Vapourware RPGs that can legitimately be called masterpieces

[ERYFKRAD]

may of

excellent writing

The defense rests its case, Your Honour.

 

[PapaPetro]

may of

excellent writing

The defense rests its case, Your Honour.

I neber claim'd I wuz such.

 

[Ryan muller]

Closest thing would be Kotor 1

Much more than serious

Kotor 1 is hated on the codex because its really cool to hate on anything mainstream such as this game

Reality is: its much better than the edgy simulator called Kotor 2 and probably the best thing bioware ever made

 

[Butter]

Kotor 1 is definitely better than 2, but it's at most a 6/10 game. Bioware have never produced a masterpiece; the BG games might have qualified if they used turn-based combat.

 

[Dadd]

This post caused me to create this topic. In that topic, people were saying that third-rate RPGs were "perfect", which is ridiculous. I don't even think Jagged Alliance 2 is perfect.

Masterpiece: A work of outstanding skill, mastery or workmanship.

Note how it says "a work". In other words, it isn't enough for an RPG to have great this or great that, but fail elsewhere. When taken as a whole, the RPG must equate to a masterpiece. Thus, Troika games are out despite my undying love for them.

There are not many masterpieces. Off-hand, and in no particular order:

- Fallout (PC)
- Deus Ex (PC)
- Jagged Alliance 2 (PC)
- Warband (PC)
- Diablo (PC)
- Darklands (PC)
- Wasteland (C=64)
- Captive (Amiga)
- Hired Guns (Amiga)
- Dungeon Master (Atari ST)

I can call any of these masterpieces with a straight face. There are others, of course, but that's what I can think of, off-hand.

So what, to your mind, are examples of genre masterpieces?

Amazing, not a single retarded rating.

 

[Ryan muller]

Kotor 1 is definitely better than 2, but it's at most a 6/10 game. Bioware have never produced a masterpiece; the BG games might have qualified if they used turn-based combat.

BG's writing is mostly mediocre and its a miracle it even manages to have good encounter design with such a crappy dungeon design and poor pathfinding

Everytime i think about any dungeon that isnt durlag tower my mind starts to melt and i recall how extremely subpar the game was

Not to mention how CnC is almost non existent since almost everytime i get to choose anything its mostly worthless

"Ah are you the son of gorion?"

>Yes (fight)
>No (fight)
>Maybe (fight)
>For sure no (fight)

Reputation only changes rewards and prices, theres barely anything going for the characters with the most generic psrty banther out of any bioware game ever,etc...

Bg2 is a much better game and still highly inferior to Kotor which improved on pretty much everything

Including the fact even tho you could get strong, this was possible with any class by building it correctly and the game never felt really broken in this regard, where as in BG you only need rangers in your party and the balance goes to shit. Poison arrows in particular, made the game a no brainer, summons either which was pretty bad altought gladly not to the same degree as Arcanum (which is not saying much, arcanum had the worst balancement out of every rpg ive ever played)

Fallout 1 and 2 in general were better than Both BG games and MUCH better than arcanum and even then they still dont really achieve the level of Kotor due to some areas that were lacking (economy and itemization in general, encounter designs and A.I for the enemies, party banther, etc...)

 

[Butter]

Kotor 1 is definitely better than 2, but it's at most a 6/10 game. Bioware have never produced a masterpiece; the BG games might have qualified if they used turn-based combat.

BG's writing is mostly mediocre and its a miracle it even manages to have good encounter design with such a crappy dungeon design and poor pathfinding

Everytime i think about any dungeon that isnt durlag tower my mind starts to melt and i recall how extremely subpar the game was

Not to mention how CnC is almost non existent since almost everytime i get to choose anything its mostly worthless

"Ah are you the son of gorion?"

>Yes (fight)
>No (fight)
>Maybe (fight)
>For sure no (fight)

Reputation only changes rewards and prices, theres barely anything going for the characters with the most generic psrty banther out of any bioware game ever,etc...

Bg2 is a much better game and still highly inferior to Kotor which improved on pretty much everything

Including the fact even tho you could get strong, this was possible with any class by building it correctly and the game never felt really broken in this regard, where as in BG you only need rangers in your party and the balance goes to shit. Poison arrows in particular, made the game a no brainer, summons either which was pretty bad altought gladly not to the same degree as Arcanum (which is not saying much, arcanum had the worst balancement out of every rpg ive ever played)

Fallout 1 and 2 in general were better than Both BG games and MUCH better than arcanum and even then they still dont really achieve the level of Kotor due to some areas that were lacking (economy and itemization in general, encounter designs and A.I for the enemies, party banther, etc...)

Yeah all of these games have issues. In Kotor you can auto-attack through the entire game, maybe pop a healing potion (that you never come close to running out of) once in a while. I would rather have BG2's imbalanced classes + semi-interesting combat encounters and mechanics. Kotor doesn't even let you micro your party properly because it's a console game designed for plebs.

 

[Ryan muller]

Kotor 1 is definitely better than 2, but it's at most a 6/10 game. Bioware have never produced a masterpiece; the BG games might have qualified if they used turn-based combat.

BG's writing is mostly mediocre and its a miracle it even manages to have good encounter design with such a crappy dungeon design and poor pathfinding

Everytime i think about any dungeon that isnt durlag tower my mind starts to melt and i recall how extremely subpar the game was

Not to mention how CnC is almost non existent since almost everytime i get to choose anything its mostly worthless

"Ah are you the son of gorion?"

>Yes (fight)
>No (fight)
>Maybe (fight)
>For sure no (fight)

Reputation only changes rewards and prices, theres barely anything going for the characters with the most generic psrty banther out of any bioware game ever,etc...

Bg2 is a much better game and still highly inferior to Kotor which improved on pretty much everything

Including the fact even tho you could get strong, this was possible with any class by building it correctly and the game never felt really broken in this regard, where as in BG you only need rangers in your party and the balance goes to shit. Poison arrows in particular, made the game a no brainer, summons either which was pretty bad altought gladly not to the same degree as Arcanum (which is not saying much, arcanum had the worst balancement out of every rpg ive ever played)

Fallout 1 and 2 in general were better than Both BG games and MUCH better than arcanum and even then they still dont really achieve the level of Kotor due to some areas that were lacking (economy and itemization in general, encounter designs and A.I for the enemies, party banther, etc...)

Yeah all of these games have issues. In Kotor you can auto-attack through the entire game, maybe pop a healing potion (that you never come close to running out of) once in a while. I would rather have BG2's imbalanced classes + semi-interesting combat encounters and mechanics. Kotor doesn't even let you micro your party properly because it's a console game designed for plebs.

Ok, send me a playtrought auto attacking the whole game.

 

[Ryan muller]

i will answer why nobody is going to show this challenge run for me.

>because this is not possible.

Bioware was always good in their encounter design and they make sure to add enemies with different resistances, using force fields, capable of petrifying, etc.. so regardless of how do you think the game is easy or not, you HAVE to use your abilities, skills, weapons and items in a thoughtful way to suceed.

while yes, Kotor 1 is easier than BG, its combat encounter and system is well made and regardless of being easier, what matters is Consistency which this game has all the way throught.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

will answer why nobody is going to show this challenge run for me

Lmao imagine thinking someone will boot up a dumbass old game just to prove a point to you.

 

[Ryan muller]

will answer why nobody is going to show this challenge run for me

Lmao imagine thinking someone will boot up a dumbass old game just to prove a point to you.

Nobody needs to "boot up", youtube is there for you, if theres a possible challenge in a game, specially one as popular as this one, somebody would ve tried.

Theres literally a series sneaking the entire game happening right now and NOTHING about auto attacking


why?
because its impossible. next question

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Theres literally a series sneaking the entire game happening right now and NOTHING about auto attacking


why?
because its impossible

Impossible means there's something out there who'll do it.
The real reason is that it's not a challenge.

 

[Desiderius]

Kotor 1 is definitely better than 2, but it's at most a 6/10 game. Bioware have never produced a masterpiece; the BG games might have qualified if they used turn-based combat.

BG's writing is mostly mediocre and its a miracle it even manages to have good encounter design with such a crappy dungeon design and poor pathfinding

Everytime i think about any dungeon that isnt durlag tower my mind starts to melt and i recall how extremely subpar the game was

Not to mention how CnC is almost non existent since almost everytime i get to choose anything its mostly worthless

"Ah are you the son of gorion?"

>Yes (fight)
>No (fight)
>Maybe (fight)
>For sure no (fight)

Reputation only changes rewards and prices, theres barely anything going for the characters with the most generic psrty banther out of any bioware game ever,etc...

Bg2 is a much better game and still highly inferior to Kotor which improved on pretty much everything

Including the fact even tho you could get strong, this was possible with any class by building it correctly and the game never felt really broken in this regard, where as in BG you only need rangers in your party and the balance goes to shit. Poison arrows in particular, made the game a no brainer, summons either which was pretty bad altought gladly not to the same degree as Arcanum (which is not saying much, arcanum had the worst balancement out of every rpg ive ever played)

Fallout 1 and 2 in general were better than Both BG games and MUCH better than arcanum and even then they still dont really achieve the level of Kotor due to some areas that were lacking (economy and itemization in general, encounter designs and A.I for the enemies, party banther, etc...)

The crickets outside Candlekeep....

Guess you had to be there. Like the first kish of the coins in Diablo. There's something about making memories that stick with you.

 

[Skinwalker]

Kotor 1 is hated on the codex because its really cool to hate on anything mainstream such as this game

Reality is: its much better than the edgy simulator called Kotor 2 and probably the best thing bioware ever made

Kotor1 is hated because it's a pile of shit. Kotor2 was never given enough time to be fully-fleshed out, and it's a downright masterpiece compared to its midwit-tier banal shit boring predecessor.

 

[Ryan muller]

Kotor 1 is hated on the codex because its really cool to hate on anything mainstream such as this game

Reality is: its much better than the edgy simulator called Kotor 2 and probably the best thing bioware ever made

Kotor1 is hated because it's a pile of shit. Kotor2 was never given enough time to be fully-fleshed out, and it's a downright masterpiece compared to its midwit-tier banal shit boring predecessor.

Or maybe obsidian is shit and thats why almost all of their games are incomplete messes full of bugs and questionable writing

At the same time, the only game they actually finished, sucks ass (outer worlds)

Kotor 2 is a joke, anybody who somehow thinks its better than kotor 1 is a fool and should have its agenda completely discarded

 

[Skinwalker]

Or maybe

No.

Kotor 1 is a joke, anybody who somehow thinks its better than kotor 2 is a fool and should have its agenda completely discarded

ftfy

 

[The_Mask]

I'm starting to really dislike 4chan refugees. They never send their best.

 

[JDR13]

TES IV: Oblivion

Fallout 4

Underworld Ascendant

The Last of Us Part II

Hogwarts Legacy

 

[jebsmoker]

kotor 2 is good but it also has a massive rift in quality that's comparable to deadly premonition. one moment you're having a having a conservation with kreia that's actually interesting and stimulating, the next you're in this fuckoff huge area that feels like a spot from a low-budget german mmo from 2002 - it even has the same specific quality of enemy npcs staring off into oblivion in the same spot forever until you get close enough for them to see you

i'm sorry but having a massive and huge empty space with gangs of enemies sprinkled around on the map is not good encounter design

 

[Skinwalker]

the next you're in this fuckoff huge area that feels like a spot from a low-budget german mmo from 2002 - it even has the same specific quality of enemy npcs staring off into oblivion in the same spot forever until you get close enough for them to see you

i'm sorry but having a massive and huge empty space with gangs of enemies sprinkled around on the map is not good encounter design

Mostly just the final area, i.e. Malachor and Trays Academy, which are very obviously unfinished.

 

[Ryan muller]

The whole game actually. The problems in design are very obvious since the very first world in which most encounters are designed around having one single character with very limited tools, lots and lots of badly designed encounters, empty spaces and poorly thought out difficulty curve

The removal of level cap also utterly destroys the endgame by making everything a cakewalk so easy that you cant even struggle with anything, in endgame you will be around level 28 and its easy to utterly destroys ANY boss in few hits

Not to mention the fact the game keeps taking me out of the control of the exile to have long sections controling another characters which is garbage design as far as gameplay goes. Its not my pc, not my progress and sometimes not even a party member i already have in my party

Pacing is utterly destroyed because of it.

While kreia is the best part of the game, it only makes clear how contradictory the game is on game design.

Doubt me? Try to follow kreia's teachings and roleplay as someone who actually wants to be as ambiguos as her.

The worst part? THIS IS STILL their best game.

Obsidian might be the most overrated game developer ever made and the fact people somehow try to imply they are somehow even close to what Black isle once was is laughable.

 

[Butter]

Not to mention the fact the game keeps taking me out of the control of the exile to have long sections controling another characters which is garbage design as far as gameplay goes. Its not my pc, not my progress and sometimes not even a party member i already have in my party

This is something I don't see people bring up, and I can't fathom why. They did it once in Kotor 1 and it was kind of cute, but they do it at least 3 times in Kotor 2, and it's fucking terrible. If you didn't train Atton or the Handmaiden as Jedi there's a good chance you're fucked. Like it didn't even occur to Obsidian that players might not use those specific companions, let alone go through all their dialogues.

 

[Skinwalker]

If you didn't train Atton or the Handmaiden as Jedi there's a good chance you're fucked.

No you're not. All companions share the XP pool, so if you've never trained them, you'll have plenty of stats for them to level up when the game has you play their section (Jedi or no Jedi). Also, it's an easy game, git gut scrub, lmao.

 

[jebsmoker]

yeah kotor 2 isn't really that hard. the hardest part of the game, outside of boss battles or getting stonewalled by nearly every alien npc, is running into squads of three or more hk droids - but even then you can just lob ion grenades at them a million miles away

it is refreshing to get stonewalled by nearly everyone you meet into tho, i've only seen that in games like gothic and it does make sense - you're a literal nobody to a bunch of hardened tradoshan career criminals or whatever, and they mostly view you as an interloper at best

 

[Butter]

If you didn't train Atton or the Handmaiden as Jedi there's a good chance you're fucked.

No you're not. All companions share the XP pool, so if you've never trained them, you'll have plenty of stats for them to level up when the game has you play their section (Jedi or no Jedi). Also, it's an easy game, git gut scrub, lmao.

Yeah I'm well aware they share XP because I didn't use them and got the level-ups. If you don't exhaust their dialogue you don't get to turn them into Jedi. The Handmaiden fight against her sisters was obviously tuned with the expectation that she could use a lightsaber and the Force. If you don't have that option you're forced to cheese the AI.