Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

[King Arthur]

Huh. Doesn't that mean I should avoid trading with them at all costs as they're going to get the better deal?

If they're making money from trading with you, you become a valuable asset/ally to them.

Most people don't understand strategy. I once watched a bit of a livestream of a Civ 5 game and the players just made random buildings and stuff.

Miller: It’s important to us that there aren’t any systematic weaknesses when you’re selecting a Civ. We want it to be a choice between a big list of very good things, so what you don’t take with you is the penalty for what you do.

I find the most interesting factions are the ones that have massive weaknesses and massive benefits. The Hive in Alpha Centauri for instance has a very interesting playstyle, as the -1 ECON is crippling for early game research, but you're able to spam formers thanks to the + SUPPORT you get from dictatorship. Initially you're at a disadvantage, but you can quickly industrialise with mass boreholes and condensers to make up for it. That's how I play Hive.

Their axiom sounds like the sort of thing that would go over well at a board meeting, where ideas are weakly evaluated, but not scrutinised too hard. Big arguments over design philosophy don't go over well with large numbers of people, and not many people are into that sort of thing anyway. It's easier for everyone to just go with the flow. It's funner for the team and they get paid either way.

But the axiom is most definitely bullshit. Maybe it's true that on some subconscious level people are turned off by negative Civ traits, but there's no reason to assume that. The devs are just guessing, their axiom is chosen merely because it sounds nice to them on a very shallow level. Thinking about it for a second, they would realise it's baloney.

 

[oscar]

In SMAC you (in multiplayer at least) tend to avoid trading with Morgan at all unless he's weak as hell for that reason.

 

[Kane]

 

[Space Satan]

From gamestar interview

• Terrain & Terraforming: SMAC - SMAC had real 3D terrain, each tile had exposition, heigh and inclination, with an impact on gameplay. Tiles could be raised and lowered or the player could plant forests.
  Terrain & Terraforming: BE - Since BE uses the CIV5 graphics engine, the terrain is "flat". The terrain has a clear structure and each tile consists of a fixed terrain type and cannot be changed. Terraforming is gone, so interaction is limited by building farms, mines and the like.
  Terrain & Terraforming: Why it was changed - (David McDonough) - "Like many other players I have found memories of SMAC's terraforming. But in BE we used another approach because we don't think that this level of micromanagement is really necessary. Instead you can now influence the terrain with units, like satellites that can create or remove Miasma."
  
• Governments: SMAC - Instead of premade governments (like "republic"), we were allowed to create our own state from 16 predefined policies like "police state" or "mind control". That had different pros and cons, could be changed at any time and had significant impact on diplomacy.
  Governments: BE - Culture gained from buildings increases culture levels and unlocks "virtues". There are 4 differnt trees (Might, Growth, Science, Industry).
  Governments: Why it was changed - (David McDonough) - "The virtues act like the SPs from CIV5. We like that because it allows you to shape the identy of your people. Now we also have quest decisions and affinities. That adds a lot more character than a simple "form of government".

• Diplomacy & Espionage: SMAC - Next to direct negotiations we had the planetary council, some sort of UN to make important global decisions. Espionage was handled via a CIV2 like system with on-map units.
  Diplomacy & Espionage: BE - There is no longer a planetary council, so we have only direct negotiations with other players. Espionage, however, was improved: Instead of on-map units we assign spies in a special menu.
  Diplomacy & Espionage: Why it was changed - (Will Miller) "You can interact a lot more with the other parties than you could in CIV, since we have more than just alliances and the like. We removed the planetary council because it was not really necessary anymore. In SMAC it was one of the victory conditions, but now we have different ones."

• Story & Quests: SMAC - As the game went on the planet became increasingly hostile. The told the story via text: The planet was alive - and allergic against humans.
  Story & Quests: BE - There is no story. Instead the player can start quests via surveying artifacts that tell little stories. The play can, for example, look for clues about the precursors that lived on the planet - but he doesn't have to.
  Story & Quests: Why it was changed - (David McDonough) - "We think CIV players want to experience their own story - many write down their experience and publish them in forums. We don't want to ruin that with a strict storyline. Instead quests will give the player some cool SciFi bits that they can weave into their story."
• Cities & Expansion: SMAC - Founding cities in SMAC worked like in every CIV game before. Except for one thing: We could also settle the seas with special colony ships.
  Cities & Expansion: BE - No more ocean cities, the player can only settle on land. Colonists are costly and outposts need 10-15 turns before they turn into real cities. Until then they are defenceless and must be protected and supplied.
  Cities & Expansion: Why it was changed - (Anton Strenger) "We thought about adding ocean cities but refrained to add them in, because we want the player to focus on land. Outposts were added to prevent rapid expansion and allow early game border clashes. The player should focus on the alien enviroment instead of the other factions during the early game."
  
• Combat System: SMAC - Combat is like in CIV2. An unlimted amount of units can be placed on any tile. A new mechanic allowed to bombard tiles and damage all units on it. This made bigger armies more vulnerable.
  Combat System: BE - BE uses the CIV5 combat system: 1UPT, so the formation of the units is very important. Satellites add a new level of strategic depth.
  Combat System: Why it was changed - (Dennis Shirk) "We added hexes and 1UPT to CIV5 to remove the doomstacks from CIV4. Instead of just massing units in cities battles should be fought on the world map. Initially the AI had some trouble, but it got better after a few patches." [Indeed, now they just suicide their armies most of the time...]
• Units & Upgrades: SMAC - Instead of researching CIV-like prebuild units the player unlocks parts. From these the player can create whatever unit he desires. Old units could be upgraded for an energy cost.
  Units & Upgrades: BE - Premade units, all units of one category (e.g. Infantry) can be upgraded for free once the player has reached a higher affinity level. Each upgrade offers 2 perks, but only once can be chosen. Veteran units increase their combat power like in SMAC, but don't learn new special abilities [from promotions] like in CIV5.
  Units & Upgrades: Why it was changed - (Will Miller) "Our first prototype actually contained a SMAC-like unit editor. However, that required too much micromanagement and was quite tedious. So we decided to go with a more linear upgrade system that made more fun and felt more like CIV."
• Factions: SMAC - Factions with ideologies, pros + cons, impact on AI behaviour
  Factions: BE - Nationality + Colonist Professions + Equipment. AI behaviour depends on nationality, but may vary: Brazilian AI is usually more aggressive than Franco-Iberia but doesn't have to.
  Factions: Why it was changed - (Will Miller) "We want to give the player more choise when selecting a Faction. Instead of repeating the same strategy over and over again they should try new things. Ai doesn't follow a fixed strategy but reacts to it's situation.
• Espionage is available from the very beginning of the game and has even bigger impact on relations.
• The longer a spy is assigned to a city and the more spies are assigned to a city [so it seems you can have multiple spies per city, unlike in CIV5] the more points are added to the local "Intrigue" value. The intrigue value has 5 levels that determine what espionage actions are available for that city. The first 3 levels are rather harmless (e.g. tech stealing), while the last 2 levels allow nasty stuff.
• High level espionage options include: flipping the city [not clarified if that is instant or with rebellion over time] or luring "Alien Siege Worms" to the city that destroy tile improvements and kill units. If a city has a high Intrigue level the owner will receive a warning. A player can assign spies for counter-espionage.
• Health works like happiness in CIV5. Too many and too big cities make people "ill", certain buildings and ressources increase health. It is a global variable.
• If health drops too low culture and science suffer, if it drops even lower industry and food production are affected.
• Too rapid expansion can thus have dire consquences for the player.
• Firaxis has slowed down expansion sinificantly. Colonists [equivalent to the CIV5 settler unit] are very costly. New cities start as outposts and require 10-15 turns to become a "full city". This was done to prevent early border clashes and instead make the player to focus on the planet and its wild life.
• The player can build terrain improvements like farms and mines. Roads are also available, but cause upkeep cost like in CIV5.
• To make more money the player can trade with foreign cities or "Stations" [who are equal to the City States of CIV5]. "Stations" are founded from time to time. The player gets a pop up where two different companies (example: a mining company and a weapon manufacturer) request clearance to settle near his territory. He can select one of them that will then create a station near his territory.
• If the player creates a trade route with that city via a game menu, he receives benefits in return. Military Forts, for example, grant free units [like Military City States in CIV5]. Trading with a station near another AI player can lower relations with that AI
• Each affinity has 4 super units for very high affinity levels: Harmony - "Xenotitan" (a giant alien colossus), Purity - "Flying Battleship" (can move over land, sea and mountains). Due to these "super units" each faction should be quite different during late game.
• Neighbors with different ideologies don't get along very well [like CIV5 ideologies?].
  Satellites offer a new level of strategy for BE. Once they are build in a city they can be put into orbit. Some possible effects: More research, bombard enemies, increase combat power of nearby troops.
• Satellites can usually only be placed near own cities. Satellite influence areas must not overlap. Hostile Artillery [AA?] can shoot down the "flyers".
• Satellites only last for a limited amount of time. Economic-type satellties usually last longer than military ones.
• Affinities can influence satellite effects. For example, Supremacy players can place satellites over any Fireaxite ressource on the map (Firaxite is used for high-tech units). If they use a "Teleport-Satellite" they can quickly move units across the globe.
• Another mechanic for customization are "Virtues". Virtue lelves are gained via culture, which is produced by buildings. The game offers 4 different virtue trees: Might, Growth, Science, Industry. These are like CIV5 SP trees, but with much more advantages. In addition to these "Virtues" each tree gives a "Snyergy" bonus if the player unlocks "a lot" of virtues within it. Example: "Growth" improves food production and health of cities.
• There are 7 different unit types: soldiers, tanks, planes, battle ships. Each unit type can be upgraded three times and the first upgrade is always the same and does not require an affinity, but the last two tiers do. Example: Purity infantry units get thicker armor, while "Harmony Hippies" use fast and flexible troops.
• The player can only select one of the two available perks of each upgrade level. This means troops of the same Affinity can be developed quite differently.
• "After selecting an upgrade all units of this type are upgraded for free" On the other hand units do no longer have experience promotions [like in CIV5]. They can still level up, but are only able to upgrade their combat strength a bit or fully heal once [this seems to imply that special promotions like "Blitz" or "March" are GONE!]
• Different unit types can be upgraded at different paces. "Infantry" only needs "Affinity Level" 9 for tier II upgrades, while "Light Vehicles" need level 13 for tier II, "Artillery" and "Carriers" are even more costly.
• It is possible for the player to level several Affinites, but then he won't be able to get the max tier for these Affinities
• There are "7 regular unit types" [presumably Infantry, Artillery, Tanks, etc. he doesn't go into details, but see (38) below].
  Example for the "Infantry" upgrade path [includes the 3D model for each unit]:
  "Soldier" - basic melee unit that can be trained from the very start. The "stone age warrior" of BE.
  "Marine" - improved grunt. Perks: Faster healing OR +20% combat strength.
  "Harmony Tier I: Brawler" - Perks: +40% defence vs. ranged attacks OR damages all adjacent enemies upon death.
  "Supremacy Tier I: Diciple" - Perks: +20% firepower [probably combat strength] bonus when next to an allied unit OR +40% combat strength when alone
  "Purity Tier I: Sentinel" - +30% defence OR +10% offensive firepower [probably combat strength] for each unused movement point.
  "Harmony Tier II: Marauder" - Perks: +40% combat strength while in Miasma OR requires only one movement point regardless of terrain [like CIV5 scouts].
  "Supremacy Tier II: Apostle" - Perks: +10 HP per adjacent ally OR +50% combat strength when flanking the enemy.
  "Purity Tier II: Centurion" - Perks: +1 movement per turn OR full heal at the beginning of each turn.
• Purity doesn't like to get anything close to it. Uses high firepower and ranged attacks.
• Supremecy are the robot and cyborg guys. They are reliant on formations because units give/receive benefits when next to each other.
• Harmony uses troop masses to overrun enemies. They also use terrain to their advantage, for example Miasma heals harmony units instead of damaging them.
• The player also starts with an "Explorer" unit which he can use to scout the map.
• It is advisable to leave "Alien Hives" alone, same for "Coastal Areas" where "Sea Dragons sometimes devour careless passerby".
• During exploration his unit stumbled upon a "Bonus Crates" full of gold/energy. He also found "Giant Skeletons" and "Ruins".
  These artifacts can be surveyed, the Explorer unit has to hold his ground for a few turns to do so [so like a worker/archaeologist in CIV5].
  The Skeleton rewarded him with a "Controllable Alien Unit", while the ruins gave him a "Quest".
• There are different kinds of quests. Some are straitforward ("Find two bonus crates") others are complex, like in his case: He found a human skeleton in the ruins that was several thousand years old. He has to build a lab to progress. The quests can lead to one of the 5 different win conditions: (a) Contact the precursors who live/lived on the planet (b) conquer all enemy capitals (c) special victory condition for each affinity.
• Affinites are like Ideologies from CIV5. They are mostly influenced by the player's tech choises.
• Possible combinations: 8 leaders + 5 colonist types + 5 cargo types + 5 ship types = 1000 potential combinations for the player CIV/Faction. Unlike with the CIV5 Civilizations the differences between the factions are rather small, because only the national bonus is unique, the remaining choises only affect the early game.
• Factions do not provide Unique Units or Unique Buildings. This is "done later"
• The first city can be founded within a limited area (red colored borders). This area is bigger if the player selects the "Counter-Impulse Thrusters". After the starting hex is selected a drop pod is sent to the surface and you have the very first "foothold" on the planet.
• Very first in regards to AI opponents are arriving one after another in the following 10 turns [Sounds like AI spawn is staggered]. The first few turns can be used to improve the city, watch "Alien Hounds".
  

 

[Kane]

• Story & Quests: SMAC - As the game went on the planet became increasingly hostile. The told the story via text: The planet was alive - and allergic against humans.
  Story & Quests: BE - There is no story. Instead the player can start quests via surveying artifacts that tell little stories. The play can, for example, look for clues about the precursors that lived on the planet - but he doesn't have to.
  Story & Quests: Why it was changed - (David McDonough) - "We think CIV players want to experience their own story - many write down their experience and publish them in forums. We don't want to ruin that with a strict storyline. Instead quests will give the player some cool SciFi bits that they can weave into their story."

good dodge.

 

[DeepOcean]

"We think CIV players want to experience their own story - many write down their experience and publish them in forums. We don't want to ruin that with a strict storyline. Instead quests will give the player some cool SciFi bits that they can weave into their story."

Terrain & Terraforming: BE

- Since BE uses the CIV5 graphics engine, the terrain is "flat". The terrain has a clear structure and each tile consists of a fixed terrain type and cannot be changed. Terraforming is gone, so interaction is limited by building farms, mines and the like.

Cities & Expansion: BE - No more ocean cities, the player can only settle on land. Colonists are costly and outposts need 10-15 turns before they turn into real cities. Until then they are defenceless and must be protected and supplied.

Units & Upgrades: Why it was changed - (Will Miller) "Our first prototype actually contained a SMAC-like unit editor. However, that required too much micromanagement and was quite tedious. So we decided to go with a more linear upgrade system that made more fun and felt more like CIV."

"Hey guise, our game isn't totally not a mod of Civilization V. No, I'm serious, anything remotely interesting that could make our game don't look like a mod of CiV 5 was removed but it's still a totally new game, true story. We just cut anything worthwhile in the game and substitute it with a spreadsheet with +5% here, +5% bonus in there to preserve your fun, true story." Jesus, even Fall from Haven and caveman2cosmos, play more different from Civ IV than this from Civilization V. Okay bland factoryFiraxis you make Josh Sawyer look like an amateur on the ending the fun skill.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

the guy said his favourite civ was revolutions. what did you expect?

 

[Siobhan]

This game is retarded. The ideas behind it are retarded. The devs are probrably retarded too, or being directed by retards (like what happened to that guy designing NuXCOM).

The truly outlandish part is the "reasons" they give for the changes. It all boils down to "we did X because we thought X was a good idea" without explaining why X would make for a more enjoyable game. There's only two possible conclusions: a) they were too lazy to change anything from Civ5 and are simply bullshiting in this interview, b) retarded devs indeed.

 

[oscar]

"We removed all these features because of laziness/engine constraints/stupidity but you should actually be thanking us"

 

[DeepOcean]

It is a pity you don't see any decent developer interested doing a kickstarter for a sci fi 4x (what is really crazy if you think about that. 4x aren't exactly games that require a ton of resources in animation or 3d assets or massive scripting for a specific storyline.). If, at least, some team did a good take on an Alpha Centauri spiritual sequel because after Civ V success among the apes, there is little hope that 2k won't force Firaxis to make dumb down shit after dumb down shit.

 

[Destroid]

It is a pity you don't see any decent developer interested doing a kickstarter for a sci fi 4x (what is really crazy if you think about that. 4x aren't exactly games that require a ton of resources in animation or 3d assets or massive scripting for a specific storyline.). If, at least, some team did a good take on an Alpha Centauri spiritual sequel because after Civ V success among the apes, there is little hope that 2k won't force Firaxis to make dumb down shit after dumb down shit.

Kerberos might give it a crack after they are done with their tactical game. Stardock have enough money to do it on their own and no-one else with a name seems interested in making scifi 4x games.

 

[DeepOcean]

It is a pity you don't see any decent developer interested doing a kickstarter for a sci fi 4x (what is really crazy if you think about that. 4x aren't exactly games that require a ton of resources in animation or 3d assets or massive scripting for a specific storyline.). If, at least, some team did a good take on an Alpha Centauri spiritual sequel because after Civ V success among the apes, there is little hope that 2k won't force Firaxis to make dumb down shit after dumb down shit.

Kerberos might give it a crack after they are done with their tactical game. Stardock have enough money to do it on their own and no-one else with a name seems interested in making scifi 4x games.

Stardock infuriates me, one of the few companies that have money and is interested on making turn based strategy games but don't have a drop of talent on it... Isn't Kerberos the guys responsible for that mess, Sword of the Stars II? Damn, we are between the dumb down and the shovelware, what a fucking destiny...

 

[Space Satan]

CivFanatics is an identical twin of Bioware forums. Not a retarded twin because they are equally disgusting with their mindless praise of anything bio or firaxis throw at them.

 

[tindrli]

CivFanatics is an identical twin of Bioware forums. Not a retarded twin because they are equally disgusting with their mindless praise of anything bio or firaxis throw at them.

maybe they should change their name in Firaxisfanatics

 

[Cyberarmy]

It is a pity you don't see any decent developer interested doing a kickstarter for a sci fi 4x (what is really crazy if you think about that. 4x aren't exactly games that require a ton of resources in animation or 3d assets or massive scripting for a specific storyline.). If, at least, some team did a good take on an Alpha Centauri spiritual sequel because after Civ V success among the apes, there is little hope that 2k won't force Firaxis to make dumb down shit after dumb down shit.

I have been waiting for a game like this since KS become popular...

Edit: And that Gamestar preview killed my interest (which was already near zero) in this game. This is just a medicore Civ5 mod.

 

[sser]

I have to admit I feel a little bad for the guy having to explain why they did X and Y things because almost every single one of his responses is glaringly bullshit.

 

[tindrli]

I have to admit I feel a little bad for the guy having to explain why they did X and Y things because almost every single one of his responses is glaringly bullshit.

to tell the truth i have never ever saw so many bad excuses on one place

 

[Space Satan]

Might

1. Survivalism
+25 strength and ranged strength against alien life forms.

2. Scavenging
Earn 100% of alien lifeform's strength as science after killing it.
Earn 35 science from destroying alien nests.

3. Adaptive Tactics
+50% experience from combat.

4. Military Industrial Complex
+15% production towards military units

5. Liberation Army
After conquering an enemy Outpost, automatically found an Outpost of your own in its place

6. Public Safety
+0,25 Health for every military unit under your command.

7. Adaptive Sciences
+20% affinity points for researching technologies


Prosperity

6. Pathfinders
Explorer units can build 3 additional Expeditions


11. (unknown name)
+1 production for every basic (???)
+1 food for every basic (???)
+1 energy for every basic (???)



Knowledge

1. Foresight
+10% science when healthy

2.Field Research
Earn 50 science from finishing Expeditions

3.Social Mores
Each city generates +0,25 culture per population

4. Laboratory Apprenticeship
Each city generates +0,25 science per population

5. Creative Class
Earn extra culture equal to 50% net positive health

7. Applied Aesthetics
Earn extra energy equal to 50% of the culture you generate

12. Information Warfare
Recruit 1 new Covert Agent

13. Learning Centers (?)
+5 science from Academy improvements
+3 culture from Manufactory improvements


Industry

3. Central planning
+5 enegy in the capital

6. Investment
Earn 1% of stockpiled energy every turn up to 50 energy

8. Profiteering (?)
+0,5 health for every trade unit under your command

Synergies

Tier one broad synergies for every five values in one tier
1. 1 free virtue
2. +10% growth, production and energy in the capital
3. 1 free tech

Might synergies
1. +5% strength and ranged strength

Knowledge synergies
1. +10% culture in all cities

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

please, stop.

 

[Jaedar]

http://www.twitch.tv/firaxisgames/b/555567295

So I just watched this. This is such a shameless CiV mod its not even funny.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

I... I just don't feel anything.

D1P retracted.

 

[Azira]

Remove from inventory?

 

[Keshik]

Units & Upgrades: Why it was changed - (Will Miller) "Our first prototype actually contained a SMAC-like unit editor. However, that required too much micromanagement and was quite tedious. So we decided to go with a more linear upgrade system that made more fun and felt more like CIV."

Sounds like they just made a bad editor rather than the concept sucking, if it required micromanagement. Disappointing.

 

[DeepOcean]

"I made a horrible cake, so all cakes are horrible and taste bad so I won't make cakes anymore." This argument is so disingenuous that every time I hear a developer covering his ass with this bullshit I lose any respect for the idiot.

 

[Jaedar]

You didn't even need to use the unit editor in SMAC. The game autopopulated it fairly well when you advanced in tech. Only thing you needed to do was add the special traits pretty much. Or if you wanted nautical spies or stuff like that.