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Skyrim - Bethesda, you should be very, very proud.

Discussion in 'Bethesda Game Studios' started by Twinfalls, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Mortmal Arcane

    Mortmal
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    It has hotkeys, just have to favorite them and press your keyboard number, its just well hiddeen and not explained anywhere, thats very surprising when they even explain you how to walk.
    As for switching spells , one destructive spell and you are good to go, i dont requires any switching, and then again charging in and powerattacking with 2H axe is all of the strategy required in skyrim.Oh you have options, you could stealth and shoot arrows , you could use small an faster weapon,, all of this less efficient.
     
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  2. CrunchyHemorrhoids Prophet

    CrunchyHemorrhoids
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    Might as well precise that you hotkey a favorited item through the favorites menu, not the inventory menu.
     
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  3. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    Gotta say DraQ, that comment about missing hotkeys was almost Skyway-like in its ignorace.

    I found switching between two spells, drawing your sword, switching to a shout and then using a power to flow more freely than in both Morrowind and Oblivion.
     
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  4. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Oblivion perhaps, but in Morrowind you had both 9 hotkeys and ability to switch to previous/next weapon or spell alphabetically, so you could have dozens of spells pretty much at hand, not just 8 or 9.
     
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  5. Mangoose Arcane Patron

    Mangoose
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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
    Actually casting as a battlemage was easier in Oblivion because you could cast with both hands equipped, no? I forget.
     
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  6. The Wizard Educated

    The Wizard
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    the "cast with weapon in hand" was not exactly a needed feature. sure, was nice, but not worth sacrificing "next/previous spell".
     
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  7. baronjohn Cipher

    baronjohn
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    Then again in Morrowind you had tons of spells and effects. In Skyrim you have a couple that you just spam over and over. There's no need to for easy way of switching.
     
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  8. Xi Arcane

    Xi
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    Ok, im just going to say this. Skyrim is easily bethesdas buggiest product. It is chock full of bugs galore. Tons of issues, and the PS3 is looking like a possible class action lawsuit due to performance problems.

    Decent game, super bugged, final verdict.
     
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  9. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    Actually it's one of theirs least buggy games. 1.3 patch is nearly crash free, which is more than you can say about theirs previous fully patched games.
     
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  10. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Yes.

    I think one thing skyrim did right was disallowing casting with two weapons or weapon and shield, but I think you should be able to cast with 2h weapon, provided you aren't swinging or blocking at the moment - it's not like you need both hands to just hold a 2h weapon and the way it is in Skyrim cripples those who would want to combine magic and 2h skill.

    Well, yeah.

    And then there is MCP option allowing for casting without having to switch from combat stance. It still takes about 3s, of course, but it does improve the feel when using a cast when used weapon or shield as you actually hold it.

    That's why magic in MW was actually cool while in Skyrim it only looks fancy.

    A bit of a shame, needing corpses to raise undead was a nice move.
     
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  11. tennishero Novice

    tennishero
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    BS

    ourage is vital for companions
    heal and fast heal because they have 2 different effects
    class specific effect- i.e bretons
    magic tthat raises armour
    conjuring
    2 shouts usually

    thats just for one build and ive left out a ton of other usefull spells you can quick select
     
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  12. crufty Arcane

    crufty
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    Thieves quest so far is incline. The party ai is good. I do wish party ai could snipe and backstab too, instead of yelling "hey check me out" in a cave filled with falmer.

    Nice, mercer level has a trap that is actually fatal.

    Bonus points for the floating carcass logic...eerie.

    On to the next step re thieves guild...I like how well the thieves guild quest spirals into other quests, building a story.

    The decline bit is...re thieves guild, there doesn't appear but one way to resolve. Sneak or combat isnt really multiple choice, there does not appear to be diplomatic or subdue options.

    Show Spoiler
    when mercer cast a spell that caused my party to fight amongst themselves, a staff of calm i found had no impact. I'm not sure if it's because the party is too high level but I was wondering if the game would even let calm work in that case. I also didn't like how my party can't die so their sparring was a bit meh. If they could die then maybe id be worried . a paralysis spell would have been better though I like where the game was going. i think the game would be improved if when a plot critical npc died the game ended, even better would be alternative scenarios for plot critical npc death. Npcs that should be hard to kill should have body guards, ie maven.
     
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  13. crufty Arcane

    crufty
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    One thing I wish we would see is literacy perks tied to speech craft. Then books / signs / spell scrolls could be written in diff languages, etc. if one didn't have the right perk, then all one would see is symbols, runes or sigils etc. I would hope some builds begin completely illiterate!

    The other is some kind of protege system.

    So instead of starting a new character, say at level ten I get the ability to make a protege, and have them accompany me to say, their level five. The I could assign quests to them, so that my leet thief isn't off doing companion quests. Instead, we switch, and I go from level 35 thief assasin to 5 fighter . This would expand on gameplay, without the drudgery of going through rote sequences. Seems like if done right, would really open the door up. A solid reason to own multiple properties if giving protégés a bed was also a requirement. Also, would be a really good reason to do radiant quests..to build up the protege.


    Mounted combat is really needed. Could and should be perk based. Ie, archery 50 - mounted combat [ 1 / 5 ] or whatever.

    Bring back carts! Got the horse now..

    in combat when I subdue an opponent, it would be nice to accept their yield, maybe even requring them to give up their loot, and then have that person peacefully leave the field of play, a bloodless kill of sorts.

    Some other nits...fast traveling to the center of bandit camps suck. Ai that isn't stealth when I am...and no tactical options for ai to dial it down (maybe a speech craft perk here ) means travelling with ai companions is like travelling with the berserker from the movie 'Erik the Viking'. Doing fine doing fine then "theres a bandit camp up ahead"

    :yeah:

    Without protégés nor the ability to hire smiths I'm basically left with abusing smithing and enchanting or doing without (I have selected the latter ). So "for hire" construction would be nice complete with raw material provisions, waiting for time, and even odds for inferior work!

    Love the thieves guild quest line. That was a lot of fun and the feeling was just right. Also, I can safely say not every Main quest is level scaled. Well done on that dept! I recent had an easy go at a dungeon...and it should have been, for my character. Had I dived right in from the beginning, it would have been tough. But after some time, and 20 levels...nice!
     
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  14. Drakron Arcane

    Drakron
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    Ok, what is the Agent of Subterfuge power again?

    I would say he cheats with using Agent of Shadow to turn invisible as well but then again, he hints he used the Skeleton Key to unlock his potential, considering he IS a Nightingale ... both powers are something he can technically use.

    Paralysis on the other hand is NOT, its a a Expert level Alternation spell that costs 396 mama ... do I really need to say how UNLIKELY he would be a Expert Alternation Mage?

    And yes, I know about the arrow trick but at least it was a poison.

    Also diplomatic? at that time ... REALLY? and subdue for what? I think the name is THIEVES Guild not KIDNAPPERS Guild and neither Delvin or Vex offers jobs that have you subdue someone.

    Wait ... that whole thing simply DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!! Skyrim does not have classes as levels are raised by either using it, teachers, books or the very rare reward.

    Being lv25 is DIFFERENT that being Lv5 and your Health/Mana/Stamina scores will be higher and skills also require different values to level ... its easy to raise then when they are at low level but when you hit, say 70 in "One-Handed Weapons" its not going to just take killing 6-7 bandits to gain a new level.

    The game is not forgiving if you fucked up character building and have a tougher time but asking for a mechanic that in essence means "Character Respec" is saying there should be NO CONSEQUENCES on how you created your character.
     
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  15. Luzur Prestigious Gentleman Good Sir

    Luzur
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    LOL yesterday i was doing the "trap a dragon on the balcony" main quest, and in the middle of the fight that messenger guy shows up to give me a message.

    he was like "hey ive been looking for you, lesse i had a message here for you, hmm where is it, i know i had it here just a kinute ago, ah there ya go"

    meanwhile the guards where getting their ass handed to them by the Dragon along with the Jarl's bodyguard.

    and i was "DAMMIT I AM IN THE MIDDLE OF A GODDAMN DRAGONDERP FIGHT SHIT FLYING PEOPLE DYING EVERYWHERE GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE WITH YOUR GODDAMN LETTER STALKER"
     
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  16. crufty Arcane

    crufty
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    Show Spoiler

    1. The entire thieves guild quest line is non violent: it's definitely not the assassins guild. In fact, I spent most of the level not fighting, because I was vastly overpowered
    2. The "get respect" quest line had multiple options. One of them was subdue. With my fists.
    3. there is a cavern filled with falmer, dwarven constructs etc. persuade?
    4. Go obi wan kenobi: you can't win mercer. Hand it over the key and you can go free. ( bonus : maybe a dark brotherhood tie in? )
    5. Why couldnt I lump mercer, have him beg for his life, and then have me decide if he lives or dies? If I select death, some kind of dexter style assination "ssh ssh ssh ssshhhhhhhhhh *orgasmic tremor* as the place falls apart.

    :yeah:

    If I restart the game, it's character respec with no consequences. What I am advocating is a way to keep quests themed for characters, and a way to build a character to help the main pc. Maybe the main pc is locked into certain quests...main etc.

    Take my current pc. She is a bard. Thieves guild master and nightingale. Do the companion, magic user, other quest lines make sense for her? Much less dark brotherhood? How about the more minor quests that maybe don't make sense for a guildmaster to go off and do?


    So what do I do? Restart? Blah. Then I have to go do all that other stuff all over again. Words of power, etc, the beginning etc.

    But...what if I could make another char, who Coexists in my game world, has to live with my consequences, but has these other skills? And i switch over to that other character periodically. It would be another resource to manage: gold for upkeep, got to keep the protege alive, protege has to buy stuff off main pc, etc.


    I think it would add a new dimension of challenge, if done right.

    I had my first bandit chief run away from me in fear yesterday, in this trench of sorts . As snow lazily fell, drew my bow, released. Pthunk...Crit strike. Guy goes flying, sliding along the snowy ground,coming to a rest, slumped against the wall. i jog to go loot, inspect. Arrow Thru back of head. Killed in cold blood...Ahh...avatar, I thought. I wouldn't do that! Where is the guardian when you need him! Saw...No glass armor. No magic weapons. Just a handful of gp. I'm level 25. Just some dude camping out at the wrong place at the wrong time, who decided to run for his life after I butchered his mates.

    Fun game!
     
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  17. Drakron Arcane

    Drakron
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    Its not, "Dampened Spirits" forces the player in combat and just because you can turn invisible at will because you are level 99.9 does not change the fact the quest is designed with combat in mind and "Speaking With Silence" is even worst since its a dungeon crawl with a companion.

    Its still beating someone up to a inch of their life.

    Yes, my point were you cannot totally avoid combat and the so called "talking your way" cannot be applied.

    The fact BOTH times he tried that with Vader he ended up with a NOPE, telling.

    5. Why couldnt I lump... [/spoiler]

    Because he is not going with a fist fight and the character have no intention of surrendering, nothing on the character even hints that he would do that.

    You are pretty much asking him to act out of character right at the end, not to say the other two would also react and NPCs do not exist to be Yes Men to the player.

    Except the consequence of STARTING OVER.

    A respec allows a character to be able to do everything as Skyrim almost allows that were the exception is taking a side in the Civil War (Legion-Stromcloaks).

    Also there is the question if Characters should be allowed to do everything, in Daggerfall it was normal to join several Guilds just because of their services and the only thing that prevented advancement was lacking the skill level requirement, one could be Archmage by just patrolling the Guildhalls.

    You are asking for TES to completely abandon its roots.

    Bards are a hybrid class that takes its main skills from pretty much everything.

    Why should the Winterhold Collage make no sense? Bards specialize in Illusion as the Companions is barely a Fighter Guild and even the Fighter Guild just "fights".

    The Dark Brotherhood always been a matter of taste, there is no reason to why any class could not join the Dark Brotherhood.

    Then dont, there is a reason to why they are optional but really, the Thieves Guild offers jobs and if you are "too busy" being behind a desk why should you get payed for going nothing? You want to restore the Thieves Guild then WORK FOR IT instead turning your nose because its "beneath you", heck you are only made Grandmaster AFTER you complete several of those quests anyway.

    Same applies for the Dark Brotherhood, Winterhold Collage and Companions ... those are requests, in Winterhold Collage they are even personal requests.

    You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

    Its because of THAT lazy attitude we get RPGs were the consequence is at best cosmetic because god forbids if the player cannot do everything.
     
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  18. My Name is Novice

    My Name is
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    The glitches are more fun than the actual game.
     
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  19. SerratedBiz Arcane

    SerratedBiz
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    That bear is like, "I'm tripping balls, man."
     
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  20. Heresiarch Prophet

    Heresiarch
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    LOL wtf

    While normally game glitches are annoying but in Skyrim glitches are actually funny features that even the developers are reluctant to fix.
     
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  21. Twinfalls Erudite

    Twinfalls
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    Right. 95 hours in.

    Yes, Vault Dweller and others have given a solid list of shortcomings. But you know what? If the damn thing could provide a fucking challenge, it could still be great. And now, it finally has.

    Either there was a glitch and my difficulty was not actually Master, or the scaling kicked in abruptly. Whatever. I've emerged from two dungeons with no health or magic potions left, and barely alive after having to save and re-load several times. Single enemies can be tough, but groups of them diabolical. Yet wolves, ordinary bandits, spiders etc are still dispatched easily - which is good. I've been mostly playing solo and leaving companions behind. That may have to change if the difficulty ramps up further.

    In the main quest, you will enter a large Dwemer cathedral. At one point you will look up and see the vertical scale is absolutely breath-taking, the tallest in any TES game (or any game I can remember for that matter). This dungeon was the most difficult so far. I was loaded with potions going in, but ran out of them. Those of you who say 'you just have to spam more potions' are not being accurate about Skyrim. As your health increases and you face more difficult enemies, the health you get from each potion decreases. I had to:

    - lure enemies into traps
    - lure enemies into fighting each other (Falmer and Dwarven mechanoids for example)
    - use every shout available
    - flee when possible.

    Here are some other things that I've experienced:

    - getting disarmed;

    - setting oil on fire to damage enemies;

    - a dragon encounter which played out differently after dying and re-loading. The first time it crashed and slid, leaving a trail of wreckage. The second, it did not. The Forsaken enemies in this battle who I (and my two companions) had to deal with, along with the dragon, made this a seriously tough encounter.

    - a trap burned me to ashes in one hit;

    - Companions - who take orders and can be placed. Rudimentary, yes. But nevertheless: Incline.

    -Creatures descended from the ceiling behind me in a cave;

    -Stormcloak soldiers warn me to leave the vicinity of forts they occupy, with swords raised;

    -Not everything is out there to attack me alone. They can be docile, attack if I go too close (giants), and will also attack each other. I've seen plenty of fights going on already and left them to it.

    -Foes, in effect, dodge. Whereas Morrowind had to-hit rolls, at least this time they swing rapidly to different positions around the player.

    Vault Dweller you've said it's irrelevant that no other golden-age RPG game-world has survived. I don't agree. I think it's highly relevant. I'm sure Kurt Kuhlmann and Bruce Nesmith would have preferred a Daggerfall style chargen. But they know the deal. There is no doubt Zenimax will have focus-group testing to please its shareholders.

    Yet Todd Howard and co have pulled off a lone, solitary present-day anomaly. Where Ultima bit the dust long ago, the Elder Scrolls is alive. This is miles ahead of Dragon Age, because despite the stronger C&C in that game, it simply didn't have the quality of lore and back-story heritage that Skyrim preserves and expands. Nowhere near it. And what's better - this open world, or Bioware's perennial hubs-and-tunnels? People here have complained about the quest markers. However: locations are now somewhat difficult to find again, as you are forced to negotiate your way around the various mountains.

    For anyone who likes open-world exploration, this must be amongst the top, once size and technical presentation are taken into consideration. Despite the hundreds of locations, there is no visual clutter of structures. It is just majestic. Yes VD, it lacks the gritty and more authentic germanic atmosphere of Gothic. Yes, Whiterun is a little bit Disney, and Solitude a bit 'Ye olde Medieval Fayre'. But take it as a whole. For the first time since Daggerfall, one gets that feeling looking out, that there is an entire world there to explore. And unlike Daggerfall, the world is actually worth exploring (remember Daggerfall's wilderness was actually useless to wander through, cities actually glitched up if you travelled by foot or horse to them.) This is not a mere 'hiking simulator'.

    I love that there's a civil war progressing and forts that I was previously warned to go away from are now occupied by friendlies. I love that dungeons are interesting again. The Dwemer cathedral I mentioned before had a visual history. Inside, ancient dwarven structures are crumbled and grown over with plants. Deeper in, spaces are occupied by grotesque Falmer structures built more recently. I love that windowlights in the Nord houses are designed to remind the player of Daggerfall. And that Windhelm and its palace are strongly remeniscent of Arena.

    Yes, it'd be great if Skyrim had chargen with real depth. Yes, it'd be fantastic if you needed certain skills to enter guilds, and you had to keep doing quests or lose your standing with them. Yes, it'd be great if, after I become Thane of Whiterun, or a senior position in the Imperial Forces, I get some say in the strategy of the war. It'd be really great if Stormcloaks and Imperials weren't fixed at too low a level (my biggest gripe with the game frankly). Yes, it'd be great if the MQ had multiple branches and endings like Daggerfall. Yes, it'd be nice if we could climb and levitate and if quests were longer and deeper.

    But had those things been in place, this would have been outright incredible. It's not. But it's a fucking great game regardless. Suppose we had never heard of Bethesda or TES, and this fell out of the sky with 'Looking Glass Software' attached to it. This board would be in an extended paroxysm of ardour. The voice acting works well - it's of a high quality. The dialogue is efficient, but not dumbed down. The backstory in the books you find are of classic TES standard - right at the top.

    I stand by my initial impressions. The fact that this is a massive mainstream release with advertising on bus-stops in major cities, is something for Bethesda to be proud of. If anyone really thinks this is just a craven cave-in to the market, I submit to you one "Gothic 4" for consideration.
     
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  22. Even though I agree Skyrim is pretty great, that makes me wonder if you're trolling. :M
     
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  23. Kraszu Prophet

    Kraszu
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    Too bad that the basic combat is still potion spamming with obvious timing the enemy had hit your shield? Now he will be defenceless for 2sec. What you had listed are gimmicks, can be added to decent combat but they can't replace it.

    To bad that exploration is redeem pointless by level scaling, and no good loot. You also are discourage to go to any dungeon because the odds are that you will get a quest related to it that will require you to go there again.
     
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  24. Majestic47 Learned

    Majestic47
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    I kinda agree :lol: with Twinfalls, I mean.

    Level scaling and loot is valid complaint - but the last part, I don't quite get it. What's the problem with quest related dungeons? How does it discourage you from exploring?
     
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