Vapourware RPGs that can legitimately be called masterpieces

[Sykar]

"G3 is trash because has a awful melee combat" ~ A bethestard that loves to swing his axe 65 times to kill a scaled up poor thief in daedric armor on Oblivion and can't criticize G3 archery or mage gameplay nor name one third person ARPG from mid 00s with good melee combat.

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The unique Japanese Franchise that i would consider a masterpiece is the Demon/Dark Souls series. I would't consider Dragon's Dogma a masterpiece, due the awful stat gain, simplistic stat mechanics, limit on 3 skills for my magick archer and ludicrous level of gear dependency BUT DD is a amazing game. And Demon/Dark Souls are a masterpiece despite being RPG's made with consoles in mind and from Japan. Lets be real, 99% of console RPG's are ultra dumbed down and 99,9% of the jRPG's are androgynous teenager with oversized swords saving the world.

For mmos, i would classify only Ultima Online as a masterpiece.

You fucking retard, I know that melee is trash in Daggerfall and Morrowind. So what? That is completely and utterly irrelevant considering that G1 and G2 had decent/good melee combat, far superior to the complete and utter garbage we got in G3 where one starter weapon and one broken move makes melee a complete and utter broken joke. Oh and learn what a fucking Bethestard is you living afterbirth.

 

[Cryomancer]

You fucking retard, I know that melee is trash in Daggerfall and Morrowind. So what? That is completely and utterly irrelevant considering that G1 and G2 had decent/good melee combat, far superior to the complete and utter garbage we got in G3 where one starter weapon and one broken move makes melee a complete and utter broken joke. Oh and learn what a fucking Bethestard is you living afterbirth.

Yep. Morrowind and Daggerfall has awful melee combat but are masterpieces. Now a game not made by bethesda with poor melee combat? It is automatically trash. Only Bethesda can do that. Praise Tod Howard but i an not bethestard. And if you disagree with me, you are a retard

 

[Sykar]

You fucking retard, I know that melee is trash in Daggerfall and Morrowind. So what? That is completely and utterly irrelevant considering that G1 and G2 had decent/good melee combat, far superior to the complete and utter garbage we got in G3 where one starter weapon and one broken move makes melee a complete and utter broken joke. Oh and learn what a fucking Bethestard is you living afterbirth.

Yep. Morrowind and Daggerfall has awful melee combat but are masterpieces. Now a game not made by bethesda with poor melee combat? It is automatically trash. Only Bethesda can do that. Praise Tod Howard but i an not bethestard. And if you disagree with me, you are a retard

You dumbfuck, I never called them master pieces but unlike G3 they had redeemable features, like a story that did not insult your intelligence, character creation with wide range of builds, an intricate magic, alchemy and enchanting system and a non-retarded faction system. Morrowind and Daggerfall are classic "whole greater than the sum of its part" examples. G3 is almost entirely irredeemable shit, even with community patch. Of course this is in large parts because the game is utterly unfinished. Just so we are clear, I consider G1 and G2 to be better than Daggerfall and Morrowind. Also since your prokaryotes-sized brain is too stupid to comprehend what a Bethestard is, a Bethestard defens Bethshit against all reasonable criticism, thinks Toddy boy said nothing but the truth and of course the big one, thinks that Oblivishit, Failderp 3 and Failtard 4 are great games. Now feel yourself educated you vacuous dipshit.

 

[Molina]

Masterpiece, it's not a perfect thing. It's the culmination of a life ot something. And in this case, I can say that Baldur's Gate 2, is the culmination of games in the isometrics era. And again, I'm looking forward to Owlcat's next game to be sure, because Pathfinder is on the edge of taking first place.
Similarly, Tim Cain and Boyarsky's masterpiece is Arcanum.
In terms of the simulation game, I think Kenshi gets the prize.
In terms of immersion, Morrowind.
In terms of story and writing... Disco Elysium.

 

[Tito Anic]

I am idiot

 

[Thunar]

There's only one masterpiece, the rest are flawed gems and half rpgs (Deus Ex, Thief, SysShock,...) Bow down to your Dark Sun Shattered Lands overlords.
It's got everything you'd ever want, an immersive setting, multiple ways to resolve quests, engaging npc dialogue, amazing DnD combat, genius encounter design. It puts fallout and baldur's gate to shame, both of these games only partially succeed where Dark Sun got the balance right. It's nearly a 30 year old game whose UI is just as intuitive as anything being released today. Too bad we had to wait so long for KoTC to come as a worthy successor.

 

[Cryomancer]

Some people don't understand how classes works on Gothic games(G1/G2/G3), you don't click in a meny and choose "i wanna be a Paladin" or "i wanna be a water mage", you start as a nobody, then go explore the world, talk to people and try be accepted as one member. Like or dsilike is personal taste. That said, magic is also well made in gothic. Each "faction" sens the magic on a different way. See how Swamp Camp sees it as a "awakening" and spiritualism, how fire mages has a "cleric flavor" and water mages sees as a part of nature and the greatest knowledge that Adanos bestowed to the humanity and has a "duird" flavor. Necromancers in other hands are close to warlocks that bargain servitude in exchange for dark magic knowledge and Xardas decided to use the dark magic against the influence of the Dark God.

All gothic games are masterpieces in worldbuilding

And is not only magic. Animals ACT like animals. I remember when i used the carnivorous nature of wolves to separate a pack and be able to kill then on G1, to reach the swamp camp...

reviews

 

[Lilura]

There's only one masterpiece, the rest are flawed gems and half rpgs (Deus Ex, Thief, SysShock,...) Bow down to your Dark Sun Shattered Lands overlords.
It's got everything you'd ever want, an immersive setting, multiple ways to resolve quests, engaging npc dialogue, amazing DnD combat, genius encounter design. It puts fallout and baldur's gate to shame, both of these games only partially succeed where Dark Sun got the balance right. It's nearly a 30 year old game whose UI is just as intuitive as anything being released today. Too bad we had to wait so long for KoTC to come as a worthy successor.

Meh, Dark Sun fanboys and settingfags are such 'tards.

"I like Dark Sun." *20 Dark Sun posers brofist this*

Both Baldur's Gate and Fallout shit on Dark Sun. And ToEE, Jagged Alliance 2 and Silent Storm shit on KotC.

At any rate, into the iggy bin you go.

 

[fantadomat]

into the iggy bin you go.

There are still people left outside of it?!

 

[Thunar]

Baldur's gate is a hack and slash masquerading as an rpg, there's only one tactic that works and it's repeated ad nauseum, I'm beginning to think that people who praise that game have never played DnD.
Fallout's combat is so terrible, I'd rather mess around with the pool of radiance UI any day of the week, the rest of what makes that game good is directly lifted from Dark Sun, the only unique thing to it is Avellone's MadMax fanfiction.
Jagged Alliance goes into the half rpg category among the Thiefs and the VtMBs.

 

[Catacombs]

Baldur's gate is a hack and slash masquerading as an rpg, there's only one tactic that works and it's repeated ad nauseum, I'm beginning to think that people who praise that game have never played DnD.

lmao wut?

 

[Thunar]

Baldur's gate is a hack and slash masquerading as an rpg, there's only one tactic that works and it's repeated ad nauseum, I'm beginning to think that people who praise that game have never played DnD.

lmao wut?

There's no positioning that has any relevance apart from your main dude getting out of the fight when he's low on health to avoid game over. AOO are non existent. There's no such thing as cover.
The only tactic is to hold the enemy in place and bash him very hard, how you do that depends on your level, which only gives the illusion of variety, choice and play-style. Half of the utility spells are completely useless and only exist because the license said do.
You can rest anywhere, this takes away the main point of DnD, especially its early editions, it's a game whose main challenge comes from managing resources, not web + fireball, rest and repeat. I won't even go into the fetch quest/empty forest maps because everyone knows that.
It's also a very easy game once you understand how rtwp fucks with its DnD fundamentals. It's like playing 5e where everyone has a bajillion bonus actions and gets three attacks per turn. It's diablo with a party and some familiar spells.
At the end of the day, it's an enjoyable mindless grind-fest with a fun story in the background and some humor. When you consider that games before it have done it much better, it's very hard to see why people praise it as a masterpiece.

 

[Jason Liang]

This is why its so pathetic that Lilura wastes all that time writing about BG and NWN combat.

 

[samuraigaiden]

I'm playing Betrayal at Krondor right now. It's really fucking good.

Gothic is as much a masterpiece as an open-world action RPG can be.

 

[Cryomancer]

ToEE is also the masterpiece, best D&D adaptations and best turn based ever

 

[Buster]

Betrayal at Krondor. It may be the only game, to have its story adapted, by the original author of the setting, to a full-length novel with only minor changes.

 

[Jason Liang]

Betrayal at Krondor. It may be the only game, to have its story adapted, by the original author of the setting, to a full-length novel with only minor changes.

uh. Dragonlance?

 

[Grotesque]

Carmageddon is a masterpiece

 

[Darth Canoli]

Both Baldur's Gate and Fallout shit on Dark Sun. And ToEE, Jagged Alliance 2 and Silent Storm shit on KotC.

Baldur's Gate is garbage, it's so popular because :

• People are retards
• It was released right when technology took a leap forward
• Romances
• Beginning of "modern" cRPG

Dark Sun is 10 times the game BG is, would they have waited 5 years to release it, it would be the incontestable reference for everyone.
Still, Dark sun is to BG what Hitchcock movies are to Black Mirror/Electric Dreams/New Twilight Zone.

About KotC, it's an indie game, it shows particularly on the world map or the lack of side-quests and classes/races.
But Pierre Begue focused on a couple of features and did the best he could, if he had a skilled team and a million, he would deliver the best cRPG of the next 50 years.

Still, the best he could with limited funds is amazing already, i don't see how we could compare it to silent storm and JA2 but he's not far behind ToEE with Temple+ and he's probably on the same level than vanilla ToEE if not better.

Spoiler

I like Dark Sun. *20 Dark Sun posers brofist this*

 

[Buster]

uh. Dragonlance?

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but isn't that the other way around, where the original authors also made the game?

 

[Valky]

As we can all agree ToEE is one of few masterpieces that exist, why aren't there more dedicated codexers getting into modding it? As in, new adventure modules like Co8 and KotB introduced. The ruleset is rock solid and mostly fully implemented, but I would murder for new modules to play a party through. New locales, quests, enemies, encounters..

 

[marek]

Planescape:Torment
Vampire:Bloodlines
Knights of the Old Republic 2
Neverwinter Nigths 2: Mask of the Betrayer
Fallout 2
Deus Ex (1)
Fallout: New Vegas
Dragon Age: Origins
Game of Thrones (not Telltale)
Age of Decadence
Witcher Series

 

[Lilura]

Dark Sun is 10 times the game BG is

Iggy bin.

Planescape:Torment
Knights of the Old Republic 2
Fallout: New Vegas
Dragon Age: Origins
Game of Thrones (not Telltale)
Witcher Series

Iggy bin.

 

[RNGsus]

Only turn-based rpg can be masterpieces, since rtwp doesn't qualify as a game.

 

[marek]

Iggy bin.

Why ask when you don't want replies? Anyway, Planescape:Torment is so far above other games including the (good to great) games on your list, hard to take you serious if you *really* think its a "major mess" and don't just want to stir controversy...