Interview Sawyer, Brennecke and Adler on Eternity's megadungeon and other stuff at Rock Paper Shotgun

[Roguey]

The sad thing with what you say is that the game doesn't even do most of the things Bond/Bauer/Bourne are renowned for.

Counterpoints: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldenEye_007_(1997_video_game)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ludlum's_The_Bourne_Conspiracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24:_The_Game

 

[Juggie]

I think Roguey has said that AP wasn't originally supposed to be much of a "Stealth RPG" at all.

Espionage is only == "stealth" in gamer logic, after all.

I didn't actually know that, but what was the main focus of the game then? It's mediocre shooter, it has mediocre dialogue minigames, shitty hacking (and other) minigames, semi decent C&C and minimalistic RPG mechanics (dat inventory/skill system).

I mean surely they didn't plan to sell it as generic shooter with dialogues, or did they? The stealth system wasn't all that, but it added at least some value to an otherwise bland TPS.

 

[Lhynn]

Stealth in AP? Nigger, please...

I think Roguey has said that AP wasn't originally supposed to be much of a "Stealth RPG" at all.

Espionage is only == "stealth" in gamer logic, after all.

cherry blossom "The espionage RPG"

Well, stealth never felt like a chore, it felt super easy, yes, but at least you had to plan your route, it wasnt till late game where it trivialized the whole deal. My only complain about alpha protocol is that for a espionage RPG there was little martini drinking, i wanted a lot more social interactions.
Any real criticism you can make to the game is from a popamole point of view, and honestly, fuck popamoles and their points of view. I enjoyed the stupid thing and it has been the only rpg ive replayed (and more than once) in like 7 years.

PS: bugs dont count, obsidian gets a free pass with them, beth doesnt, because fuck you if you do it the other way around, bugs can be fixed, bland, banal, shitty games cant.

 

[Roguey]

I didn't actually know that, but what was the main focus of the game then? It's mediocre shooter, it has mediocre dialogue minigames, shitty hacking (and other) minigames, semi decent C&C and minimalistic RPG mechanics (dat inventory/skill system).

I mean surely they didn't plan to sell it as generic shooter with dialogues, or did they?

Yep.

It originally had all sorts of QTEs and even more minigames too, as well as virtually no C&C. Mitsoda was knocked off the project because he couldn't/wouldn't deliver the narrative reactivity they wanted after two narrative passes.

It was one of the most poorly managed Obsidian games with a ton of in-fighting and Sega took over the gameplay aspects of the project in 2008 because Obs had thrown years of money down the drain with awful results. The reason it didn't get canceled instead of Aliens was because it had been in development longer, so it'd cost less money to get in a state of "completeness."

 

[cherry blossom]

The sad thing with what you say is that the game doesn't even do most of the things Bond/Bauer/Bourne are renowned for.

Counterpoints: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldenEye_007_(1997_video_game)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ludlum's_The_Bourne_Conspiracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24:_The_Game

Shitty game adaptations as counterpoints? Will we also start referencing board games, card games and other licensed paraphernalia now? Thanks but I already filled my daily quota for laughter.

 

[cherry blossom]

I didn't actually know that, but what was the main focus of the game then? It's mediocre shooter, it has mediocre dialogue minigames, shitty hacking (and other) minigames, semi decent C&C and minimalistic RPG mechanics (dat inventory/skill system).

I mean surely they didn't plan to sell it as generic shooter with dialogues, or did they?

Yep.

It originally had all sorts of QTEs and even more minigames too, as well as virtually no C&C. Mitsoda was knocked off the project because he couldn't/wouldn't deliver the narrative reactivity they wanted after two narrative passes.

It was one of the most poorly managed Obsidian games with a ton of in-fighting and Sega took over the gameplay aspects of the project in 2008 because Obs had thrown years of money down the drain with awful results. The reason it didn't get canceled instead of Aliens was because it had been in development longer, so it'd cost less money to get in a state of "completeness."

Mitsoda didn't want certain characters to be killable because he wanted to save them for a sequel.

Makes me worry about Dead State.

 

[Juggie]

Well, stealth never felt like a chore, it felt super easy, yes, but at least you had to plan your route, it wasnt till late game where it trivialized the whole deal. My only complain about alpha protocol is that for a espionage RPG there was little martini drinking, i wanted a lot more social interactions.
Any real criticism you can make to the game is from a popamole point of view, and honestly, fuck popamoles and their points of view. I enjoyed the stupid thing and it has been the only rpg ive replayed (and more than once) in like 7 years.

Actually I'm not saying it was a truly a bad game. It wasn't too long for its own good. I haven't finished any true RPGs for years because they tend to get repetitive quite early on, but AP (well, it wasn't much of an RPG, but w/e) at least trivialized the stealth system as soon as it started feeling repetitive. It didn't do anything outstandingly well, but it had an interesting mashup of some gameplay elements.

Yep.
It was one of the most poorly managed Obsidian games with a ton of in-fighting and Sega took over the gameplay aspects of the project in 2008 because Obs had thrown years of money down the drain with awful results. The reason it didn't get canceled instead of Aliens was because it had been in development longer, so it'd cost less money to get in a state of "completeness."

Then I'd say that the evil publisher kinda saved it from being a complete fucking disaster.

 

[Grunker]

What is the specific name for the brand of autism you suffer from vots?

 

[cherry blossom]

Perhaps if you shared your disagreement, we might eventually reach a diagnosis on that?

 

[Monty]

What is the specific name for the brand of autism you suffer from vots?

Have to admire your bravery in joking about autism Grunker, after all the dust is still settling on:

Grunkers Gonna Grunk

 

[Juggie]

Same here. It is the only IE game I never finished, despite trying at least three times. I finished IWD1 a couple of times despite not being a real fan of pure dungeon crawls, but IWD2 just grows too tedious for me at some point.

I actually finished the game (on the third try), but I have to agree it was repetitive, tedious and hands down the worst IE game from the ones I played (haven't finished PS:T so not sure about that).
Also I hugely prefer 3rd edition of D&D to the second one, but it just didn't work in IE - the engine wasn't made for it.
Plus the encounters. Ah, the horrible memories. In late game there were corridor locations with triggered spawns of monsters around you (yea fuck you stealth scouting or formations).
Also playing it on the hardest difficulty didn't help in making it more enjoyable.

BTW, on my first try I made a drow bard which started with 4 hp and at lvl 3 she had only 1 HP (yea, negative HP growth).

 

[Zero Credibility]

I actually finished the game (on the third try), but I have to agree it was repetitive, tedious and hands down the worst IE game from the ones I played (haven't finished PS:T so not sure about that).

I don't know which is a worse heresy - to imply that PS:T could possibly be the worst IE game or admitting that you didn't finish it. In any case,


Just kidding. But you really should give PS:T another try, the ending has some very good stuff indeed.

Also I hugely prefer 3rd edition of D&D to the second one, but it just didn't work in IE - the engine wasn't made for it.
Plus the encounters. Ah, the horrible memories. In late game there were corridor locations with triggered spawns of monsters around you (yea fuck you stealth scouting or formations).
Also playing it on the hardest difficulty didn't help in making it more enjoyable.

BTW, on my first try I made a drow bard which started with 4 hp and at lvl 3 she had only 1 HP (yea, negative HP growth).

Ah, I remember one of my attempts at making a "stealthy" party, only to realise that they managed to break even the simplistic IE stealth. Here's a tip for whoever was responsible for that - when your character successfully hides, enemies should probably head to the last place he was seen or maybe patrol around that place, searching for him. They should not be able to perfectly follow said hidden character around like they have a radar up their asses and when they get to him stand next to him doing fuck all.

 

[Darth Roxor]

bashing ap is about the only thing vots does that's justified

ignored Grunker

 

[Servo]

cherry blossom for what it's worth, your arguent is a lot more convincing than Grunker's ad-hominems or Infinitron's vagueness. But I have to wonder why we're nitpicking about stealth. The game will suck for many other reasons I'm sure.

 

[Infinitron]

But I have to wonder why we're nitpicking about stealth.

Isn't that what I said?

 

[Servo]

I guess. You have such a weird way of saying things that it takes me a few reads to figure out what the hell just happened.

 

[cherry blossom]

I just found it an apt opportunity to bring it up when Sawyer said "stealth wizard" and explained it with a surprise-fireball attack, as a perfect demonstration of the fundamentally flawed understanding of stealth over at Obsidian.

 

[Infinitron]

I just found it an apt opportunity to bring it up when Sawyer said "stealth wizard" and explained it with a surprise-fireball attack, as a perfect demonstration of the fundamentally flawed understanding of stealth over at Obsidian.

For the last time: You're not mad at their "understanding of stealth". You're mad that they're making an IE-style game. A style of RPG which features a particular subset of stealth mechanics which you're vocally not satisfied with.

Obsidian's "understanding of steath" is irrelevant here. They're making a particular kind of game and doing their job as they should.

I do hope that Obsidian one day make a Thief clone so you can finally shut up.

 

[cherry blossom]

I just found it an apt opportunity to bring it up when Sawyer said "stealth wizard" and explained it with a surprise-fireball attack, as a perfect demonstration of the fundamentally flawed understanding of stealth over at Obsidian.

For the last time: You're not mad at their "understanding of stealth". You're mad that they're making an IE-style game. A style of RPG which features a particular subset of stealth mechanics which you're vocally not satisfied with.

Obsidian's "understanding of steath" is irrelevant here. They're making a particular kind of game and doing their job as they should.

I do hope that Obsidian one day make a Thief clone so you can finally shut up.

Then I will bitch about the shitty combat

But you are dead wrong. I am glad about PE. I am happy we are getting a gorgeous 2D game. I would be enthusiastic if it were TB with Tim Cain on board but I'm fine with RTwP even if it is mostly shit. I'm not against RTwP by principle. I sort of like BG2 the way it is and wouldn't want it to be TB. BG2 doesn't have what it takes to be a good TB game, it is too arcadey. Likewise, I'm sure I'll enjoy PE as well unless the mechanics end up with too much console school influence.

The thing that bothers me is missed opportunities. I would love to play a proper "espionage" game that does the genre justice but FNV offers better and more espionage experiences than their game literally titled "The Espionage RPG" does. "The Espionage RPG" without espionage.

And I would also love a little more mechanical variety in gameplay, in line with the concept of whatever game they are making. Like some non-combat-centric tactical value to stealth.

 

[Servo]

I'm against RTwP by principle.

 

[Lhynn]

cherry blossom for what it's worth, your arguent is a lot more convincing than Grunker's ad-hominems or Infinitron's vagueness. But I have to wonder why we're nitpicking about stealth. The game will suck for many other reasons I'm sure.

Its only Ad-hominem if its a lie.

 

[Grunker]

What is the specific name for the brand of autism you suffer from vots?

Have to admire your bravery in joking about autism Grunker, after all the dust is still settling on:

Grunkers Gonna Grunk

What can I say, I am the bigger more autistic man.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

For a moment I thought that cherry blossom is Rosh :/ .