So, anyone playing League of Legends?

[Grunker]

This is the story of a boy named Casper and about a ranked game in solo queue. The story starts simple enough for the boy and his 1560 rating - but we promise you, dear readers, that it is worth the read. It is a tale of woe, retardation and a bit of lulz. However, if you value your sanity, turn back now. For Phage however, the read is mandatory.

Today, Casper logged into LoL. He just wanted to play with some friends. Unfortunately, Casper has been having some problems with his clients as of late - at random times, LoL will keep disconnecting in the client. This problem only happens while he is not in a game - should he succesfully get into a game, everything works fine. However, the problem usually keeps Casper from actually getting into a game. Today, Casper had that problem. He rebooted his computer and decided to try a normal game with randoms first while his friends played a match. By mistake, Casper clicked Ranked solo queue, and before he realized it, he ended up in champion select.

Horror grasped our Danish friend's heart. He sat paralyzed in front of his computer. Magnifying his dread was the fact that he couldn't speak to his team-mates nor, when it came to his pick, select any champions. He also realized that he was last pick - indicating that he was the lowest ELO of everyone on his team. Saddened, Casper decided that the only right thing to do was to exit LoL, taking a -10 penalty to his ELO. He could not bear to cause a loss for both himself and his team-mates. Dutyfully he clicked the X at the top right corner of the screen, and went to fix himself a comforting sandwich.

When Casper returned to his computer but two minutes later, he found to his surprise that the client had been hanging on the "loading to exit" box - it had not quit! Nervously, he alt-F4'ed and reopened LoL, and his suspisions were confirmed: the game had started, and he had gotten a random pick. Casper clicked re-connect, thinking that the only course left to him was to help his team-mates as well as he could. The client loaded, went into the game, and Casper's heart sunk as he saw his random pick:

VLADIMIR.

Ah well. Casper picked up a couple of potions and a bunch of wards, and went into the hardly pressed bottom lane, where his team-mate Tristana was pushed to the brink of death. It is at this point, dear readers, that we skip ahead in the story by using a graphical illustration to show how the game went. By now, however, I'm sure you've all guessed it:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAAAAACh0/pAhgkUM1Lqw/s1280/Clipboard01.jpg


























1600+ SOLO QUEUE NOT RANDOM AT ALL LOLOLOLOLO SUPPORT VLAD CLEARLY OP

Seriously

I only took kills that would have otherwise gotten away, I never last-hitted unless I was the only one around, and I spammed wards, bought oracles, and bought GP5. Our Shaco was really, really good, but he derped after the beginning (got overconfident) and the rest of my team was pretty derp the whole time. The match was basically a coin-flip. I had the best score by far in the game though...

So, did support-Vlad carry a game because of my skill-level alone, as Phage would have you believe? I say no. I sure as hell would be able to carry myself out of ELO hell if I could steadily carry a team to victory with fucking support Vlad. I won, of course, because there are nine other players in the game, and their actions dictate as much, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, of what is going to happen in the game as I do. BECAUSE THAT'S HOW A TEAM GAME WORKS.

also lol most anectodal piece of information on this topic yet

 

[Excidium]

 

[Darth Roxor]

I can already see the rage on enemy team chat. 'Omg noobs u cant beat trist with support vlad wtf u doin at this elo????'

 

[Grunker]

All chat was strangely silent. Only thing I remember seeing in team chats was a couple of "sorry"-lines when my team-mates died and the closing line from Trist: "Vlad is so sick."

 

[Phage]

Please show me the part where I said that every single game is determined by your individual skill. Your team somehow got Shaco and gave him to a player who's good with the champ (despite beginning derp) which alone is usually enough to net a win. I know Shaco isn't used in tournament competitive, but he's a sought after pick at every decent elo bracket, and a good shaco player will win lanes in solo queue. On top of that you clearly did something right if you went 9-1-10.

What I have said, or at least tried to say, is that since you are the only consistent variable in solo queue, after enough games played, your elo will indeed be your own doing. Just how many games it takes is unknown - perhaps it's too many. Additionally the way the placement system works and the inclusion of duo-queing are legitimate problems with solo queue.

Solo queue ranked requires thick skin - much like the codex. There will be games that you didn't earn the win for, and others you didn't earn the defeat. But if you honestly believe that after 100 games that your elo isn't an reflection of your own actions, then you're illogical.

 

[Ulminati]

Jungle pantheon is really, really good. He eats quite a lot of mana if you try to use spears to clear jungle fast. But his ganking kit is fantastic. High burst, targeted stun+gapcloser on a short cooldown. Passive helps when taking buff creeps (I usually start boot+pots or clothpots depending on whether I expect counterjungle. Then I go vamp scepter, 'zerker greaves for MOAR passive, wriggle, brutalizer, phage, mallet).

21/9/0 masteries and atkspeed reds/flat armor yellows/lifesteal quints/whatev. blues seem to offer the best combination of sustain and clear speed.

Once I hit 6, I've yet to make a mandrop into a lane that didn't net our team at least one kill. If the enemy has used flash, mandrop + spear + stun + spear means your passive will be up to tank two tower shots before any damage accrues.

Panths only problems are his counterjungle being unimpressive (not enough sustain beyond creepfarming, very squishy if he gets caught out of position) and without solo lane farm he's dependant on at least one of his lanes not pushing so he can gank and get early kills. That said, if you can land 2-3 successful ganks early on, disregard what I just typed. Ward enemy buff creeps and grab yourself a free kill+buff every time enemy jungler tries to take them.




Also had a bunch of games with Undead Phoenix
We get some truly, staggeringly stupid puggers 9 games in 10. Just thinking back to our games tonight -- a lee sin with a skin who jungled but didn't do his first gank until lv 11, didn't donate blue to mid and never placed a ward or checked on dragon.

Or the last game we had today -- I picked mid morg, he picked top riven. Then pugger #1 picked a trynd with cleanse/exhaust. After a while he changed to smite/flash. Then the last 2 puggers decided what the team obviously needed was morde/garen bot. By the 12 minute mark, the enemy vayne had 9/1/2, her kills distributed evenly on morde/garen with a few on trynd.

A few games before that I was trying to practice my Ashe. (It's no secret that ranged AD is by far my weakest role). Ended up against an ashe/ap yi with a nidalee on our team. By the time I hit lv2, AP Yis apha strike had whittled me down to ~25% hp, so nidalee decided her lv2 skill should be bushwack (lv1 was spear), forcing me to B since she didn't feel like healing. She used the traps from bushwack a total of one time the entire game. A bit later I got a good volley in on the enemy ashe, followed by an arrow that left her at ~100 hp. At this point nidalee decided that flash+spear for a KS was the logical thing to do, since clearly my autoattacks couldn't finish off th enemy carry before stun wore out She also didn't buy a single ward and used spear toss to steal CS on creeps a normal autoattack could've killed.

Of course, those pale in comparsion to the TF and Urgot who decided that - when we were 5v3, had just taken baron and were at 75%+ health - it was a good idea to bluepill instead of going for the 2 open inhibs in a close game.

It may sound highly unscientific; but a sample size of ~50 games over the last week suggests that our puggers are markedly stupider if I'm laning instead of jungling. o_O

 

[Markman]

Im playing Vmans Blitz build as support with some scary results, +15 ad runes, some armor and attack speed with ignite/exhaust with leveling up Overdrive to 5 till lv9.
Triple 5gold/10 and then Trinity. Very strong early game. But this is just trolling normals, dont think i could get away with this in ranked.

 

[Ulminati]

My shyvana counterjungle's getting pretty good. Since the "in" thing these days appares to be for mid/sidelane to give their jungler a hard pull on small camp + buff creep, I usually start my path in the other half of the enemy jungle and clear all of it - buf creep included - sans 1 small creep per camp, then gank a sidelane and clear my own jungle. Last shyv game I played, we had swain(ours) vs ahri(theirs) mid. Enemy jungler was a lee (starting red). I started at enemy wolves+blue (swain didn't want it), then ganked bot for FB, then proceeded to clear my red camp, then ganked mid after ahri flashed in to try and ignite swain for an assist. After swain got back, I gave him our blue buff. From that point onward, *every* red buff - theirs or ours - was picked up by me and *every* bluebuff - theirs or ours - was given to our swain. Since the kill timers on their and our blue golem were staggered, there'd always be a golem just respawning as swains blu was about to time out. Swain with permanent bluebuff went on to wreck faces while I soloed dragons and ganked sidelanes. Keeping a paper pad and noting down timers on all 6 big creeps -- not the last time I do that.

 

[Grunker]

Just how many games it takes is unknown

Precisely. This very fact is the reason you cannot claim that ELO hell does not exist. It does for a fact up to a point. ELO paradise as well, in theory (my mate got that at the beginning of the pre-season, he is much worse than me and played at 1700 rating for a long time until the ELO reset. He is now at 1100). Where the amount of games required to obliterate the existence of ELO hell is we don't know, but even if it does exist, the point is it gets exponentially worse the lower your ELO. Ergo, if your unlucky in your first 50 games, you might be stuck down there for a very, very long time.

 

[Phage]

Just how many games it takes is unknown

the point is it gets exponentially worse the lower your ELO. Ergo, if your unlucky in your first 50 games, you might be stuck down there for a very, very long time.

I disagree completely on that point. The farther away from your true elo you are the easier it is to rise. Not to mention, if you're at 800 elo, you can just simply play as

- Bursty snowbally mids (Annie, Cass, Ahri)
- Hypercarry APs (Vlad, Karthus, Mordekaiser)
- Snowbally top lanes (Trynd, Riven, Akali)
- Ganking junglers (Rammus, Xin, Lee Sin)
- "AD Caster Carries" such as Graves and Sivir

All of those champs will allow you to dominate games that are well below your skill level with ease. Even if you are last pick and have to play a support, the fact that your team has a real support will increase your odds of winning, and if you're good with someone like Blitzcrank or Leona it becomes even easier. Time and time again people have documented steamrolling through low elo. It gets hard to gain elo when you're close to your actual skill level - which it should be.

I guarantee I could get an account up to 1400 without too much trouble. I don't own any smurfs though and don't intend on leveling any other than my european ones (which I keep intending on leveling but I'm so lazy, lol)

 

[Grunker]

That does not in any way, shape or form defeat the comparative ELO argument.

 

[Phage]

???

You said that if you lose 50 games you'll be stuck down there for a very long time. I explained to how people literally make a living off of bringing accounts up to 1400 elo from sub 1200 (there was an AMA on reddit from a guy who did this), and how it's done in countless threads.

 

[Grunker]

Yes, and those people probably have a "true" ELO much higher than 1400. The ELO-hell-crowd has stated many times that it believes 16-1700+ can carry themselves out of ELO Hell no problem, because their ELO is comparatively higher.

We have put forward this argument many, many times, and you have not responded to it.

 

[Phage]

I'm not really sure what you're arguing. Are you trying to say that a 1400 player will be stuck at 800? Because that seems quite absurd.

 

[Grunker]

Under the right circumstances, yes. That's the entire point of our discussion. I was stuck there myself not long ago. But even if the bar was lower, let's say 1200 could be stuck on 900 or something, it would still be an issue.

 

[Phage]

I'll admit that there's about 200 elo margin of error (I never said there wasn't), but I don't see why that's too big of a deal. If you're 300 below where you belong, it's pretty easy to rise, you just need to play your best and play frequently.

I'm honestly not even sure what this argument we're having is, if there is one at all. lol

 

[Grunker]

We're discussing whether solo queue is an indicator of skill. I claim that is not below 1400, that it is only mildly so from 1400-1800 (because ELO fluctuates here) and that it only truly is on extremely high ELO.

 

[Ulminati]

Basically, the gist of your arguments seem to be:
Grunker says ELO is not an accurate indicator of skill because it fluctuates wildly due to a number of factors outside the players control
Phage says ELO is an accurate indicator of skill even though it fluctuates wildly due to a number of factors outside the players control

 

[Phage]

I stand by the extremely simple fact that throughout the course of 50-100+ games played of solo queue (unless you duo queue which has its own slew of problems) you are the only constant factor throughout those games. If you think that after 100 games where you are the only constant factor, that is not a decent indication of skill, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Two games in a row where the enemy team didn't ban Kassadin (which they usually do all the time)

feels good to be op again

 

[Grunker]

I stand by the extremely simple fact that throughout the course of 50-100+ games played of solo queue (unless you duo queue which has its own slew of problems) you are the only constant factor throughout those games. If you think that after 100 games where you are the only constant factor, that is not a decent indication of skill, then I don't know what to tell you.

Let me ask you a simple question: Does 100 games of Starcraft II indicate your skill at playing Starcraft II better than 100 games of solo queue LoL?

If you answer yes, it is I who don't really know what to tell you.

 

[Phage]

I stand by the extremely simple fact that throughout the course of 50-100+ games played of solo queue (unless you duo queue which has its own slew of problems) you are the only constant factor throughout those games. If you think that after 100 games where you are the only constant factor, that is not a decent indication of skill, then I don't know what to tell you.

Let me ask you a simple question: Does 100 games of Starcraft II indicate your skill at playing Starcraft II better than 100 games of solo queue LoL?

If you answer yes, it is I who don't really know what to tell you.

Yes. Do you realize how that's irrelevant?
Just because SC2 has a system that works better doesn't mean that League of Legends' system doesn't work.

So, again, care to explain how 100 games of solo queue, where you are the only constant throughout those games, does not indicate your skill?

 

[Ulminati]

Not sure why you're still going on about this. convincing either of you that your viewpoint is wrong is like chasing singed. A futile waste of time while everyone else enjoys blowing up your objectives.

 

[Grunker]

does not indicate your skill?

I have never said it does not indicate your skill. I have said that it does so very poorly.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

I loved your story Grunker.

Also they need to nerf Fiora hard and fast. That ult is blatantly overpowered.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller