RPGCodex lost it's prestige & I blame Witcher 3

[cvv]

Muh gameplay, the thread.

Videogames don't need gameplay

Ok lemme change that.

"Videogames don't need writing", the thread.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Muh gameplay, the thread.

Videogames don't need gameplay

Ok lemme change that.

"Videogames don't need writing", the thread.

Video games go brrr.

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

Ok lemme change that.

"Videogames don't need writing", the thread.

They don't, they'll still be videogames, story can indeed improve them (or worsen) but the first quality you should look for is gameplay.

 

[Nano]

What would you guys consider to be more of a video game - a visual novel with multiple choices and reactivity, or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kymzTlqi1SY

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

Disco

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[cvv]

What would you guys consider to be more of a video game - a visual novel with multiple choices and reactivity, or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kymzTlqi1SY

Technically anything with a direct player input, with interaction, is a videogame. An interactive movie like Heavy Rain IS a videogame.

But I'm not the one pushing extremes here. I don't like games like Detroit or Heavy Rain or the Telltale games. Never have. I like balance. That's why I don't play adventure games at all anymore (even tho in the 1990s I played mostly adventures) because I find RPGs - basically adventures with more gameplay - much more enjoyable.

RPGs where writing is a secondary concern for the devs (or none at all) are wasted opportunity for me. In the last month I played two RPGs that I really enjoyed gameplay-wise: Operencia and Bard's Tale 4. Mechanically very enjoyable games but the writing was bland and generic (BT4) or outright teenage fanfic level (Operencia). Why can't we have both? Wouldn't any RPG be even more fun with great mechanics AND engaging story, NPCs and quests?

Because clearly when the miracle happens and devs put an equal emphasis on writing AND on mechanics then you get phenomenal RPGs like Torment, Deus Ex, Dragonfall, Bloodlines or Kingdom Come that marry deep gameplay with fantastic stories and characters. Is that bad?

Videogames don't need writing? Really?

 

[Butter]

What would you guys consider to be more of a video game - a visual novel with multiple choices and reactivity, or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kymzTlqi1SY

Technically anything with direct player input, with interaction, is a videogame.

Microsoft Word is a video game.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

What would you guys consider to be more of a video game - a visual novel with multiple choices and reactivity, or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kymzTlqi1SY

Technically anything with direct player input, with interaction, is a videogame.

Microsoft Word is a video game.

 

[thesecret1]

I think this is just the usual effect of having a poll where you choose multiple entries. I will illustrate on a local story that actually happened: there is an annual contest in my country where the best singer or music band is voted on by people across the country. Every year, for literal decades, the competition had been absolutely dominated by a singer who hit peak popularity around 70's and 80's and had since been listened mostly by old people and nostalgics. At first, people thought that his elderly fancore was simply so numerous, but as decades passed, this seemed less and less likely. Then they thought that perhaps only the elderly take the time to actually vote in that cotest, but statistics proved that the age composition was actually fairly regular. Finally, there were even voices suspecting foul play on the part of the organizers. And so they, to prevent these accusations, went on to reveal just how the hell does he do it that he wins all the time – apparently, he was put as Nr.1 pick by very, very few people. But the contest asked to also fill in second best and third best singer/band. Most people apparently only had one or two bands they actually cared for, and wondered what to fill in on the second or third place – enormous numbers of people put this singer there, since it's basically impossible to not know him given his popularity in decades past, and most people figured "well, at least he can sing, I guess, even though I hate his music". While points gained for second or third place were lower than for first, he amassed so many of them, that he always won.

I suspect this is what may have happened with Witcher 3 – it is a game that EVERYONE knows, like it or not, and while few here would praise it as being a great game, many consider it decent enough.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

What would you guys consider to be more of a video game - a visual novel with multiple choices and reactivity, or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kymzTlqi1SY

Racer car driver avoiding donkeys? That theming gives it more story than one of the best most pure video game series around.

 

[Semiurge]

Secrets of popularity tend to be novelty and eye candy, and Witcher 3 still has both, at least compared to Gothic.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Decline is signified by the trend in forum discussion shifting from discussion of games to discussion of why other people are wrong to like games.

 

[Ismaul]

The biggest inspiration for The Witcher 3 is Gothic. Despite falling short of its gameplay.

To all those fakenewsing me. Gothic has been a major inspiration for Witcher 1-3. They always go back to it to get inspiration for the next Witcher installment. I'm not saying The Witcher is better than Gothic, FFS. Gothic 1 is my #1 game ever. But you can see Gothic's DNA in every Witcher game. And no I'm not a pole or a germ.

In general: the gruff hero, the idea of killing monsters to get their parts to craft stuff with, the gloomy atmosphere (G1 - TW1), the ambiant NPC dialogues, magic as something supplemental to melee (in G1 anyways), grounded magical setting, weapons on the back (remember Morrowind had none of that back then), dangerous natural wildlife and towns (in TW1 anyways), the plants to pickup even down to the aesthetic, the realistic take on armor look, etc.

The Witcher 1: Combat moves changing as you level up a stance is a direct inspiration. Before release they had videos highlighting that feature and citing Gothic as inspiration.

The Witcher 2: Again the combat, but this time the collision-based aspect. Also the faction choice that determines a huge part of the game.

The Witcher 3: The open world mechanics, even if dumbed down.

• NPC "idle" animations: guys driving nails in their huts, the fucking blacksmith anim is exactly the same, etc.
  
• Criminal system, even if dumbed down: in certain areas, guards come and knock you down and grab some of your money if you get caught stealing.
  
• Wildlife hunting other wildlife
  
• Traveling merchants
• Armor as DR (I don't remember if it was the same in previous Witchers)

I'm missing a bunch of shit obviously, my memory sucks. But I can't help but see a lot of Gothic in The Witcher, even if what is taken from Gothic is almost always done worse in The Witcher.


It's not just me, the devs admit it's a huge influence. They've been talking about it since before TW1 was released. I don't have old sources but a simple search turns a bunch of stuff up:

You've got that GameBanshee interview of The Witcher 1, where they say: "We were greatly influenced by the Gothic series, especially the feeling of a living world, freedom of choice and the realistic fantasy theme."

There's a Gameinformer video interview with TW3 designers where they say they were inspired by Gothic for monster "scaling" at 2:45 (they failed at it but still).

I don't speak potato, but there's a whole documentary on how Gothic inspired TW.

There's more but I have stuff to do.

 

[Ismaul]

It is rich complaining about The Witcher 3 coming from Gothic when Gothic main draw was story, worldbuilding and characters while stuff like progression systems and combat was completely secondary to it.

False. Gothic is still the best RPG melee combat I've seen.

Progression systems, training with masters, combat moves improving with skill, hard difficulty, having to use wits because combat is quite hard, timing your blocks, etc. This is what I look for man. And the storyfaggy shit. But Gothic isn't a storyfag game, it's a living-world simulation RPG.

 

[Cat Dude]

Witcher 3 is Final Fantasy 7 of current gen. It is the best casual rpg of current gen.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Gothic is a game where you can be one of the rice lord's slaves, a swamp weed dealer, among other things. What can you be in The Witcher 3?

 

[HeyCheckOutHowHardICanPee]

What can you be in The Witcher 3?

Geralt

 

[BarbequeMasta]

This thread just made me want to replay Gothic for the first time in 10 years, is there any list of recommanded mods?

 

[Drowed]

 

[RRRrrr]

I have a confession-I have found a lot of the top 40 RPGs on Codex's more enjoyable than a lot of those on the top 10 list, except for Bloodlines which might be my all-time favorite game.

Also, The Witcher 3 is probably the best AAA RPG. And even though I would have preferred less markers and better itemization, it was superb in practically every way.



Hating on The Witcher 3 is some edgy incel stuff.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

My favorite AAA RPG is likely the first Dark Souls(Is it a AAA game btw?) unless am blanking on a really great one, and for one reason only, it's level design. I dunno why but that short cut porn is too satisfying for my brain.

 

[Bigg Boss]

According to Roqua you should blame Pokemon.

 

[RRRrrr]

Gothic is a game where you can be one of the rice lord's slaves, a swamp weed dealer, among other things. What can you be in The Witcher 3?

That's a bit like asking what you can be in Bloodlines. Completely nonsensical question.

 

[RRRrrr]

By the way, to me the RPG Codex declined when discussions about Mass Effect were moved from General Gaming where they belong to the RPG section.