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Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

DarKPenguiN

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-You know, I am sure these points I am going to make have been brought up during one of the nearly 90 pages in this thread but...

Skyrim pisses me off. It could have been the best ES game IMHO but they added level scaling and fast travel AND the opportunity to be the leader of every Guild.

So essentially my weak ass level 19 toon is ALREADY the master of the Thieves Guild AND the mage Guild. All these people who have been a part of these Guilds just happily pass leadership to me who just showed up last week???? WTF? AND as I am leveling up I am finding mages FAR tougher than myself which is just...Gay.

-Now I am sure MODs could fix this shit..But...

That said, I am still enjoying playing the game. Bought it on the PS3 so I can kick back and play on the Big Screen (which is breathtaking) and I love the "World" they have created.

-Morrowingd is still the best ES game to me, then DF, then Skyim- Oblivion is total shit with the exception of the Mad God Xpac which was pretty fun.

EDIT: And why oh why did they remove Spellmaking? That was alot fun.
 

DraQ

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Why does every generation of modders deem it necessary to port Morrowind over into the newest game, when the lack of pixel shaders, bloom, color correction, chunky specular maps, oversaturated lighting, plasticine facegen heads and sprite trees (these two more for OB) make it stylistically superior to Oblivion and Skyrim in every conceivable way? Is it to afford the new cohort of TES fans who jumped on the bandwagon with Skyrim to run around Vvardenfell like an idiot with gameplay that isn't even remotely extensive enough to paint the original content in a flattering light?

I guess that's how the progressive incrementalism of decline works. Some thirteen year olds pirate Morrowind, run Skywind, kill some cliff racers and brag about how they're such worldly and knowledgeable fans of the games without ever having to see what the series used to be really capable of. Morrowind isn't a perfect game by any means but it depresses me to think that the reason people complacently accept things like the fifth-grade level dialogue writing and world-building in Skyrim is because they aren't aware that a higher level of quality can be achieved.
Be completely fucking honest with yourself, the only good dialogue in Morrowind was few and far between, and the characters with it can be counted on one hand. Mistress Dratha, The Dwemer you meet in Tel Fyr, Crassius Curio, Dagoth "Motherfucking" Ur, and Vivec. The decent stuff could be counted on both hands. That other stuff and the king of Morrowind, Barenziah, Caius Cosades, and maybe Almalexia.

The strength of Morrowinds writing was never in it's dialogue writing, if you want strength in that go play Planescape, or Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. Morrowinds strength was in world building, IE, creating a believable system of lore, philosophy, religion and government through the descriptions in texts. In that regard it's similar to the Ultima series.
Indeed, but the strength of Morrowind Dialogue is that it allowed you to obtain information. You didn't engage in dialogue with Morrowind NPCs to explore their deep personalities, start emotionally engaging romances, mend their childhood scars or whatever. You did so because you wanted something. If this something wasn't items or services, then it was information and Morrowind really let you ask around about stuff.
Skyrim's dialogue may not be excruciatingly derpy Oblivion babble, but it does not, making it worse in comparison even though it works just fine.

More than that, to call Morrowind a good game, requires a degree of non-thought that I call progressive delusionism. It's a good game if you ignore the fact that there are large stretches without anything really interesting to do or look at
By this logic no cRPG is a good game. PST? Stretches of crappy combat and running around map punctuated by laborious dialogue tree traversal. Fallout? a lot of running around maps punctuated by shitty TB combat with derpy AI and lolrandom criticals.
Wizardry 8? Running back and forth boring road areas while bumping into hordes of bandits, modai and damn bats.
Arcanum? Just Arcanum.
BG? Running around empty maps, fending off repetitive filler encounters and constantly sweeping your cursor across the screen to find ring disguised as pinecone not different from every other pinecone on the map, some dull dialogue with options that don't matter much.

Everything is shit.

because default view range is so short it restricts your vision in a completely unrealistic manner even for fog.
Meshes well with gameworld shrunk in a completely unrealistic manner. Those two work better in concert than each of them alone.

There are complete and utter gaps in balance that lend themselves to a style of play that leans heavily on exploits. To the point where you can unintentionally break the game by doing accidental things.
Not to defend shitty design, but this isn't really relevant on first playthrough and avoidable on subsequent ones.

The combat system is utterly sucky to the point where button mashing with a heavily enchanted weapon is the prime method of combat at high levels.
It is, but it has much sounder underlying design. It's easier to rebuild a crappy shack on foundations worthy of a fortress than it is to fix a fortress built on a foundations worthy of a crappy shack.

Plus, Morrowind gives you more opportunities for creative behaviour by the virtue of spellmaker alone. It also has mobility skills that can be used creatively in combat and which Skyrim lacks, and its division of weapon categories meshes better with having block skill (it only lacks 1h spears, for it to be perfect).

Control is taken away from players more often than not, in the form of a block you can't control. A dodge you can't control and a hit you can't control.
Popamolefag detected. Those actions don't take away control from you because you can still do whatever you feel like doing when they play out (as opposed to Skyrim's awesome finisher cutscenes or oblivious' cutscene paralysis). More so, releagating those actions to game logic frees up control keys at the price of depriving the player of oh-so-awesome time your block game, while some sort of to-hit mechanics beats any shitty damage scaler any day.

The dungeons in Morrowind only feel larger than skyrims because on average you have a walk back, not saying it's a bad thing, but comparing the average dungeon in Morrowind to Skyrim. You'll find they more resemble closets to Skyrim's bathrooms. That's not to say it's not without it's benefits, the spaces that are fully realized are generally realized in a slightly better way than Skyrim. The spartan look of Morrowind generally gives a better appeal than Skyrim, which can't seem to settle on desolate or epic as it's main them.
The problem isn't look, size, environmental storytelling or uniqueness (though I'd probably rate average dungeon uniqueness higher in Skyrim, top dungeon uniqueness higher in Morrowind). It's linearity. Most dungeons in Skyrim are effectively corridors, shortucut back outside at the end only makes them even more formulaic.
There is also matter of hidden unique loot.

More than that the tunnels in morrowind that are closed off generally look like actual tunnel ends rather than tunnels that have randomly collapsed.
And that's just false, unless cave-in is only a cave-in to you if it's high poly.

In essense weighing the points, skyrim comes in just under Morrowind and above Daggerfall and Oblivion in total quality, with a few explainations.
I'd put it significantly below Daggerfall which I would put slightly below Morrowind. Still, Skyrim is pretty good game and decent enough TES. Infinitely superior to turdblibvion.

Dragon fights are better than cliffracers
Nope. Cliffracers were just a filler acting like filler. They were annoying, possibly too common and arguably not the best design, but they were doing what they were supposed to.

Dragons, OTOH, are definitive epic non-filler enemies degraded to filler. They could have been more interesting if they had broader array of abilities and AI to use them effectively, but as they are, they are just heavy hitting damage sponges that can be fought in formulaic manner thanks to unnecessarily derpy AI. And they are thrown at you unnecessarily often resulting in exact same feeling you had with cliffracers, except no cliffracer ever stole several minutes of your life.

When encountering a dragon you don't think "awesome! an epic battle!", nor "shitshitshitidontwannadieshit". You think "shit, I don't have time for this". For an enemy that's supposed to be epic and awesome this is the worst fail imaginable.

or really anything Morrowind had to offer combat wise
Well, Morrowind generally failed to provide good battles at higher levels, so not a big achievement.
Still epic demoted to filler can't compare to filer being filler. At least not positively. Even when random epic enemies are a tier of their own.


In general they've come far enough that unmodded the game aesthetically looks better than Morrowind. While sometimes it confuses it's theme, Morrowind did that as well to a somewhat lesser extent(Looking at you Grazelands and West Gash).
Bwuh?

For the record, I consider both games aesthetically pleasing. Would rate Morrowind a bit higher overall on grounds of it being more alien, but that's it.

particularly if I use every tool in my arsenal rather than just burst dpsing them down.
Try playing a pure caster in MW.

And yeah, HP bloat sucks.
 
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There is also matter of hidden unique loot.

Oh yeah, I was going through a crypt yesterday (Geirmund's Hall, iirc) and found a glass warhammer nicely tucked behind a nondescript web-covered skeleton that I was checking for clues on the room's panel puzzle. I'm still level 10.

:love:

Shame I can't wield it with my sissy Altmer arms :(
 

DraQ

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There is also matter of hidden unique loot.

Oh yeah, I was going through a crypt yesterday (Geirmund's Hall, iirc) and found a glass warhammer nicely tucked behind a nondescript web-covered skeleton that I was checking for clues on the room's panel puzzle. I'm still level 10.

:love:

Shame I can't wield it with my sissy Altmer arms :(
Morrowloot or vanilla?
 

Zewp

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Codex 2013


Just shows you the intelligence level of the average Skyrim player if they can't even tell they're being trolled by one of the most obvious trolls I've ever seen. Bunch of absolute morons in the comments section. Even worse than usual.
 

DraQ

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Killjoy.

That reminds me, I have to check that skeleton arm coming out of the lake near whiterun. When I found it, it was holding a steel sword. I wanna see if it will have become something else by now :lol:
I don't know if levelled stuff changes, but I know I've seen this sword as dwemer once.

Nice little detail, TBH, but why the fuck does it not reward exploration in tangible manner as well?
:x
 

Stabwound

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Messages
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I have to ask this every few months: are there any mods that make this fun to play yet? Levelling/questing/experience/skill mods? I want so hard to like this game but I just can't for some reason. I haven't played it since a month or two after it was released, by the way.
 

racofer

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Well... there's this thing at Loverslab that could make things a bit more interesting for you.


rm85pt5b6x7.jpg


It's probably not a good idea to post the rest of the pics though.
 

ohWOW

Sucking on dicks and being proud of it
Dumbfuck Queued
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Oh shit, bethtards are fucking pedophiles.

Furries, bronies, pedophiles, gays, zoophiles. Bethtards are goddamn trash.
 
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To be fair, most modders I've seen are head cases. Beth games seem to attract the worst of the lot because their games are easily moddable so anyone can do it.

I have to ask this every few months: are there any mods that make this fun to play yet?

You'd probably have got an answer already if the question wasn't so generic and tempting to answer with a "Of course not LOL". You're probably better off with the big overhauls like SkyRe or Requiem, but here's the main mods I'm using (not counting cosmetic stuff I installed mainly to make use of my new fancy graphics card).

Better Magic (several improvements to magic users so they don't suck so hard compared to "melee + enchanted weapons")
Duel - Combat Realism (better melee and enemy AI)
Forgotten Mastery (adds some spells that you can level up)
Most mods from this guy (mainly stronger creatures and leveling stuffies, including one that removes level scaling completely if that's your thing - I use the one that gives level ranges to zones)
Smithing Perks Overhaul + Weapons and Armor fixes + Complete Crafting Overhaul (they're made to work together, might as well be one mod)
Unofficial patches

I'm gonna try Immersive Patrols later today, it promises big random battles in the wilderness, with Imperials, Thalmor, Stormcloaks and bandits joining in. The winning side takes over the nearest fort.

Installation was pretty painless with the Nexus Manager. Load mod -> select mod -> activate.
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2

I hate fake gamer bitches who ruin the game with their 'causality' that cant beat the kiljaeden in heroic, i would Fuck her in arena. we dont need stupid whores to ruin everything

Fixed, Really get some pussy and stop this womyn hating it is much more healthy this way. She plays Skyrim songs better than those hacks hired by Beth and has pretty face nothing more or less.

That was irony, but she's not that pretty imo.

maluabout.jpeg


The fact that she is addicted to questing in World of Warcraft may or may not have something to do with it.

Awor Szurkrarz may shed more light about her facial features.

Well I take this kind of natural smiling uglinees over plastic Kwan barbies with horse like teeth anytime. :love: and I lied she has nice voice too... and backs the :obviously: Imperials too. :smug:
 

Bigg Boss

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Just shows you the intelligence level of the average Skyrim player if they can't even tell they're being trolled by one of the most obvious trolls I've ever seen. Bunch of absolute morons in the comments section. Even worse than usual.


Wow. What a bunch of dumb fucks. Are they new to the internet or just mentally retarded?
 

Bigg Boss

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Dude...he was trolling. Quite successfully I might add. I wonder if all the comments are left by 12 year olds?
 

ohWOW

Sucking on dicks and being proud of it
Dumbfuck Queued
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After seeing some 47yo dude saying he's making a family in Star Wars mmo, they can be everyone you know.

Your neighbour, your mate, your wife, even your mother.
 

DraQ

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I have to ask this every few months: are there any mods that make this fun to play yet? Levelling/questing/experience/skill mods? I want so hard to like this game but I just can't for some reason. I haven't played it since a month or two after it was released, by the way.
Yes.

Skyre is definitely worth it, so is Duel for combat mechanics and AI (disable clashing skyre modules if in doubt). You can get Morrowloot for more Morrowindy loot distribution, some magic mods for more spells (since there is no spellmaker) and you should be pretty much set.

Well... there's this thing at Loverslab that could make things a bit more interesting for you.


rm85pt5b6x7.jpg


It's probably not a good idea to post the rest of the pics though.
:what:
Deploy Kodex Kill Krew.
 

Zewp

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Codex 2013


Just shows you the intelligence level of the average Skyrim player if they can't even tell they're being trolled by one of the most obvious trolls I've ever seen. Bunch of absolute morons in the comments section. Even worse than usual.


Ah, my god. The comments on this video are killing me. Look at this one.

well apparently you don't because "the random V" stands for 5. It's the 5th game in the series. You must be trolling comparing Zelda to Skyrim and calling Cod innovative, really, there like carbon copies of each other, Skyrim graphics actually are quite decent, and anyways really who cares about graphics in the first place. You obviously aren't and rpg fan or haven't even attempted to play Skyrim for any period of time. Go away troll.

So if you don't like Skyrim you're not an RPG fan.

:retarded:

For someone who blatantly and obviously trolls, this guy is actually amazingly successful. It's like the Skyrim sheeple don't even have a fucking clue.
 

Kahlis

Cipher
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Jun 23, 2012
Messages
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For someone who blatantly and obviously trolls, this guy is actually amazingly successful. It's like the Skyrim sheeple don't even have a fucking clue.
Brand dilution man, D&D 4e and new video games with the Forgotten Realms license are basically just pandering to the World of Warcraft crowd, with their edgy high-contrast digitally painted anime handbook artwork and MMORPG hotbar combat. It's depressing to think the next generation could grow up never knowing there ever was such a thing as an RPG that fell outside of that stereotype.

The best was that person arguing that Bethesda games were for "intellectuals."
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Those Bethsesda sheeple need to come on Codex and see what :troll: is... ''Buy only CoD games they're inovative...'' :5/5:
Any Mod making Skyrim mainquest not Popamole shit? No then install overhaul for Morrowind and Onward! Now it actually looks more praety than Skyrim.
 

roll-a-die

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Messages
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I was going to reply to DraQ's post, but then sex and a momentary power outage happened, so my post got lost, I'll reply to it later.

To be fair, most modders I've seen are head cases. Beth games seem to attract the worst of the lot because their games are easily moddable so anyone can do it.
Bethesda modders come in 3 varieties

Prissy Drama Queen who leaves after someone calls their work gay.
Newb trying something too big for their britches.
Legend who enevitably dissappears after making something great.
I have to ask this every few months: are there any mods that make this fun to play yet?

You'd probably have got an answer already if the question wasn't so generic and tempting to answer with a "Of course not LOL". You're probably better off with the big overhauls like SkyRe or Requiem, but here's the main mods I'm using (not counting cosmetic stuff I installed mainly to make use of my new fancy graphics card).

Better Magic (several improvements to magic users so they don't suck so hard compared to "melee + enchanted weapons")
Duel - Combat Realism (better melee and enemy AI)
Forgotten Mastery (adds some spells that you can level up)
Most mods from this guy (mainly stronger creatures and leveling stuffies, including one that removes level scaling completely if that's your thing - I use the one that gives level ranges to zones)
Smithing Perks Overhaul + Weapons and Armor fixes + Complete Crafting Overhaul (they're made to work together, might as well be one mod)
Unofficial patches

I'm gonna try Immersive Patrols later today, it promises big random battles in the wilderness, with Imperials, Thalmor, Stormcloaks and bandits joining in. The winning side takes over the nearest fort.

Installation was pretty painless with the Nexus Manager. Load mod -> select mod -> activate.
I use Duel- Combat Realism

Skyrim Redone, which is really good.

Deadly Dragons + it's compatriot mods Deadly Dragons Armory and Deadly Dragons Spells

Forgotten Mastery

Apocalypse

iHUD

SkyUI

Supreme and Volumetric Fog

UFO

And CCO.

Don't use Random Start Locations yet, it will fuck everything up.
 

Stabwound

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Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
Thanks for the suggestions. Digging through these mods is bringing back Morrowind War flashbacks of wading through mods, installing them in correct order, weeding out incompatibilities, etc. What a fucking jungle. Not sure I have the patience for this right now, but I admit that Skyre and a few others do make the game sound a lot more appealing on certain levels.
 

racofer

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Your ignore list.
Thanks for the suggestions. Digging through these mods is bringing back Morrowind War flashbacks of wading through mods, installing them in correct order, weeding out incompatibilities, etc. What a fucking jungle. Not sure I have the patience for this right now, but I admit that Skyre and a few others do make the game sound a lot more appealing on certain levels.

Nexus mod manager will organize your mods in the correct loading order and warn you about incompatibilities.
 
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There's also BOSS if you wanna be really sure about it. But you only have to worry about load order and incompatibilities if you install a million mods, which you shouldn't be doing if you are just interested in making the game fun enough to play. That's for people who like fucking around with the mods themselves.

Just had a great time finishing that crypt where I found the glass warhammer. Draugr deathlords who could kill me in one hit chasing me across the tunnels as I desperately avoid their shouts and arrows, laying runes along the way and leading them into traps I avoided triggering along the way. I even used dual-casted runes as firebolt targets to hit one that was hiding behind a platform. Speaking of traps, there was a particularly odious one after that hiding draugr - a drawbridge with a lever in plain sight. I stop near the edge, pull it, and nothing happens. I pull it again to make sure. I then turn around and see huge spikes jutting out of the wall to hit anyone who pulled it from the front, with the real lever tucked into a corner or the wall. :lol:
 

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