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Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

Erzherzog

Magister
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Jul 16, 2007
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Mid-Atlantic
Beautiful Clown Painting said:
The title of this thread should be changed to "Skyrim VS Morrowind". As it is, it makes us sound like supposedly edgy but really retarded and contrarian morons. No wonder preople don't give a shit about our opinion, first we had a poll about the best RPG of 2011 in october and now a huge thread called "Oblivion is better than Skyrim LOLOLOLOLOLL". And it's a shame because there's a good discussion going on in it when you pass the first pages of derp (and I do derp in those pages too).

But then that's also why I love the Codex, let's shoot ourselves in the foot once more for glory! ;)

(Yeah I know: fuck you BCP newfag decline and all that shit...)

At the same time, anyone worth posting on the codex is going to look through this topic enough to see that it's not simply a Skyrim bashing topic.
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
1,494
Morkar said:
So, people of fair codexia, what's the deal with the game? Is it considered to be good? Let's say as good as NV? Better? Or just Oblivion with some small tweaks? I confused...

The game is quite good so far (20 hours in and still only lvl 9). It's infinitely better than Oblivion, in every way, and most of the awful derp has been taken care of. I prefer FO:NV to it, it's more of a proper RPG to me. But still, it's far from bad. Even if they are really different games, I'd say that I'm beginning to like Skyrim as much as Morrowind, perhaps even a bit more, but I prefer to play more of it before being definitive about that.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Morkar said:
The game is fantastic--perhaps the best CRPG I have ever played. More than any other game, the combats make you feel like you are truly fighting for your life. The game world is impossibly detailed, and exploring the dungeons is the most immersive experience I've ever had playing a game. NPCs have real conversations with each other as you wander through cities. The quests, far from the mostly fetch-and-carry missions of Morrowind and Oblivion, are original and nuanced, and offer real role-playing choices. Unlike previous Elder Scrolls games, there are real dialogue options here (although not as extensive as in the Bioware/Interplay titles).

Shocking? It's not from me. It's from the crpgaddict. Here's the rest: Skyrim impressions

So, people of fair codexia, what's the deal with the game? Is it considered to be good? Let's say as good as NV? Better? Or just Oblivion with some small tweaks? I confused...

Wow, I'll take whatever this guy smoked...

However, it's massive incline from Oblivion, they actually have an art direction this time (and a good one, too).
UI is straight from console though. While usable it could have been so much better had they adjusted it for pc (and I mean really adapted it instead of just replacing the keybindings).

World so far feels more believable to me than in Oblivion, but I haven't played much yet.
Writing is still not that much better than what we usually get from Bethesda, but it has it's moments.

Overall, NV is definitely the better rpg with the better story, but you can have fun with Skyrim if you don't expect an hardcore rpg experience from it. Unless you can get it cheaper right now (like i did) I would wait a bit though until bugs have been fixed and some interesting mods are out. So far I would give it 75/100.
 

Nael

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Morkar said:
So, people of fair codexia, what's the deal with the game? Is it considered to be good? Let's say as good as NV? Better? Or just Oblivion with some small tweaks? I confused...

If you enjoyed Morrowind you will probably like it. My biggest gripe is the fucking awful writing and voice acting so I just turn off the voices, turn on subtitles, and skim through the shittastic dialogue.

EDIT: Oh yeah... And they still have left spears out. In a game where you will be spending a considerable amount of time fighting DRAGONS there are no SPEARS. WTFH IS THIS SHIT?
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,960
It's good if you enjoy dumbed-down next-gen action games with no stand-out features.
 

Medic

Scholar
Patron
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Jul 15, 2008
Messages
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Skyrim is a superb game for what it is.

Fallout NV = Skyrim, also both games have most terrible UI ever conceived.

Skyrim easily 75/100
 

azc

Novice
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
22
How does Skyrim compare to Morrowind?

Is it anywhere near as good?
 

Nael

Arcane
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azc said:
How does Skyrim compare to Morrowind?

Is it anywhere near as good?

As a hiking simulator it is as good or better than Morrowind. The dungeons i've been in so far remind me a bit of Daggerfall as far as atmosphere is concerned but more linear. The Dwemer structures hearken back to their MW counterparts.

The writing is inferior to MW as i stated earlier.
 

Mangoose

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
Erzherzog said:
Beautiful Clown Painting said:
The title of this thread should be changed to "Skyrim VS Morrowind". As it is, it makes us sound like supposedly edgy but really retarded and contrarian morons. No wonder preople don't give a shit about our opinion, first we had a poll about the best RPG of 2011 in october and now a huge thread called "Oblivion is better than Skyrim LOLOLOLOLOLL". And it's a shame because there's a good discussion going on in it when you pass the first pages of derp (and I do derp in those pages too).

But then that's also why I love the Codex, let's shoot ourselves in the foot once more for glory! ;)

(Yeah I know: fuck you BCP newfag decline and all that shit...)

At the same time, anyone worth posting on the codex is going to look through this topic enough to see that it's not simply a Skyrim bashing topic.
My general impression on this thread is Morrowind >> Skyrim >> Oblivion.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
381
Morrowind is one of my favorite games. I never could get into Oblivion or understand its hype. I played more of Fallout 3 and didn't like it.

All I'm hearing from this game is that it's more console-streamlined and more simulating than stimulating. That's fine. As long as games like Dark Souls, Two Worlds 2, the Witcher 2, and the assorted indie RPGs like the ones Basilisk games makes can copulate and thrive there's no reason to get butt-hurt.

I will not be playing Skyrim unless it's on a PS3 or Xbox 360 and I can get it used for $12. If you're going to brave the modding waters or pirate it then I salute you, but I'm not going to spend time and money on something that isn't worth it.

Skyrim isn't worth it for two reasons: 1. It's not better than stuff you can get on any platform ever released (I'll happily say this without having played the game, and I'll exclude the 3D0 and other nonsense), and 2. It'll make more money than all of the games mentioned above combined, multiplied by ten.

I look forward to playing Skyrim when it's worth it; they made it look good and play better than Oblivion, which is what everybody with a pulse was asking for. For what it's worth, there have been some butthurts complaining on the official forums that you can't look young or non-weathered and that's a sign that they've gone in the right direction in at least some ways. It's hard to kill dragons, and the world is interesting to explore and tinker with. The environment matters more and you can press more buttons. It's not fucking Fallout because it's not fucking Fallout.

Edit: As far as Morrowind is concerned; try playing the game correctly as a monk. It can be done, and it actually is the most versatile combat class in the entire game. TES games don't always work right, but when they do there is gold to be mined.
 

Monocause

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Sonic The Hedgehog said:
Skyrim isn't worth it for two reasons: 1. It's not better than stuff you can get on any platform ever released (I'll happily say this without having played the game, and I'll exclude the 3D0 and other nonsense), and 2. It'll make more money than all of the games mentioned above combined, multiplied by ten.

I don't like jumping at other posters but these are, like, two most retarded reasons for not consuming something popular I've ever heard.
 

Raghar

Arcane
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azc said:
How does Skyrim compare to Morrowind?

When they would remove level scaling, and freezes, it would be decent. Morrowind would have some advantages anyway.

Nael said:
The writing is inferior to MW as i stated earlier.
The writing is 14 years old like.
 
Joined
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Messages
381
Monocause said:
Sonic The Hedgehog said:
Skyrim isn't worth it for two reasons: 1. It's not better than stuff you can get on any platform ever released (I'll happily say this without having played the game, and I'll exclude the 3D0 and other nonsense), and 2. It'll make more money than all of the games mentioned above combined, multiplied by ten.

I don't like jumping at other posters but these are, like, two most retarded reasons for not consuming something popular I've ever heard.

Maybe it's the soul-defining experience of a lifetime that just cannot be missed right this second but I doubt it.

With limited resources and limited time I'd rather play Dark Souls. I don't mind being "jumped" for that reason. I'll play Skyrim when it's in bargain bins, patched, and has expansions that can be carefully sifted through for content. I'd say not devoting time/money to a guaranteed successful product that isn't as good as others is not only a good economic choice, but one that smacks of good taste. I'll happily digest my own flatulents for this reason*.


*Also, I'm going to play Skyrim. I'm not going to sit stewing in my chair for hours agonizing over the fact that it's going to win game of the year according to game trailers.com. Take your smarm elsewhere.
 

Xi

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Sonic The Hedgehog said:
Monocause said:
Sonic The Hedgehog said:
Skyrim isn't worth it for two reasons: 1. It's not better than stuff you can get on any platform ever released (I'll happily say this without having played the game, and I'll exclude the 3D0 and other nonsense), and 2. It'll make more money than all of the games mentioned above combined, multiplied by ten.

I don't like jumping at other posters but these are, like, two most retarded reasons for not consuming something popular I've ever heard.

Maybe it's the soul-defining experience of a lifetime that just cannot be missed right this second but I doubt it.

With limited resources and limited time I'd rather play Dark Souls. I don't mind being "jumped" for that reason. I'll play Skyrim when it's in bargain bins, patched, and has expansions that can be carefully sifted through for content. I'd say not devoting time/money to a guaranteed successful product that isn't as good as others is not only a good economic choice, but one that smacks of good taste. I'll happily digest my own flatulents for this reason*.


*Also, I'm going to play Skyrim. I'm not going to sit stewing in my chair for hours agonizing over the fact that it's going to win game of the year according to game trailers.com. Take your smarm elsewhere.

Dark souls is superior as a game, while Skyrim is superior as a fantasy world simulator(Which is really what TES became). If you like fantasy world simulators, you will like Skyrim. If you don't then pass on this experience. As a game, it's just nothing like the tightly designed, veteran appealing, system that Dark Souls offers.

Still, I think it's better than OB in almost every way, though I may change my mind after another 30 hours of play. (Strangely, I've already played Skyrim for more hours than I played OB. That has to mean something!)

:salute:
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
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May 3, 2011
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Quests in Skyrim have a really cool way of leading to each other. I got into a drinking contest with a guy at an inn (who wasn't there in the morning), had a "night to remember" and then woke up clear across the other side of the game world inside a temple. After bribing the priestess/paying for the damages, I decided to explore the back room of the temple. Inside I stumbled upon a ceremony and the priestesses there sent me on some quest to track down a prophetic child. Before leaving, I looked around and found a book mentioning an ancient sword - reading it started its own mini-quest to find the sword.

Upon reaching the town they thought the child was in, I learned that the child was kidnapped by cultists. On the way to the location she was being held at, I stumbled across a multi-stage dungeon and outdoor camp complete with the fabled sword from the book. A nearby tome on an altar mentioned something about a ritual at a nearby location, which I eventually found. Inside, there was a slot to fit the sword, which acted as a key. A door opened and revealed a large tomb area, where I fought a unique boss monster.

From there, I continued on and came across the fort where the cultists were holed up. Instead of going in the front, I found a back way in (more easily accessible after completing the above sequence due to the geography), killed their leader, and rescued the child to bring back to the priestess.

Point is, these are really cool, organic quests that grow out of exploring the game world - and I'm almost certain the way they flow from one to the other is completely intentional due to the way you come across them. The quest design itself, nothing special, but I'll be damned if this stuff isn't interesting all the same. More than any other Bethesda game I think Skyrim has really managed to give you interesting reasons to explore, and then gives you interesting stuff to do, locations to visit etc. I highly recommend switching off the quest compass in the game's INI files, as it entirely changes the game and the way you play it, for the better. For all the things you can say against this game, this is genuinely good open-world design.
 

DiverNB

Liturgist
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Jun 11, 2007
Messages
472
I'm having more fun than I thought I would so far. I wish it had the amount of dialogue that Morrowind had on certain subjects, but it is at least better than Oblivion.

That said, the VA's still need a lot of work. At times when there should be fear, urgency, or joy, their voices fall terribly flat, often bringing down the mood of the entire moment.

Combat is improved, especially magic (My full mage character doesn't feel gimped, and I don't have to power game / exploit like in Morrowind to be effective)

Dungeons seem to have much more thought put into them, as well as other random locations around the world. Almost every location I've explored has a little bit of flavor with journals, puzzles, etc.

I'm in the College of Winterhold now, and as some posters here have said, it feels like it's almost too much too fast. While I'm not asking to mop floors, I think the progression could be handled a little better.

So far I will give the game a 3/5. It's enjoyable, but there are some things before it becomes a good or great game imo. Hopefully Bethesda will keep improving.
 

Stinger

Arcane
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
1,366
Shit, that's pretty crazy.

Ok, sure, Skyrim might be a good game after all (still doubt that's true though) but if it is it certainly wasn't for the (nonexistant) RPG component of the game. And that's all the 'RPG developers' are going to see.

1 month from now "Bioware- We want Skyrim's audience!"
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
381
Xi said:
Dark souls is superior as a game, while Skyrim is superior as a fantasy world simulator(Which is really what TES became). If you like fantasy world simulators, you will like Skyrim. If you don't then pass on this experience. As a game, it's just nothing like the tightly designed, veteran appealing, system that Dark Souls offers.

Still, I think it's better than OB in almost every way, though I may change my mind after another 30 hours of play. (Strangely, I've already played Skyrim for more hours than I played OB. That has to mean something!)

:salute:

TES is back :thumbsup:
 

Tel Prydain

Augur
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May 31, 2010
Messages
123
No one cares what this lurking newfag thinks, but I'm going to tell you anyhow.
I don’t trust Bethesda. Morrowind was average (okay, just not great) and Oblivion was an abomination. Fallout 3 was hit and miss, an interesting game, a bad RPG, a good generic post-apocalyptic hiking simulator and a shocking Fallout game.
Therefore I’m surprised at just how much I’m enjoying Skyrim. After 4 days off work to play, I’ve barely explored even 10% of the map and I’m only 3 missions into the ‘story’.

Short version: Skyrim fixes Oblivion’s biggest shortfalls.
Oblivion was so damn generic. Dungeons were built out of stock sections, so similar you’d swear it was procedurally generated. Identical ruins were scattered throughout the world, identical each time you found one. The world itself was bland and cookie-cutter as it could be.
The loot was generic –all the items were too much alike, and without any unique items there was little reward for marching down the bottom of a dungeon. You’d likely only find the same randomly generated items you’d find in any chest in the world.
The spells were generic – because spellcrafting let you create your own spells. The obvious problem it had was that being able to craft any spell you can imagine means that no spell is unique. If there are no unique spells, then you have no compelling rewards to give wizards.
Characters were generic… and nothing beyond personal dedication stopped the characters becoming a samey mish-mash of skills.
Even the gameplay was generic. Level scaling meant that every battle was an equally generic challenge – no mater where you were exploring.

In Skyrim there is something new and exciting around every corner. The different sections of the world all feel very different. Swamps, mountain-tops, plains, hot pools, tundra… the wildlife, the plant life, the monsters, the environment is all noticeably unique.
Level scaling isn’t gone, but much of it has been fixed. There are strange and dangerous places out there that selectively level or don’t level at all… as anyone that stumbled into a giant camp can attest. Dungeons have set levels (say 1-7 or 20-30) – that scale somewhat, but not over their own minimum or maximum. Sometimes you’ll find that the area is suspiciously ‘spot on’ for your level, but you can still find areas far above or below your level.
Braving a low level area makes you feel god-like, while braving a high level one gives you a chance to get your hands on gear much better then anything else you might find. And that’s because…
Loot in dungeons is a lot better. They now offer a guaranteed mixture of non-levelled loot that is suited to the difficulty of the dungeon and some random worthwhile leveled loot. Braving an area well above your level lets you get you hands on whatever non-levelled high-level gear is stored within. And unique and legendary items (that would be impossible to craft yourself) hidden throughout the world give you additional reason to delve into the dungeons.
I’ll always remember my first dungeon in Oblivion had a note with a little backstory in it… and it hinted at connections in the city… links that weren’t actually in the game. That’s the only dungeon with a backstory I found in Oblivion – Imagine my disappointment when there were never any others with an interesting premise. In Skyrim most of the dungeons have some sort of a story if you look around for it, and if there is a note that hints to connections in a city, then that thing that t’s hinting at is damn well there.
The dungeons themselves are much more interesting this time. There are still the odd generic cave corridor, but a lot more work has gone into lighting and decorating different locations to create unique areas to explore. And many of the areas have massive unique sections that reward your for exploring.
Spellcrafting is gone – and I hate that we lost it. But that opens the door to hunting out rare and unique spells. It means that mages have something to aspire and look forward to. Not to mention the new dynamic of combining or duel-casting spells.
And while I’m still grumpy at the total lack of character attributes, the new perk system almost makes up for it. When it comes to effectiveness the perks are far more important than the skills are. I’ve read that the ‘soft level cap’ is about 60-70. At that level you’ve maxed all your skills… but you’ve only been able to get 60-70 of the over 200 perks. It means that even if you max out all your skills, no two characters need ever be alike. You can be the ultimate wizard, thief or fighter – but you can’t be all three.

The world is well-built and sensible in a way Fallout 3 was not. Each capital I’ve visited is unique visually, but also in how it works. One is a mining city, one a trading centre, one an agricultural city. There are a few “what the hell are those two locations doing so close”, but they aren’t so jarring as they were in previous games. And in a few cases they are even explained (“Yo – that area up the hill is freaken me out, cause it’s so close. Can you deal to it?”)

There have been some great moments with the ‘new’ radiant system, which seems to do what the old radiant was always supposed to do: Create a living world.
I’ve been berated for littering, told off for acting a fool, asked to stop shouting in the city, been handed back a sword I dropped because ‘I think you lost this’.
At one stage I was going to hand in a quest, in a small town – one that had no walls or loading screen. As I arrived a random, unscripted dragon swooped down and attacked the town, destroying two of the guards with flame breath…. And then the bugger landed, picked up the quest giver in its mouth and then threw him out off into the far distance. I was just like, “well… I guess I’m not getting paid then…” Brightside: I was able to retrieve a cash reward from the guy’s corpse when I found it, much much later.

Melee is still utter rubbish, stealth is still dodgy. Sometimes it seems like a great RPG – sometimes it feels like a terrible combat game with a sub-par RPG tacked on. But there have been so many awesome moments when the game has surprised me; an odd reaction to something I was doing, an amazing unique area deep in a dungeon, unscripted dragon vs giant fights, being accursed of being a glory hog when I turned up just at the end of an unscripted NPC battle…. Time will tell if this gets old and I’m eventually able to see through the illusion, but for now I’m really enjoying it.


tl;dnr?
:incline:
 

Stinger

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sea said:
I highly recommend switching off the quest compass in the game's INI files, as it entirely changes the game and the way you play it, for the better. For all the things you can say against this game, this is genuinely good open-world design.

Just noticed this point, so you're saying that the game can be played without the quest compass? From the videos I've seen the quest dialogue is so sparse and there's barely any mention of the locations of these places (as opposed to Morrowind where you got full descriptions on where to go)...how do you play the game with the compass disabled, cause it looks like the game has been clearly designed around it?
 

attackfighter

Magister
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Jul 15, 2010
Messages
2,307
sea said:
Quests in Skyrim have a really cool way of leading to each other. I got into a drinking contest with a guy at an inn (who wasn't there in the morning), had a "night to remember" and then woke up clear across the other side of the game world inside a temple.

This is an attempt to rip off the quest in The Witcher 2 where you get drunk with the blue stripes and wake up with a tatoo. The difference is that The Witcher 2 was funny but in Skyrim it's just a half-assed attempt at shitty humour.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

Kamelåså!
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Stinger said:
sea said:
I highly recommend switching off the quest compass in the game's INI files, as it entirely changes the game and the way you play it, for the better. For all the things you can say against this game, this is genuinely good open-world design.

Just noticed this point, so you're saying that the game can be played without the quest compass? From the videos I've seen the quest dialogue is so sparse and there's barely any mention of the locations of these places (as opposed to Morrowind where you got full descriptions on where to go)...how do you play the game with the compass disabled, cause it looks like the game has been clearly designed around it?

You could grab the clairvoyance spell. Cast it, it'll point in the direction of your currently selected objective. Use it as a manual compass of sorts. It's still a bit of a quest compass, but at least you won't get a billion icons telling you what's just around the corner, spoiling the surprise.
 

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