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Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

theHiddenHand

Educated
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Apr 14, 2012
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37
Luzur said
too bad they listened to the wrong fans though...

yep

Commissar Draco said

Another evil of democracy than.

yep again.

Not a big fan of MMORPG so don't care if it lives or dies, I am like Switzerland on this; neutral
 

Wyrmlord

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By the way, they really need to get more innovative with the daedric artifacts in this series.

The Sanguine Rose serves the exact purpose it did in Daggerfall from 1996.

Making the same reward for each game for 15 continuous years? That's just a bankruptcy of ideas.
 

DraQ

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problem is that Guards often end up as annoyence when you get high enough level rather then something to be feared when you are Evil Darklord level 89 with full set Daedric armor and swords.
Not even that - just backpedal and keep swinging.

Given that you only get rep hit once guard's attack actually connect it's the way to fuck everyone over.

Also lycanthropy.

Another thing that Daggerfall has, which other TES games do not.

If you join a disreputable guild - Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood - and/or if you sink deep enough into the villain reputation and/or if you don't have a high personality - people stop talking to you. Completely! That is a terrible consequence in a game where you need to talk to people to find quest locations or to obtain work.

People know who you are, they don't like you, and they don't want anything to do with you. They already know that the last time you casually asked where someone lives, he ended up robbed or dead. You can't approach a single person, because they are shaking in fear at the sight of you. Words don't come out of their mouths, because they freeze. So simple, but so effective.
What if you're really fucking subtle with your killing or stealing? What if you don't let anything connect you with your crimes?

That's the problem I have with "people know you're in EEEVIIIL secretive guild and don't like it".

Sure, make it hard to avoid suspicion, sure kick players doing assassinations orc-style in the ass, but if you manage your crimes flawlessly, you shouldn't pay this kind of price. You already have paid your price - skill and effort involved in doing stuff perfectly right.

This is something which is totally missing and totally necessary in later TES games. There should be a negative consequence for the near impunity and abuse of power and privilege you get by being a high ranking assassin and thief. There is also a threshold point beyond which authorities don't care if you did your time, if you paid up for past crimes, or whatever. You commit too many serial crimes and they will kill you on sight.
Yeah, I liked how Daggerfall didn't magically reset your legal reputation once you've served your time.

Morrowind wasn't as good in this regard, but at least if you fucked up hard you had death penalty, not "serve your time and all is forgiven".

By the way, they really need to get more innovative with the daedric artifacts in this series.

The Sanguine Rose serves the exact purpose it did in Daggerfall from 1996.

Making the same reward for each game for 15 continuous years? That's just a bankruptcy of ideas.
Shit's got nothing on Holy Grail, mang.
 

Wyrmlord

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DraQ
Some of those elements are already there. In some form, I guess.

There were serious consequences other than prison time. You could get exiled from a province, and be told that if you ever return, you will be killed on sight. Same as Morrowind, right?

When I was in the Thieves Guild, I botched a robbery by bothering to kill the other competing Rogues who were in the room where I was stealing a gem. Whereas I was supposed to just get the gem and get out of there without entering confrontation with the other Rogues. Consequence was being told to get out of town and not getting paid. Now that is harsh.

Also, I think I was a pretty unsubtle assassin in that I had no problems with guard massacres once I killed the target in the Mages Guild or a Palace. Even though I had Invisibility and Stealth and could have left without a fight, I made the wrong choice, and I think the punishment was being known as a mass cop killer. Apparently, the game expects you to avoid killing guards and run away, irrespective of how strong you are. Maybe if I avoided fighting, this reputation loss would never happen. (That said, maybe the consequence is the same even if you avoid it?)
 

Wyrmlord

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On an unrelated note, Morrowind's Find the Dark Brotherhood quest was good. Damn good. Way better than the Oblivion or Skyrim equivalent, obviously, but also better than the Daggerfall one. A Brotherhood assassin comes to kill you. You tell the guards. They send you to Ebonheart, near Seyda Neen. The captain of the guard and a councillor mage advise sending you to the city of Mournhold on the mainland part of Morrowind, away from the volcanic island. Then you search around the fairly large city of Mournhold until you find a sewer entrance. Then it's a race in the branching sewer network to find them. Very well done.

Also, Morrowind had one very very simple, but very very interesting quest. A kidnapped tax collector is held in a Telvanni Wizard's home. You find the collector imprisoned in the basement. And you find a summoning room with Daedroth and Dwemer Centurion guarding a Telvanni Wizard. Ask him about his tax non-payment and his forced detention of the people there. The wizard tells you he was there in the town before the Imperial soldiers ever came. He was there before Gnisis was formed. He was there before the previous kingdom ruling the area was established. In his centuries of long living, he saw empires and kingdoms come and go in his area. And he doesn't owe them a single thing, because he was the one who settled there long before anyone else. And he could just kill everybody in town if he felt like it, Imperials included, but he doesn't do so, because he tolerates them. How can you argue against that - he was totally right. He wasn't under the town's protection or its mercy - it was the other way round.

I am saying all this, because I think my Morrowind thread was made whilst eclipsing all the good moments from the game. Truth be told, I still feel some discomfort at the slowness of the game - compared to the rapid pace of Daggerfall and Arena. But wow, these moments. Such as seeing Vivec for the first time and all that. What an only-one-of-its-kind game, even though I think it sucks.
 

Turjan

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On an unrelated note, Morrowind's Find the Dark Brotherhood quest was good. Damn good. Way better than the Oblivion or Skyrim equivalent, obviously, but also better than the Daggerfall one.
Well, the Morrowind quest is not really comparable to those in the other games, as the Dark Brotherhood is an opponent of the player in Morrowind. Morrowind's Dark Brotherhood equivalent are the Morag Tong.
 

Wyrmlord

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Absolutely. I meant as in the exposure or introduction to the group for the first time.
 

taxalot

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I look forward to the day where someone says Skyrim is better than TES Online, when everyone knows the latter is actually a much better game. This is going to be hilarious.
 

Turjan

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Absolutely. I meant as in the exposure or introduction to the group for the first time.
I know what you meant, but the comparison doesn't make any sense. The Dark Brotherhood doesn't technically even exist as faction in Morrowind, the game. Your only exposure may be some writ given to you during a Morag Tong quest. What you were describing was the beginning sequence of the first big expansion pack of the game, which better be a bit more special than a standard guild quest start.
 

Riel

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I don't agree at all with this thread's title, Skyrim is a modern days TES game and hence more of character-action game than a rpg at all but it is a vast improvement to Oblivion, forgeting that wicked interface of course (who the hell came up with the idea of those freaking constelations for skill treess?? not that the rest of the interface is any good, but man that tree is very likely the worst idea in the long history of utter interface failures, lmao(in that regard Oblivion was so MUUUUUUUCH better).
 

DraQ

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I don't agree at all with this thread's title, Skyrim is a modern days TES game and hence more of character-action game than a rpg at all but it is a vast improvement to Oblivion, forgeting that wicked interface of course (who the hell came up with the idea of those freaking constelations for skill treess?? not that the rest of the interface is any good, but man that tree is very likely the worst idea in the long history of utter interface failures, lmao(in that regard Oblivion was so MUUUUUUUCH better).

Interface-wise even Vi is much better.
:troll:
Though skill constellations are still by far the most ergonomic part of Skyrim's interface.


Also, I think I was a pretty unsubtle assassin in that I had no problems with guard massacres once I killed the target in the Mages Guild or a Palace. Even though I had Invisibility and Stealth and could have left without a fight, I made the wrong choice, and I think the punishment was being known as a mass cop killer. Apparently, the game expects you to avoid killing guards and run away, irrespective of how strong you are. Maybe if I avoided fighting, this reputation loss would never happen. (That said, maybe the consequence is the same even if you avoid it?)
Well, cop-killer reputation, or criminal reputation in general follows being successfully attacked by a guard.

A connecting attack capable of dealing damage triggers surrender prompt and reputation hit. If the attack doesn't connect because of whatever reason (sitting on a roof with a bow and cart full of arrows, backpedalling while swinging wildly or being a werewolf and having immunity to normal weapons), there is no prompt and no reputation hit IIRC.


Also, Morrowind had one very very simple, but very very interesting quest. A kidnapped tax collector is held in a Telvanni Wizard's home. You find the collector imprisoned in the basement. And you find a summoning room with Daedroth and Dwemer Centurion guarding a Telvanni Wizard. Ask him about his tax non-payment and his forced detention of the people there. The wizard tells you he was there in the town before the Imperial soldiers ever came. He was there before Gnisis was formed. He was there before the previous kingdom ruling the area was established. In his centuries of long living, he saw empires and kingdoms come and go in his area. And he doesn't owe them a single thing, because he was the one who settled there long before anyone else. And he could just kill everybody in town if he felt like it, Imperials included, but he doesn't do so, because he tolerates them. How can you argue against that - he was totally right. He wasn't under the town's protection or its mercy - it was the other way round.
Well, Baladas was quite a :bro: .

TBH the worst thing about Skyrim is that it unnecessarily drops a lot of interesting stuff. Spell customization? Gone. Levitation and waterwalk? Gone. Mysticism? Gone. Attributes? Gone. Spears/crossbows/thrown weapons? Gone.

With different spell types levitation would be thrilling and fairly balanced as master level alteration spell - requiring both hands and continuous cast. Why the fuck drop it if you could for the first time implement it without giving it combat utility? And I don't want to hear about walled in cities - you can specify max altitude, limit ability to levitate upwards and, as failsafe, implement soft barrier (such as air currents) blocking player's way and concealing ultimate barrier - invisible walls.

Why drop spears, if they would make *perfect* sense in a game where you battle dragons and giants?

Also dragons are disappointing - frequent, very poor AI and not much versatility. They are effectively cliffracers 2.0, except with much more "fuck your day" potential. Make them rarer, far,far more powerful and cunning, so that encountering one would become "FFFUUUU- I'm gonna die!" moment, rather than "FFFFUUU- I don't have time for this!" one would work far better. They should also be more inclined to save their own hides - it's all fine and dandy when you're an equivalent of an A-10 strafing a mediaval village, but you don't live up to millennia if you can't recognize when you're having your tail kicked.

Other than that Skyrim is surprisingly good. Especially after dismal turd that was oblivion.

I'm actually cautiously hopeful about future TES. Yeah, TESO will likely be a turd and lies outside my scope of interest anyway, but do notice that it's a prequel. It seems someone doesn't want to fuck up the status quo with derpy MMO, which implies future SP TES games.

Maybe all those monkeys will finally type up some Shakespeare.
 

abnaxus

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Here's hoping they finally move to Akavir. Tsaesci at least is a medieval Japan inspired setting, is it not?
 

Sul

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Here's hoping they finally move to Akavir. Tsaesci at least is a medieval Japan inspired setting, is it not?
A mix of japanese and chinese.
But I doubt they will do that. They still have 3 provinces (5 if you count most of Hammerfell and continental Morrowind) and closer places like Pyandonea, Yokuda, Thras and Atmora to explore. And let's not even get into how is difficult to animate a half-sneak race. There's also de fact that Yokuda is an entire continent and not just a single province

elderscrolls_map.jpg
 

OSK

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Nerevarine killed all the half-snake people! On the way to Akavir he probably killed all those non human-shaped Khajiit too.

I thought Yokuda sank.
 

Sul

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Ops, I meant Akavir, not Yokuda.
Nerevarine killed all the half-snake people! On the way to Akavir he probably killed all those non human-shaped Khajiit too.

I thought Yokuda sank.
Yep, now it's just an archipelago. In Oblivion there's a sailor in Anvil that even says there's merchant ships comming from there.
 

Wyrmlord

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Skyrim DLC may take you to Morrowind

Here are the reasons for this speculation. I assure you that I only did an internet search of this stuff; I hope I don't come across as a dork who keeps close tabs on Elder Scrolls lore. ;)

A recent look at patch files reveals dialogue with the Snow Elf Prince. There is only one non-Dwemer-enthralled Snow Elf who was not burned but buried, and that was the Snow Elf Prince in Solstheim, after the Nords slaughtered the Snow Elves of Solstheim. One guesses that Dawnguard will allow the player to visit the island of Solstheim in the Morrowind province to make a pilgrimage to his grave, and summon his ghost.

As you all know, if you try to really really walk over the edge of the mountain terrain with a horse in Skyrim, you find a gateway to Morrowind. Force your way through, using clipping errors and such, and you find the entire skeleton landscape of even Vvardenfell in Skyrim. Presumably, there were plans to allow the player to visit parts of Morrowind in Skyrim, but the idea may have been scrapped, and only a few files remain as derelict cut content.

So now, this idea might be revived as a DLC, in which you enter Morrowind, find a willing ship captain, visit Solstheim, and pay pilgrimage to the Snow Elf Prince. But before anybody wants to call bets, in order to humiliate me, let me also add that I too think this is a thin possibility.
 

Wyrmlord

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By the way, a question I intended to ask long ago.

Have you guys ever killed that one Telvanni Wizard in Daedric Armour as low level characters, just to get his special juicy armour?
 

Sul

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By the way, a question I intended to ask long ago.

Have you guys ever killed that one Telvanni Wizard in Daedric Armour as low level characters, just to get his special juicy armour?
Fyr? Why!? Aryon, Baladas and Fyr are the biggest bros in the whole game. Finding the armor by yourself is also far more fun than simply killing the guy that saved you from turning into a fucking zombie.
 

attackfighter

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You have to loot/steal from Fyr if you want to have a full set of Daedric armour, since he owns the only Daedric cuirass and pauldrons in the game. That said I don't think I ever killed him and saved afterwards. Nor did I bother pickpocketing the armour off of him, since that required jumping through some hoops. I just didn't care all that much and glass armour is better anyway (even if daedric is much cooler).
 

Wyrmlord

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By the way, a question I intended to ask long ago.

Have you guys ever killed that one Telvanni Wizard in Daedric Armour as low level characters, just to get his special juicy armour?
Fyr? Why!? Aryon, Baladas and Fyr are the biggest bros in the whole game. Finding the armor by yourself is also far more fun than simply killing the guy that saved you from turning into a fucking zombie.
I guess I am just a soulless player who sometimes sees people in a fictional world on a computer as exactly that.

For some, he is a kind generous man who allows Nerevarine to get the benefits of corpus disease without its ghastly effects. For others, he is just a standing source of loot, waiting to be scrapped salvaged.

:reverse monocle: ?? Or maybe :anti monocle:
 

potatojohn

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If they desecrate my memories of Vvardenfell with their new age popamole art style I will be royally pissed.
 

aris

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What? New age pop-a-mole art style? What the hell is that anyway?
 

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