DraQ
Arcane
Who said anything about hiking all over the world at lvl 1?
That's who.
Who said anything about hiking all over the world at lvl 1?
Brotip: If your combat system allows high level character to slaughter arbitrary number of low level combatants attacking simultaneously, then it's shitty. If not, then you don't need godmode guards.
Edit:
Or godmode cultists.
Also, trampling threats is boring - threats are supposed to be threatening. What's the point of steamrolling opposition? Where's the challenge/game in that? Therefore, the threats should be adjusted so they remain threatening.
Meeting the same enemies, with the same abilities that require run-of-the-mill strategy, who just happen to have shitloads of HP and hit harder, all that over and over is fun only so long.
We have no need to accomodate to the whims of those wishing to go hiking all over the world at level 1.
Who said anything about hiking all over the world at lvl 1?
I think locations should have some level threshold e.g. you need to be at least level 9 to have fair chance of defeating a Liche King - nothing stops you from attempting that at level 6, however - in fact if you know the game inside out you might even succeed!. Note that when you are level 13, the Liche king is going to be much more powerful, and have more varied minions (the narrative could simply explain that he regained much of his power with time). What's wrong with that?
This is the key to understanding Mondblut.Also, trampling threats is boring - threats are supposed to be threatening. What's the point of steamrolling opposition? Where's the challenge/game in that? Therefore, the threats should be adjusted so they remain threatening.
No. RPGs are power fantasies. Gleefully roflstomping shit you were terrified of just a few evenings before is the whole purpose of them. If all opposition is custom-tailored to be threatening no matter your power, there is no purpose in increasing that power in the first place.
Here, you may enjoy this ar pee gee:
http://www.sophiehoulden.com/games/thelinearrpg/
Basically this.
Let's consider a simple example. We have our level 12 warrior in a magical full plate armour fighting 20 lvl 1 goblins. In your typical AD&D cRPG the fight would be trivial and boring - 20 goblins rushing at you and failing to scratch you, because you have too high AC while your slaughter them left and right. Bad combat design through and through - you becoming unbeatable for a contrived reason creates the sense of tedium in player.
What should happen is this: 20 goblins attack you from all directions. Instead of thwacking you with what amounts to sticks, they attempt to immoblilize you - they jump onto your back, grip you limbs and finally pull you to the ground. Then they use spears and pitchforks to pierce every gap and hole in your armour - all is just like peasants would do on medieval battlefield. Congrats - you are dead. This way even the most mundane enemies remain threatening throughout the game even though you could easily win 1-on-1 combat with them.
Currently playing Skyrim again, and it's not challenging in the least anymore because my character has reached level 49 and can kill even the most fearsome enemies in 3 hits. When I met a dwemer guardian mech, and killed him with two arrow shots, I was thinking: should games even allow the PC to become so powerful that enemies that were intended to be hard and fearsome can be killed as easily as a fly?
It's especially jarring in games where you start out as a mediocre fighter at best, but end up more powerful than the greatest archmage and the most ancient creatures.
Wouldn't it be better to make it incredibly hard (very high XP requirements or something) to reach a level that can even compare to these enemies/NPCs, and make it completely impossible to surpass them? This would make combat with such enemies a challenge for well-prepared adventurers. It would be even better in a party-based RPG, cause it means that tactics would really matter.
Basically this.
Let's consider a simple example. We have our level 12 warrior in a magical full plate armour fighting 20 lvl 1 goblins. In your typical AD&D cRPG the fight would be trivial and boring - 20 goblins rushing at you and failing to scratch you, because you have too high AC while your slaughter them left and right. Bad combat design through and through - you becoming unbeatable for a contrived reason creates the sense of tedium in player.
What should happen is this: 20 goblins attack you from all directions. Instead of thwacking you with what amounts to sticks, they attempt to immoblilize you - they jump onto your back, grip you limbs and finally pull you to the ground. Then they use spears and pitchforks to pierce every gap and hole in your armour - all is just like peasants would do on medieval battlefield. Congrats - you are dead. This way even the most mundane enemies remain threatening throughout the game even though you could easily win 1-on-1 combat with them.
Ironically, this is a bit like how it felt when fighting large numbers of goblins in Oblivion. The sheer number of them meant my character got "staggered" all the time, and it took a long time to kill all the goblins even at high levels.
I was annoyed that I couldn't just walz over the little buggers now that I had reached a decent level, and I wished I had access to the "sweeping" attack of the AD&D Gold Box games, instead of having to fight the little runts one by one. I used the FCOM mod, so there was only partial level scaling.
Getting swarmed by hordes of low level enemies when you are a 10 to 20th level knight in armour may be more realistic, but sweeping through them is just more fun.
Here, you may enjoy this ar pee gee:
http://www.sophiehoulden.com/games/thelinearrpg/
That's a jrpg, you silly sod.
Difficulty settings.Why the fuck do you assume everyone has the same definition of 'extensive preparations' and 'very good tactician'? What about the other 90% of the people playing the game that prepared more or less than you did, and are better or worse tacticians?
Damned Registration uses Strawman!
It's not effective.
This is my line, you keep bringing up examples of daedric bandits nobody is trying to defend and using them as reasoning why all scaling is bad.Shitty combat systems are shitty, news at eleven.
Brotip: If your combat system allows high level character to slaughter arbitrary number of low level combatants attacking simultaneously, then it's shitty. If not, then you don't need godmode guards.
Edit:
Or godmode cultists.
Level should matter a lot when fighting equally numerous force of playable race or similar characters, it should matter little when swamped by bazillion of foes, or when fighting something completely different (like a giant, demon or dragon). In the latter case level might be crucial to have hopes of survival, but merely charging forth with sword in your hand, even buffed to absurd level, should reduce to "you die".
Or godmode cultists.
Level should matter a lot when fighting equally numerous force of playable race or similar characters, it should matter little when swamped by bazillion of foes, or when fighting something completely different (like a giant, demon or dragon). In the latter case level might be crucial to have hopes of survival, but merely charging forth with sword in your hand, even buffed to absurd level, should reduce to "you die".
Why?
Explain to me why a character in power armor with a rocket launcher should feel threatened by a swarm of hobos with shotguns. Besides the amazingly stupid copout of 'he should never get that much stronger than when he started.' There simply reaches a point where the difference in combat ability of two entitites is too extreme for them to interact in any way but a one sided massacre. No quantity of lions is going to be a threat to a tank, even though a single one could easily kill the pilot if he exited the vehicle. These differences in power level are just as easy to create in a fantasy setting, and there is no good reason not to allow the player immense amounts of growth if it suits the setting and plot.
The difference between gear and innate character growth is completely arbitrary. Replace the shotgun hobos with midgets carrying clubs, and the tank with a 7 foot warrior that can run faster than a cheetah all day long and throttle mountain lions. No quantity of weaklings will overcome him. Never mind when you bring magic into the mix (which would probably be necessary for the above if the warrior in question is remotely human.)
There is NO difference between gauntlets that add 5 strength and adding 5 strength from gaining levels, aside from fluff. They should be equally difficult to acquire, and provide exactly the same effect. If the town guards can't get one they shouldn't get the other, and if they could, it causes all the same problems as the other. Town guards that can kill the guy who killed the ogre tribe should have been able to kill the ogre tribe themselves, whether they killed the guy with their giant muscles or giant swords.
The sole exception to this are static defenses (i.e. murder holes and such), which are almost never used in games against the player by the guards.
But hey, I look forward to your exciting game about the hero that stayed at the inn until it burnt to the ground, cowering in terror of the dragon ruling the world that he never could have done anything about. At least it won't be totally ruined by the fact that if I backtrack to an area I haven't seen in 20 hours I can win fights really easily.
The difference between gear and innate character growth is completely arbitrary. Replace the shotgun hobos with midgets carrying clubs, and the tank with a 7 foot warrior that can run faster than a cheetah all day long and throttle mountain lions. No quantity of weaklings will overcome him. Never mind when you bring magic into the mix (which would probably be necessary for the above if the warrior in question is remotely human.)
Dwarf Fortress adventure mode disagrees with you. 3 bandits in front of you taking your attention, and an archer behind you shooting an arrow through your knee, chipping a bone and causing heavy pain and some bleeding. This would also decreases your combat effectiveness a little, because you're now in pain. This would never have happened if the archer was alone and my warrior could have faced him to block the arrow. But, alas, being surrounded and then shot from behind can be disadvantegous for even the best fighter...
You know, combat mechanics that include more tactical options and effects than just "hurr everyone beats each other till someone falls down".
Here, you may enjoy this ar pee gee:
http://www.sophiehoulden.com/games/thelinearrpg/
That's a jrpg, you silly sod.
You see, while RPG players see their stats and upgrades as tools to define their characters, you only care about rewards and power wankery. In other words, you're not that different from a JRPG player, you just don't like animu.
That aside, dwarf fortress' combat has ranged from spinning vomit thrown by children decapitating dragons or dwarven champions to invincible grand master fighters fighting in dozens of seiges against dozens of archers without ever getting a single wound (until you meet some demons and they tear him apart like nothing.) I generally prefer when it works the second way.
That aside, dwarf fortress' combat has ranged from spinning vomit thrown by children decapitating dragons or dwarven champions to invincible grand master fighters fighting in dozens of seiges against dozens of archers without ever getting a single wound (until you meet some demons and they tear him apart like nothing.) I generally prefer when it works the second way.
But is that really the more fun way? When you've reached a certain level in a game and know that there's nothing that can challenge you anymore, do you feel any motivation to go on? Yeah, it can be entertaining to hack off limbs left and right in DF, but it's even more entertaining and even exciting when you get wounded, have to tactically disable enemies before they can hurt you more, and do a tactical retreat before you pass out from the pain. That's when the combat becomes really awesome, not when I'm an invincible super-tank who eats whole bandit camps for breakfast.
There seems to be the opinion that RPGs should accurately simulate what real combat should be like. While there should be some games like this, I don't see why every games needs to do this.
Art is not required, or even advised, to emulate life.
If the grappling hooks and nets are so awesome, why can't they use them on the ogres?
These things aren't magical artifacts that automically hit and trap someone regardless of their strength or skill. You act like the only thing that changes about someone more skilled in combat is the lethality of their attacks. If you can manage not to get crushed to death by fucking ogres, it stands to reason you can avoid a fucking net, or break free from it.
By your (incredibly shitty) logic, levels would be entirely meaningless because whichever side has a numbers advantage wins anyways. They can just send a mob of children to defeat everything in the game while the hero sits at home. As long as they have nets!
There doesn't need to be meaningful combat with every fucking entity in the game.
If a crippled old lady attacks you, she should be fucking harmless, not some relevant threat 'because otherwise there'd be no gameplay'.
Likewise with people who hire you to defeat enemies far more powerful than them. You cannot reconcile the fact that the people guarding the town can defeat you but not enemies you can defeat yourself because it makes no fucking sense.
A group is either stronger than another group or it is not.
The rock/paper/scissors crap is irrelevant because it would go both ways; if there are guards that can kill heroes who slay ogres, logically there are PCs that would get raped by the ogres but massacre the guards.