Rumor: Bethesda has been in turmoil since the death of their CEO

[luj1]

It's been pretty obvious, if you've played any of their games post-Morrowind, that Bethesda don't really give a shit about their games. And Altman, the ruthless, psychopathic lawyer who stole Bethesda from Weaver and who died after the Microsoft deal, reportedly had never played a game in his life.

Bethesda is a mismanaged, low-talent studio whose success hasn't come from their own merit, but because they inherited a pioneering IP from people who were either kicked out of the company or left it after being sidelined early on. Since then, Bethesda has given that IP a b-tier (at best) treatment, while dumbing-down each successive game release. Todd Howard is a terrible game designer, whose only approach is ever to strip more things away. He's the opposite of a creative. He just takes away from what was already there and thinks he's done something impressive. Him and Emil Padugilo, or whatever that cringy, hack "writer" is named, have been an extreme blight on the Elder Scrolls and Fallout franchises. They have dragged the series far below their potential, and far below even a passable level.

Quoted for truth

 

[hello friend]

In all fairness, TES is a pretty boring piece of fiction, it's one of the most popular examples of utterly generic high fantasy.

The more conventional provinces of Tamriel are firmly in the realm of pulp fantasy, where countries or regions are based on a historical equivalent to provide color and cultural depth, at the expense of not being terribly original. High Rock is Britain/France, Hammerfell is the Islamic Maghreb, Skyrim is Scandinavia, and Cyrodiil is Roman Italy. The three elven provinces are already highly weird and unconventional fantasy setting, as demonstrated in Morrowind with its insectoid fauna, mushroom flora, and distinctive, sui generis Dunmer culture; the lore on Summurset Isle and Valenwood (such as A Dance in Fire) indicates they are similarly strange. Black Marsh, home of the lizardmen Argonians, and Elsweyr, home of the catpeople Khajiits, are even further out there. And that's without getting into Michael Kirkbride's background lore for the setting, or the oddities provided for The Elder Scrolls Online by Lawrence Schick.

That was a cool little tale. If you were to name a handful of other TES scribblings in similar vein, what are some good ones you could name?

 

[Spectacle]

Hardly anyone cared about Morrowind.

In 2006, I was someone with a greater-than-casual interest in games and I had never heard of Morrowind despite it being on xbox. Sure, it sold a couple of million, but didn't make a big splash. By contrast, Oblivion was everywhere.

The reason Oblivion got so much attention at launch was precisely because it was the long awaited sequel to Morrowind.

 

[Ryzer]

Haha, Starfield is delayed.

I'm hearing a bunch of interesting shit, including:

1) The place has been in turmoil since their CEO Altman died a few years ago.
2) There are company-wide issues with management, for example with Shinji Mikami leaving Tango, apparently there are major disagreements/power struggles including how to integrate with Xbox/MSFT.
3) Pete Hines was made Head of Global Publishing but nobody knows what that means exactly
4) People really phoned it in over Covid. Especially a lot of the higher ups who got paid millions when the company was acquired by MSFT (Altman took care of a lot of people, he was by all accounts a good dude). But high level employees were doing crazy shit like calling into meetings from the Caribbean properties they had bought. Just a total lack of give-a-shit
5) Todd Howard is apparently one of the only guys left over there in a senior position who actually wants to make video games.

I think it's the other way around, Altman is no more around at Bethesda trying to milk and squeeze the cow as much as possible. Emil is no more lead writer but lead designer as he was a pretty good designer but not a good writer.
The lead writer is now the guy responsible for the Far Harbor DLC which is by far the best thing Bethesda pulled out in terms of writing since a long time ago.
Todd Howard is an enthusiastic director, with good tastes in gaming, so that's a good thing.

 

[Roguey]

The reason Oblivion got so much attention at launch was precisely because it was the long awaited sequel to Morrowind.

Bethesda had a bigger marketing budget and made a game that appealed to a wider audience, people who had never heard of Morrowind. The Morrowind fans fucking hated it, all the new people (and the people who ragequit Morrowind at the beginning because they couldn't find find Caius Cosades) loved it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The very fact that the impossibility of finding Caius Cosades became a meme should already tell you that Morrowind was popular back in the day.

Also, at the time of Morrowind's release all gaming mags this side of potato made yuge comparisons/'showdowns' between it, NWN, IWD2 and Gothic 2 which were largely released around the same time. You are simply incorrect that Morrowind was supposed to be some kind of niche game, it was as 'AAA' for its time as it could get.

 

[NecroLord]

it was as 'AAA' for its time as it could get.

But what an AAA it was...
Still is.

 

[Roguey]

The very fact that the impossibility of finding Caius Cosades became a meme should already tell you that Morrowind was popular back in the day.

Also, at the time of Morrowind's release all gaming mags this side of potato made yuge comparisons/'showdowns' between it, NWN, IWD2 and Gothic 2 which were largely released around the same time. You are simply incorrect that Morrowind was supposed to be some kind of niche game, it was as 'AAA' for its time as it could get.

Popular among core gamers, not people who played games as a whole.

 

[Ryzer]

The very fact that the impossibility of finding Caius Cosades became a meme should already tell you that Morrowind was popular back in the day.

Also, at the time of Morrowind's release all gaming mags this side of potato made yuge comparisons/'showdowns' between it, NWN, IWD2 and Gothic 2 which were largely released around the same time. You are simply incorrect that Morrowind was supposed to be some kind of niche game, it was as 'AAA' for its time as it could get.

Didn't Oblivion take almost two to three times less to develop than Morrowind because they wanted to release it on Xbox360 at launch and showcase it at E3?

 

[Darth Roxor]

The very fact that the impossibility of finding Caius Cosades became a meme should already tell you that Morrowind was popular back in the day.

Also, at the time of Morrowind's release all gaming mags this side of potato made yuge comparisons/'showdowns' between it, NWN, IWD2 and Gothic 2 which were largely released around the same time. You are simply incorrect that Morrowind was supposed to be some kind of niche game, it was as 'AAA' for its time as it could get.

Popular among core gamers, not people who played games as a whole.

Thesis 1: Only 'core gamers' played Morrowind.
Thesis 2: Most people who played Morrowind loved it and hated Oblivion.
Thesis 3: Only a minority ragequit Morrowind because of Caius Cosades.
Thesis 4: Oblivion introduced the quest compass specifically to address the problem of finding Caius Cosades.

Theses 1 & 2 don't match 3 & 4.

 

[Hellraiser]

Morrowing being on the xbawks already made it more recognizable among people who played games, if only because it was one of the few notable console exclusives the box had. It put Bethesda on the consoletard map just like Kotor did for Bioware.

 

[None]

The very fact that the impossibility of finding Caius Cosades became a meme should already tell you that Morrowind was popular back in the day.

Also, at the time of Morrowind's release all gaming mags this side of potato made yuge comparisons/'showdowns' between it, NWN, IWD2 and Gothic 2 which were largely released around the same time. You are simply incorrect that Morrowind was supposed to be some kind of niche game, it was as 'AAA' for its time as it could get.

Popular among core gamers, not people who played games as a whole.

People who played games as a whole in 2003 and 2006 ended up being completely different groups. 7th gen consoles turned out to be a lot of people's starting point into video games as a whole. Doesn't seem very fair to compare the two periods outright.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Wasn't Daggerfall already p much everywhere when it released? At least that's what I remember, despite not really being interested in it. Morrowind was 100% mainstream, or whatever other term you want to use here.

 

[Spectacle]

The reason Oblivion got so much attention at launch was precisely because it was the long awaited sequel to Morrowind.

Bethesda had a bigger marketing budget and made a game that appealed to a wider audience, people who had never heard of Morrowind. The Morrowind fans fucking hated it, all the new people (and the people who ragequit Morrowind at the beginning because they couldn't find find Caius Cosades) loved it.

And they did that because Morrowind was already popular on the xbox, so they knew that investing in the sequel and dumbing it down a bit would give them a massive hit. Both game journos and fans were eagerly awaiting the game and hyped it so much casuals couldn't help but notice.

 

[Reina]

In 2006, I was someone with a greater-than-casual interest in games and I had never heard of Morrowind despite it being on xbox. Sure, it sold a couple of million, but didn't make a big splash. By contrast, Oblivion was everywhere.

It was very popular, mainly due to being shipped as a bonus with every graphics card on the market, and was heavily advertised in gaming magazines. Also, first major RPG on Xbox, so it also got much exposure on the console makret.

 

[Roguey]

The very fact that the impossibility of finding Caius Cosades became a meme should already tell you that Morrowind was popular back in the day.

Also, at the time of Morrowind's release all gaming mags this side of potato made yuge comparisons/'showdowns' between it, NWN, IWD2 and Gothic 2 which were largely released around the same time. You are simply incorrect that Morrowind was supposed to be some kind of niche game, it was as 'AAA' for its time as it could get.

Popular among core gamers, not people who played games as a whole.

Thesis 1: Only 'core gamers' played Morrowind.
Thesis 2: Most people who played Morrowind loved it and hated Oblivion.
Thesis 3: Only a minority ragequit Morrowind because of Caius Cosades.
Thesis 4: Oblivion introduced the quest compass specifically to address the problem of finding Caius Cosades.

Theses 1 & 2 don't match 3 & 4.

The people ragequitting were the demographic they wanted because they represented a larger group.

 

[luj1]

The very fact that the impossibility of finding Caius Cosades became a meme should already tell you that Morrowind was popular back in the day.

Also, at the time of Morrowind's release all gaming mags this side of potato made yuge comparisons/'showdowns' between it, NWN, IWD2 and Gothic 2 which were largely released around the same time. You are simply incorrect that Morrowind was supposed to be some kind of niche game, it was as 'AAA' for its time as it could get.

Popular among core gamers, not people who played games as a whole.

back in the day we all played games as a whole you homosexual

actual gamers (not trannies of today) who bought gaming magazines every month, and played Caesar 3, Morrowind, or Abbe's Oddysee with the same passion

 

[Higher Animal]

Hardly anyone cared about Morrowind.

In 2006, I was someone with a greater-than-casual interest in games and I had never heard of Morrowind despite it being on xbox. Sure, it sold a couple of million, but didn't make a big splash. By contrast, Oblivion was everywhere.

Every gaming magazine gave it top scores. I definitely knew about it before I played it.

Yes, core gamers knew about it. People with a casual interest in games did not. Bethesda sells tens of millions per game because casuals like them.

This is not really the case. It was a popular game on both pc and Xbox, and not just core gamers, which is a nebulous term anyway. My friend whose favorite game series of all time is nba 2k loved Morrowind.

In any case, Bethesda’s lane has been occupied by other procedural generation games and from software. They have a brand but no mission or ideas.

 

[whydoibother]

This is not really the case. It was a popular game on both pc and Xbox, and not just core gamers, which is a nebulous term anyway. My friend whose favorite game series of all time is nba 2k loved Morrowind.

Pretty sure Morrowind had horrible save game corruption on consoles, not sure how any console player could love the game.

 

[Ryzer]

This is not really the case. It was a popular game on both pc and Xbox, and not just core gamers, which is a nebulous term anyway. My friend whose favorite game series of all time is nba 2k loved Morrowind.

Pretty sure Morrowind had horrible save game corruption on consoles, not sure how any console player could love the game.

It has a terrible framerate as well when too many entities are loaded at once.

 

[Popiel]

Bethesda is, I believe, ontologically unable to make a game which could realise full potential TES has as a setting, and it has massive potential. They are, similarly but more mundanely, unable to utilise their Fallout license and I doubt Starfield will be anything worthy of notice. It's nice to have Beth around for Todd's memes alone, but come on, they deserve to die.

 

[NecroLord]

This is not really the case. It was a popular game on both pc and Xbox, and not just core gamers, which is a nebulous term anyway. My friend whose favorite game series of all time is nba 2k loved Morrowind.

Pretty sure Morrowind had horrible save game corruption on consoles, not sure how any console player could love the game.

I heard about it too.
Console Morrowind players get fucked BIG time.
One more reason to choose PC over console.

 

[Roguey]

back in the day we all played games as a whole you homosexual

actual gamers (not trannies of today) who bought gaming magazines every month, and played Caesar 3, Morrowind, or Abbe's Oddysee with the same passion

This is not really the case. It was a popular game on both pc and Xbox, and not just core gamers, which is a nebulous term anyway. My friend whose favorite game series of all time is nba 2k loved Morrowind.

In any case, Bethesda’s lane has been occupied by other procedural generation games and from software. They have a brand but no mission or ideas.

There were and continue to be varying levels of interest in gaming as a hobby. I already mentioned that I had never heard about Morrowind until Oblivion's release. My brother certainly didn't know about it. My brother's friend, when talking about Oblivion, expressed concerned about picking it up because he had never played the first three and thought he'd be lost in the story (of course I knew this was unlikely, companies don't restrict their audience to people who had only bought their previous titles).

If Morrowind was already some mega-popular thing, Oblivion wouldn't have made the radical changes it did to get an even bigger audience. Skyrim's success came from being a refinement of Oblivion, not a near-total overhaul.

 

[NecroLord]

Skyrim's success came from being a refinement of Oblivion

By "refinement" you mean a total desecration and annihilation of every shred of true RPG element?
Granted, the real decline started right after Morrowind.

 

[Higher Animal]

Roguey I’m just going to have to disagree here, tes moved from a more niche success to global success with Morrowind. It was despised by many on this forum in the ancient days because of this reason.