SMT: Nocturne

[ghostdog]

Playing it with PCSX2 will always be better, since with save state loading you can somewhat control the RNG of skill inheritance....

 

[Average Manatee]

I think the environment looks much crisper in the trailer? Might be the same texture which just look better due to HD I guess.

As far as I can tell they are just using some post processing to increase contrast and stuff. Something I can do just the same in PCSX2 (and in fact I do normally have those settings on, I just disabled everything and went complete vanilla for this comparison).

 

[Gastrick]

An annoying part of this game was how the three factions are all caricatures of actual beliefs. Iirc, all three are retarded and bizarre enough to be impossible to actually support. So, I really wanted to be part of the might-makes-right faction on the concept alone, but the execution made it frustrating. The other aspects of the game are done well though.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

An annoying part of this game was how the three factions are all caricatures of actual beliefs. Iirc, all three are retarded and bizarre enough to be impossible to actually support.

I still don't get why angels have supported Yosuga which is pretty much chaos ideology.

 

[Gastrick]

I still don't get why angels have supported Yosuga which is pretty much chaos ideology.

That was pretty weird, nothing makes sense with the factions.

 

[lightbane]

Yes, there's always going to be exceptions. Good point?

Actually, they're more common than you think. Devil Survivor 1 also had reusable Suspend/Quick saves. So do the Fire Emblem games IIRC, and many others. It depends on the designer.

An annoying part of this game was how the three factions are all caricatures of actual beliefs. Iirc, all three are retarded and bizarre enough to be impossible to actually support. So, I really wanted to be part of the might-makes-right faction on the concept alone, but the execution made it frustrating. The other aspects of the game are done well though.

That was pretty weird, nothing makes sense with the factions.

Gentlemen, ever played SMT? The factions always are caricatures, they're meant to be the extremes of Law and Chaos, with Neutral being the common sense middle ground route. That being said, the Reasons were quite different compared to Absolute Control vs Disastrous Anarchy. They were still flawed of course, because two of them were made by either scared and helpless teenagers that were forced into a terrible environment, or a lunatic that is obsessed with making the world become a placid hivemind no matter the price.
The angels joining the obvious Chaos analogue path was weird indeed, but perhaps these angels were renegades or something.

I liked the depiction of Law vs Chaos shown in Digital Devil Saga 2, which made slightly more sense. Of course, the game still favors the Neutral Path. Supposedly Strange Journey Redux also offers "reasonable" Chaos and Law paths, unlike the base game.

 

[Nathir]

An annoying part of this game was how the three factions are all caricatures of actual beliefs. Iirc, all three are retarded and bizarre enough to be impossible to actually support. So, I really wanted to be part of the might-makes-right faction on the concept alone, but the execution made it frustrating. The other aspects of the game are done well though.

They aren't even supposed to be "actual beliefs" in a chaos vs order kind of way. They are more beliefs of individual characters. "Migh makes right" is a belief that anyone can have, even lawful angels who are arrogant and think they are better then everyone else. The caricatures of law vs chaos are actually found in every other game, except for Strange journey.

 

[Gastrick]

Gentlemen, ever played SMT? The factions always are caricatures, they're meant to be the extremes of Law and Chaos, with Neutral being the common sense middle ground route. That being said, the Reasons were quite different compared to Absolute Control vs Disastrous Anarchy. They were still flawed of course, because two of them were made by either scared and helpless teenagers that were forced into a terrible environment, or a lunatic that is obsessed with making the world become a placid hivemind no matter the price.
The angels joining the obvious Chaos analogue path was weird indeed, but perhaps these angels were renegades or something.

I liked the depiction of Law vs Chaos shown in Digital Devil Saga 2, which made slightly more sense. Of course, the game still favors the Neutral Path. Supposedly Strange Journey Redux also offers "reasonable" Chaos and Law paths, unlike the base game.

I've played nocturne, know the endings of strange journey, and played the beginning of SMT 1 and DDS 1. They seemed normal enough in SMT 1 but maybe I just needed to play more.
It's too bad then that all three happened to be mentally ill. It would make choosing someone to help more interesting. I suppose there's still lucifer's alternative.

 

[lightbane]

It would make choosing someone to help more interesting

That would be the teacher's "unnamed reason", the Freedom ending, which is about returning things to the way they were. Not that much, but compared to the other Reasons, it is better than making the world an hostile place to live (even more). Luci's alternative is to flip the table and destroy everything though.

The factions in SMT 1 and 2 do get crazier as time progresses, especially in the second one.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

The only game that seems to have any interesting aligments is Devil Survivor because chaos and law are resonable in that game and Neutral options have their downsides very clear , mainly Yuzu.

Also the chaos rep isn't retarted while the law rep isn't a drone for god.

Spoiler

Also i can become the freaking demon lord and kick God ass

 

[lightbane]

he only game that seems to have any interesting aligments is Devil Survivor because chaos and law are resonable in that game and Neutral options have their downsides very clear , mainly Yuzu.

Yuzu is the coward or the powergamer's ending, since it is the easiest way to start NG+. "Real" Neutral paths are the Atsuro ending ("let's make demons into an energy source!" Difficult to acquire though) and the Song ending ("remove ALL DEMONS!").

While Chaos is indeed reasonable in DS, Law though?

aw rep isn't a drone for god.

You do become one, ruling a scared humanity in the name of God or else, dropping all pretenses of being a real Messiah. I dunno if the Overclocked expansion fixes that. It does make the Yuzu ending and the Chaos Overlord one better, with the latter having 2 variations.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

I dunno if the Overclocked expansion fixes that.

Not only fixes , but make the law pretty much the ''best ending'' , because

Spoiler

you make demons and human work together, bring peace to all , well the game ends you going into the quest to unify the entire world

But honestly , i like Good Chaos ending better.

 

[lightbane]

Not only fixes , but make the law pretty much the ''best ending'' , because

Funny. If that's the case, it makes the Chaos endings (both of them) contradictory, as well as Yuzu's own (the regular one or the expanded one), as this time God is not an asshole who will turn on you at the first opportunity if he's willing to let his Messiah govern the world with people willing and not by fear.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

as this time God is not an asshole who will turn on you at the first opportunity if he's willing to let his Messiah govern the world with people willing and not by fear.

But God is asshole tho. After all the Ordeal would have happen anyway also if even only one human summons a demon again , it's another ordeal.

In Chaos is all about freedom , there's no God's rules because there's no God. IMO the best ending even if Law is can be argue to be the ''best best ending''.. I think this make the aligments in this game better than most. All endings have some going for them and are all valid.

 

[lightbane]

After all the Ordeal would have happen anyway also if even only one human summons a demon again , it's another ordeal.

Wasn't the Ordeal forced by Cain, who wanted Abel to rebel against God? Either way, compared to YVWH's usual attitude, letting humans live in peace ruled justly by their Messiah is a novelty. The standard DS1 Law ending suddenly has your character become a tyrant, when there was no mention of how it would end like that anywhere, and it felt like a dick move to me. Good to see the remake fixes it.

In Chaos is all about freedom , there's no God's rules because there's no God.

I disagree: Chaos is all about anarchy and strength, and since demons are stronger than humans, the latter are going to suffer. In the original Chaos ending of DS1, it wasn't mentioned what would happen after the war against Heaven ended, but it's easy to tell nothing good. Apparently the "good" variant of said ending in the remake makes the MC prevent that.

All endings have some going for them and are all valid.

I would say Yuzu's ending sucks by design. The one where demons are expelled is also boring. I liked Atsuro's own the best: A very hard to acquire ending due its convoluted requirements, but if achieved, it has humanity using demons as a power source, which is metal as hell (of course, Japan curiously happens to become a superpower afterwards). Even Cain steps back and decides to watch what happens, surprised by humanity's ingenuity, rather than trying to sabotage your project.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Apparently the "good" variant of said ending in the remake makes the MC prevent that.

Pretty much. The route split between killing people to get things done , so becomes tradional chaos and the good route is preveting killing people, making a good image for the Overlord and make Angel look bad at picture to humans.

I disagree: Chaos is all about anarchy and strength, and since demons are stronger than humans, the latter are going to suffer. In the original Chaos ending of DS1, it wasn't mentioned what would happen after the war against Heaven ended, but it's easy to tell nothing good. Apparently the "good" variant of said ending in the remake makes the MC prevent that.

In Overclocked, at least , is more about rebelling against God (and Cain getting his vegence against god) , after all one of big things in the remake during the good route chaos is that you get people together to join your cause then you kick the shit out Metatron out Earth, so God has no power over Earth .. But yeah , most other chaos ending , othe than New Ending Strange Journey and Overclocked , are about anarchy and strength.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

No skill inheritance fix confirmed.

 

[Lutte]

Those ear-piercing high pitched voices constantly squeeling (lel le kawaii)... japanese men really have horrendous fetishes

 

[karoliner]

Two nukes wasn't enough.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Any word about adding new demons?

 

[lightbane]

Lame. They had a chance at making this the ultimate edition of the game, and they failed it. Oh well, save-scumming through emulators will win the day, again.

 

[Silva]

With no save state the game is unplayable for me.

 

[Deflowerer]

RNG fits the theme of the game better.

Good.

 

[lightbane]

RNG fits the theme of the game better.

Good.

Of course a Fiend would say that.

 

[lightbane]

A stream of the early game, in Japanese. Voice acting seems to be spot on, for the most part, with some like Chiaki that sound weird and perhaps inappropiate, but that's a matter of personal opinion. The stream is in Merciful Mode, which is clearly EZ with lower encounter rate and less unfair RNG. I doubt there's an option for specific inheritance system upon fusing. Also, the cutscenes are blatantly lazy with that obvious screen reduction.

Spoiler