its former glory is just a sidequest as far as i'm concerned.
Crafting must be a whole game system to be called crafting.

But crafting systems are done so poorly we're better off quest-crafting like in wizardry 8.

One of the few exceptions being Arcanum, besides having you to rummage through garbage bins (every other cRPG does that anyways), the system is simple enough, yet very well designed, being tied to character progression with a lot of schematics and previous creations "upgradable" (sometimes, it's not so much as an upgrade).

Also, AoD/Dungeon Rats equipment crafting system is quite good, alchemy aside.

 

[Wunderbar]

Arcanum's and Underrail's crafting systems are the way to go, best crafting implementation i've seen.

 

[laclongquan]

I don't understand the point of having multiple characters when they're all just controlled by you. Why not just have one character instead?

Squad based tactics is a valid gameplay focus.

Case in point: with ragdoll physic engine where you can shoot bodies moving, you can send them flying by having multiple combatants shooting them up to the sky. Pure Awesome Factor!

 

[Darth Canoli]

Simple was the key, to stay polite, they're nothing alike except if you say Arcanum was the model and underrail's implementation was a critical failure.

 

[Lilura]

Case in point: with ragdoll physic engine where you can shoot bodies moving, you can send them flying by having multiple combatants shooting them up to the sky. Pure Awesome Factor!

It only takes one shot:

 

[Falksi]

Crafting is currently bollocks. Firstly it's outright fucking stupid in the context of playing a role (otherwise known as "roleplaying"). No soldier I know could make a gun, few soldiers of the past could craft a sword, their trades were fighting and that's what they'd spent years learning. Much like alchemists learn alchemy, thieves learn how to pinch etc. The suggestion that one of these is suddenly gonna go off on a year or two adventure & come back able to make top grade items, the likes of which take some tradesfolk 20-30 years to master, is just wank.

But in context of the games themselves, it just math-matizes too much and waters down all the special properties which items have. You pick up a wonder sword in one village and it seems special because it does stuff no or few other swords do. Even defined combos of attributes force you into choices - do I take the one enchanted with ice & lightening, or fire & lightening (looks to next mission).

Devs have totally forgot the art of roleplaying and what these items are for. They're not just there to help us get through the game & adventure, they are there to force us into making decisions and shaping our characters. Something which doesn't happen when it's your character shaping those things in the first place.

 

[V_K]

Much like alchemists learn alchemy [...] The suggestion that one of these is suddenly gonna go off on a year or two adventure & come back able to make top grade items, the likes of which take some tradesfolk 20-30 years to master, is just wank.

Well RPG alchemy doesn't really have anything to do with historical alchemy, it's just basic herbalism that doesn't require all that much skill and knowledge. And then Morrowind does a really good job of simulating you gaining that knowledge - you can ingest unfamiliar reagents to learn their basic effects (and risk getting poisoned in the process), your potions can have harmful side effects if you work with unfamiliar reagents etc.