Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

[Sentinel]

The water and the centipedes are different sources of immortality IIRC.

The water pours directly from the Divine Realm. You see it pouring down the stairs you climb to the shrine that takes you to it.

 

[Child of Malkav]

2. I assume you didn't progress enough into the game to understand why the enemies respawn, there is a lore reason for that and it becomes important later on. Not going to say more. Just keep playing, pay attention to dialogue, read item descriptions, you know the drill. Also 2 of the endings are directly about that whole......coming back thing.

after beating the game I still don't know why trash mobs are respawning.
I understand about Guardian ape, mibu villagers and football ninjas from Fountainhead palace, but what about common ashina soldiers?

Afaik we actually don't know why the Ape, villagers and most of everyone else are respawning either. We only know that Sekiro resurrects because Kuro made him immortal with his divine blood. But what are those worm things inside people and animals and what's the deal with the villagers, that part of the lore is nowhere to be found.

water of immortality. Monks from Senpou temple were experimenting with it, thus creating Divine Child.

And why does it manifests differently in the temple and in the village? What are the wormy things? And where the water even came from?

The water the monks use is infected or impure. In Ashina Castle dialogue you can hear Kuro say to Emma that those waters spring from the Dragon's Blood. My guess is that they did experiments and managed to extract that water from the blood. How and why they used insects? Idk. In abandoned dungeon there are also clear signs of experimentation. Dosaku/Doujun quest. The guy is clearly a Senpou Temple monk. He's dressed like one, he fights like one. Dogen was also a monk probably since in one of the notes Dosaku and Dogen were colleagues, or so it seems.

Edit. The water from fountainhead palace is pure but transforms the drinker into fish like creatures. Mist nobles and then, it seems, old dragons of the tree, since they both use flutes.

 

[cvv]

Not bad. You can give Vaati a run for his money. Jk, never thought of that.

Btw is Dogen someone in the game, just transformed, or is he just a mention (I think as the Emma's teacher or something)?

 

[Cromwell]

Enemies respawning is not part of the plot except if the game explicitly tells you so (ape for example). Monks are not all immortal or their centipede would come out if you kill them or try to kill them, they just respawn because its a fromsoft game. By plotlogic dragon rot wuld kill people after a while so technically you would beat the game by jumping down a cliff about 300 times because everyone would die (except the immortal ones of course). Stop reading to much into that shit just because its FROM, its as gamey as any other game because it has to be.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Not bad. You can give Vaati a run for his money. Jk, never thought of that.

Btw is Dogen someone in the game, just transformed, or is he just a mention (I think as the Emma's teacher or something)?

I think he's just mentioned. Maybe DLC? He's pretty important in the lore, as well as Tomoe, which I think is the chick in the Sanctuary, lying against that stone altar thing, dreaming or being in the Divine Realm. That's how we get there in order to confront the Divine Dragon.
Dogen trained Emma to become a doctor and he also made the prosthetic with modifications in mind and the Sculptor states that he worked really hard on it, almost obsessed with it. Why?
Edit: typos correction.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Enemies respawning is not part of the plot except if the game explicitly tells you so (ape for example). Monks are not all immortal or their centipede would come out if you kill them or try to kill them, they just respawn because its a fromsoft game. By plotlogic dragon rot wuld kill people after a while so technically you would beat the game by jumping down a cliff about 300 times because everyone would die (except the immortal ones of course). Stop reading to much into that shit just because its FROM, its as gamey as any other game because it has to be.

They can't 100% explain everything dude. Also, it's very cool trying to understand the lore and piece together as much as possible.
Monks are implied to have so.e sort of immortality. If you look around the Temple, you can see corpses in the hundreds. One description says that the monks became obsessed with finding a way to immortality and abandoned the way of Buddha, killing those who opposed them, and there's are quite a few.
Genichiro uses in his 3rd phase the rejuvenating sediment, a concentrated part of the water. It's also implied that his soldiers drank a little bit of water since in the same dialogue between Kuro and Emma (I'm not sure if it's that or another) he asks her if this the secret weapon of Ashina, referring to the Rejuvenating Waters, the experiments (probably at Senpou) and stating that he doesn't believe that the Dragon's Blood is sacred.
As for dragonrot, idk yet fully how it functions.

 

[Cromwell]

They can't 100% explain everything dude

They dont have to. I am perfectly fine with gamey things. There are immortal monks, you even see them but I dont believe every monk is immortal. If you want to decyphner the lore thats fine too. I just saw a video a few days ago were a guy, in his best vaativoice impression, explained "the lore secrets and implications" about the armored dude when the guy practically spells out for you what his purpose in the game is. Even going so far as to say "I think they foreshadowed the centipedes by how they have drawn the firecrackers because it looks just like a centipede". Thats the level of "from lore derangement" we have already reached.

For the most part I think they are extremly straightforward with sekiro and everything that isnt explained mostly isnt there (yet, maybe dlc) and a lot of other stuff is just gamey things (for example you are immortal you should just stand up again again and again instead of getting ported to an idol.) Of course some things are a lot more obvious than others but its not at "you have to read the item descriptions" levels they had in other games (which also explains why the descriptions arent cryptic but just "this sword fucks up the undead" "this sugar makes you strong something something bhuddha"

 

[Child of Malkav]

Oh and yet another thing. Remember how it's mentioned repeatedly about the children of the Rejuvenating Waters? Being experimented on? Only one survived? I think more of them survived. Remember Kotaro? And the other big, fat guys, carrying a bell or a mace etc, how they're crying and their faces, like baby faces? Like baby crying? Yeah, I think those are the failed experiments of Senpou, given over to Ashina military as Taro troops.

 

[Sentinel]

Not bad. You can give Vaati a run for his money. Jk, never thought of that.

Btw is Dogen someone in the game, just transformed, or is he just a mention (I think as the Emma's teacher or something)?

I think he's just mentioned. Maybe DLC? He's pretty important in the lore, as well as Tomoe, which I think is the chick in the Sanctuary, lying against that stone altar thing, dreaming or being in the Divine Realm. That's how we get there in order to confront the Divine Dragon.
Dogen trained Emma to become a doctor and he also made the prosthetic with modifications in mind and the Sculptor states that he worked really hard on it, almost obsessed with it. Why?
Edit: typos correction.

If Tomoe is the woman depicted in the Lightning Reversal painting I don't think the one lying dead before the divine realm is her, since the haircut and a couple other peculiarities are completely different. You can obviously say "she could've just changed haircut" but I think if Miyazaki's objective was to hint or have players think the dead woman was Tomoe he'd have her appearance be more alike. It wouldn't even be hard because Emma has the same hairstyle as the woman in the painting.

But, refresh my memory here - what happened to the previous Dragon's Heritage Lord? I think the game hints that he and Tomoe failed to sever immortality, but if so then where's the kid? He's certainly still alive.

 

[Child of Malkav]

They can't 100% explain everything dude

They dont have to. I am perfectly fine with gamey things. There are immortal monks, you even see them but I dont believe every monk is immortal. If you want to decyphner the lore thats fine too. I just saw a video a few days ago were a guy, in his best vaativoice impression, explained "the lore secrets and implications" about the armored dude when the guy practically spells out for you what his purpose in the game is. Even going so far as to say "I think they foreshadowed the centipedes by how they have drawn the firecrackers because it looks just like a centipede". Thats the level of "from lore derangement" we have already reached.

For the most part I think they are extremly straightforward with sekiro and everything that isnt explained mostly isnt there (yet, maybe dlc) and a lot of other stuff is just gamey things (for example you are immortal you should just stand up again again and again instead of getting ported to an idol.) Of course some things are a lot more obvious than others but its not at "you have to read the item descriptions" levels they had in other games (which also explains why the descriptions arent cryptic but just "this sword fucks up the undead" "this sugar makes you strong something something bhuddha"

That guy you're talking about took it a bit far I think. You should just try to speculate based on item descriptions, dialogue, location of items, corpses, NPCs and where they move to etc. Also of help for this game specifically would be to know some Japanese mythology. I don't so I'm just working with what the game gives me.
They did say in interviews that the story is more straightforward but the lore and background info is delivered the same way as In previous Soulsborne titles.

 

[Cromwell]

I think the game hints that he and Tomoe failed to sever immortality

Spoiler

you are correct, tomoe didnt have the blade necessary to kill him, but I dont know what happened since I didnt finish it and have to go up to the divine realm still. Isnt tomoe buried at the old grave?

 

[Child of Malkav]

Not bad. You can give Vaati a run for his money. Jk, never thought of that.

Btw is Dogen someone in the game, just transformed, or is he just a mention (I think as the Emma's teacher or something)?

I think he's just mentioned. Maybe DLC? He's pretty important in the lore, as well as Tomoe, which I think is the chick in the Sanctuary, lying against that stone altar thing, dreaming or being in the Divine Realm. That's how we get there in order to confront the Divine Dragon.
Dogen trained Emma to become a doctor and he also made the prosthetic with modifications in mind and the Sculptor states that he worked really hard on it, almost obsessed with it. Why?
Edit: typos correction.

If Tomoe is the woman depicted in the Lightning Reversal painting I don't think the one lying dead before the divine realm is her, since the haircut and a couple other peculiarities are completely different. You can obviously say "she could've just changed haircut" but I think if Miyazaki's objective was to hint or have players think the dead woman was Tomoe he'd have her appearance be more alike. It wouldn't even be hard because Emma has the same hairstyle as the woman in the painting.

But, refresh my memory here - what happened to the previous Dragon's Heritage Lord? I think the game hints that he and Tomoe failed to sever immortality, but if so then where's the kid? He's certainly still alive.

Yeah, that's still shaky ground with Tomoe. If she was one of the Okami warrior women, she probably wouldn't even look human, but then again the warriors in Fountainhead Palace wear masks and they're humanoids, so we don't know exactly how monstrous they look.
Regarding Takeru, well...idk. The old grave area contains the resting place of the 2 of them, Tomoe and Takeru but I'm not convinced they're dead.
They failed to sever it because they didn't have a Mortal Blade. Where he is? DLC I guess.
Another thing: where is Robert? His father brought him to the Temple to be healed and he stood guard over the bridge but what about his son? My guess is that he's one of the small centipede thingies that resemble the big guys with the blades, the Long Arm Centipede Sen-un and Giraffe.

 

[cvv]

Btw didn't Miyazaki explicitly said there are no definitive answers for certain details in his games? He's intentionally leaving the door open for people's own theories, so my theory can be just as good as anyone else's. I think it's kindda cool. Definitely refreshing, after years of videogame narratives that not only simplistic already but also spoonfed to players like the retards they are.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Btw didn't Miyazaki explicitly said there are no definitive answers for certain details in his games? He's intentionally leaving the door open for people's own theories, so my theory can be just as good as anyone else's. I think it's kindda cool. Definitely refreshing, after years of videogame narratives that not only simplistic already but also spoonfed to players like the retards they are.

That is the case with all Soulsborne titles. Up to your interpretation for some stuff.

 

[Cromwell]

Another thing: where is Robert? His father brought him to the Temple to be healed and he stood guard over the bridge but what about his son?

or he is one of the children that got killed when they made a fake heir.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Another thing: where is Robert? His father brought him to the Temple to be healed and he stood guard over the bridge but what about his son?

or he is one of the children that got killed when they made a fake heir.

Or one of the Taro troops, or one of the small guys, with hats they use as shields. I think they're also failed experiments. Whatever, it didn't well for Robert.

 

[Parabalus]

I really like how it has less RPG elements than the DSs, so you can't "outstat" enemies as easily. The world seems less open though.

They have absolutely nailed the stat thing. I love it way more than being able to level by farming souls. I can imagine it makes balancing the world way easier and more consistent. Plus you can still grind for skills so they haven't done away with farming completely. Love it.

I'm not sure if the world is less open tho. The levels themselves definitely seem more straightforward. I think Ashina Castle and Hirata Estate are the only ones that fully use the From patented verticality and the maze-like architecture. The rest feel like nothing more than slightly wider corridors. Sad. But the world is nowhere near as linear, quite a few options once you slaughter the bull.

I was actually thinking more along of items and doing content "out of order" to get a power boost, e.g. in DS I ran around after the tutorial and looted some rad items, while in DS3 I killed Dancer 2nd and got access to high tier stuff earlier, which "broke" the game.

Don't think Sekiro has those same options (which I like), but I only just got to the castle (where the map seemingly opens up) and ran trough the temple.

 

[cvv]

I was actually thinking more along of items and doing content "out of order" to get a power boost, e.g. in DS I ran around after the tutorial and looted some rad items, while in DS3 I killed Dancer 2nd and got access to high tier stuff earlier, which "broke" the game.

In Sekiro you can't do that because there is no game breaking gear to get. Nothing to do with world openness.

Btw while we're at it - not going with an RPG they intentionally made a smaller, less ambitious game. That's all the "we're making an action game for change" talk amounts to. I love Sekiro but it's not a leap forward for From, more like a side step.

 

[Sentinel]

It's made with From's money so it's naturally a more focused game. But it's all the better for it. Sekiro really shows what you can do when you have clear design goals and aren't hindred by the expectation from people to have 5000 weapons and armors and 80 bosses. You can just design systems and content that are tailor made for what you have instead of having combat systems that have to adapt to a multitude of weapon types and tools.

 

[Cromwell]

clear design goals

:D

 

[Adon]

You're right. Instead of 80 bosses, it's now 80 mini-bosses with half of them being re-used.

 

[Sentinel]

You being factually wrong aside, I meant actual bosses. If you don't like the mini-bosses (the big majority of them aren't even hard lol) you can just skip them with the exception of the Armored Knight.

 

[cvv]

It's made with From's money so it's naturally a more focused game.

Sure but it's smaller and less ambitious. From did a good job with Sekiro but didn't outdo themselves. Luckily they still have the "dark RPG" in the oven so fingers crossed.

 

[Sentinel]

How is it less ambitious? it's their most ambitious game since Bloodborne (their only other ambitious title). Everything else is derivative copy pasted wank.

 

[Silva]

TheSentinel , the word you want is bold , which the game certainly is for going with an ultra-focused design. It's even elegant in a way (it reminds me of Into the Breach in this regard).

But ambitious it's not. It's scope is small like sullynathan 's dick.