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So, Baldurs Gate

KazikluBey

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
792
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Well, that's a pretty good write-up but I note that you appear to be comparing pure fighters to other classes and kits. I certainly agree that non-kitted fighters are pretty much useless compared to most of the other warrior-types and kits.

Personally I don't have any trouble using up all the actually good weapons in a 6-person party with some 3-5 melee characters. A berserker, a paladin and possibly a cleric for the frontline, a thief (maybe kensai-thief for those juicy backstabs - multiply that 5-point +2 damage by 5 please, along with all the other bonus damage from the supposedly useless fighter kit), and maybe a kensai-mage or something. I really don't tend to have any trouble covering all the good meta-game options.
 

Abelian

Somebody's Alt
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
2,289
Rangers can only get weapon specialization (two stars), same as Paladin and Barbarian.
I think that the Archer kit can get bow grandmastery, but is limited to being proficient in all other weapon types. But BG2 nerfed bows, so it doesn't make as much of an impact as in BG1.
 

TedNugent

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
6,758
I just played Baldur's Gate to completion for the first time in my life last night.

I used Weidu BGT mod, which imports Baldur's Gate into the Baldur's Gate 2 engine. I tried playing it up to just past the Nashkel Mines a few weeks prior to trying Weidu on the BG1 engine so I have a frame of reference. I would definitely recommend that anyone planning on playing the modded original game instead of the Enhanced Edition consider strongly using this guide on GoG.com http://af.gog.com/news/enhance_the_...ion_of_baldurs_gate_from_gogcom?as=1649904300 amusingly titled "Enhance the gameplay in your edition of Baldur's Gate." It is a very helpful step-by-step guide for installing the widescreen mod, the fixpack, and Weidu which imports the game into the Baldurs Gate 2 engine (you must own both games to do this). I found that the user interface worked with the widescreen mod when following this guide and scaled appropriately to 1680x1050 with no black bars or improperly-scaled UI elements.

This has a few advantages over the original game, namely that you can play Baldur's Gate 2 races (such as half-orc) and subclasses (such as Berserker, which I highly recommend if you're planning on making a fighter). Weidu also transitions you immediately into Baldur's Gate 2 upon completing the game. It is completely seamless and it does not require you to character import into a new game.

I would also recommend that anyone go into the Baldurs Gate 2 config and upgrade the Enhanced Pathfinding to somewhere around 400,000 path search nodes, and even with that engaged keep in mind that the pathing is still going to have issues.

I played this game for storyfag reasons because some asshole told me that Baldur's Gate 2 had a good story. I have my doubts, as Baldur's Gate 1 has atrocious companions. They say literally nothing of value throughout the entire game and the best companions are those that simply aren't annoying. They constantly whine and bellyache about your every decision and repeat trite and juvenile catchphrases over and over. I highly recommend that anyone playing this game turn OFF the voices of the companions in the dialogue options.

Onto the meat-and-potatoes of the game. Baldur's Gate has a few crippling issues and design flaws, but the peak experience of the game is without a doubt the dungeons, most especially Durlag's Tower, which is an immaculately rendered player torture chamber. All dungeons are beautifully handcrafted. Keep in mind that all of the content is agonizingly painful to get through due to a few serious issues.

This game wants to kill you. You have to save every time you round a corner or one of your party members will end up dead. I'm not kidding. If you're walking through Durlag's Tower, or a Basilisk den, or whatever, you are going to routinely trip over some trap or walk into some encounter you haven't prepared for and end up locked into some routine that requires you to load back your quick save and go through things the right way. For an RPG game this game has a lot of puzzle elements. In some areas (for instance Durlag's Tower), literally every square six-inches of every dungeon floor is going to have a trap. That's on average. You may walk over 6 traps on your way across a doorway. These also are not your grandpa Akbar's traps. Imagine walking down the sidewalk and a fireball hits you in the face, 3 times in a row, followed by a lightning bolt that ricochets around the room and subsequently a 20' radius Cloudkill for the fuck of it.

You must bring a thief, it is a requirement, but I'm sure you knew that already. I was walking around with 100 detect trap skill and 18 Dex on my main thief when I was doing Durlag's Tower and she was still stumbling over traps. At that level of skill you can barely detect a trap until you've almost tripped over it, and sometimes, you do anyway.

Second, the user-interface is not very helpful. Here's the kicker. Every time you DISARM a TRAP, your thief exits "Detect Traps" mode. Upon disarming, you must go BACK into "Detect Traps" and repeat the process. Every time you attack an enemy, open a door, talk to an NPC, Rest, or open a chest, you leave "Detect Traps" mode.

There is no unit-grouping hotkeys, although there are skill-hotkeys. F4 is Detect Traps, F5 is thief skills.

In effect, when you're walking down a cramped corridor lined with traps, ghouls, petrifying basilisks, and mind-controlling mages, you must alternately press F-4, lead with your thief who inevitably trips over at least one death-trap which possibly paralyzes half your party, engage in a cramped melee with a half-dozen monsters which requires you to fall back with your thief and bring forward your melee-tanks. After the combat, you must select your thief and drag forward your thief to the front again through shit-pathing in cramped quarters, press F-4 to engage your "Detect Traps" skill, moving one square at a time, and almost stumble over a trap which appears at the last moment. Then you must disarm said trap by pressing F-5, which turns off detect-traps mode. At which point you -think- the coast is clear and move forward your party before stumbling into another death trap that causes a party wipe.

I'm really not exaggerating.

Your party members stumble around each other in corridors no wider than 2 characters abreast.

Mages have the ability to mind control your entire party for 30 seconds in one cast (I'm not exaggerating). Basilisks have a ranged attack that paralyzes and permanently kills a character and makes them lose all their items. They can cast this attack roughly every 1 second (again not exaggerating) and the DC class is such that somebody with a 7 save against Paralyzation will likely get one shot as soon as he or she steps into paralyzation range. In effect, you must burn a potion that gives you immunity to these effects for each encounter. Be prepared to quicksave a lot.

That's the biggest part of the experience. Fail to lockpick? Quicksave. Basilisk paralyzed your main character while walking around a corner? Quicksave. Mage MC'd your entire party and your -6 AC main character was beaten to death by a ghoul? Quicksave. Stumbled over a trap that webs your entire party from moving for 30 seconds? Quicksave.

TL;DR This game sucks and no one should play it.
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
I just played Baldur's Gate to completion for the first time in my life last night.

I used Weidu BGT mod, which imports Baldur's Gate into the Baldur's Gate 2 engine. I tried playing it up to just past the Nashkel Mines a few weeks prior to trying Weidu on the BG1 engine so I have a frame of reference. I would definitely recommend that anyone planning on playing the modded original game instead of the Enhanced Edition consider strongly using this guide on GoG.com http://af.gog.com/news/enhance_the_...ion_of_baldurs_gate_from_gogcom?as=1649904300 amusingly titled "Enhance the gameplay in your edition of Baldur's Gate." It is a very helpful step-by-step guide for installing the widescreen mod, the fixpack, and Weidu which imports the game into the Baldurs Gate 2 engine (you must own both games to do this). I found that the user interface worked with the widescreen mod when following this guide and scaled appropriately to 1680x1050 with no black bars or improperly-scaled UI elements.

This has a few advantages over the original game, namely that you can play Baldur's Gate 2 races (such as half-orc) and subclasses (such as Berserker, which I highly recommend if you're planning on making a fighter). Weidu also transitions you immediately into Baldur's Gate 2 upon completing the game. It is completely seamless and it does not require you to character import into a new game.

I would also recommend that anyone go into the Baldurs Gate 2 config and upgrade the Enhanced Pathfinding to somewhere around 400,000 path search nodes, and even with that engaged keep in mind that the pathing is still going to have issues.

I played this game for storyfag reasons because some asshole told me that Baldur's Gate 2 had a good story. I have my doubts, as Baldur's Gate 1 has atrocious companions. They say literally nothing of value throughout the entire game and the best companions are those that simply aren't annoying. They constantly whine and bellyache about your every decision and repeat trite and juvenile catchphrases over and over. I highly recommend that anyone playing this game turn OFF the voices of the companions in the dialogue options.

Onto the meat-and-potatoes of the game. Baldur's Gate has a few crippling issues and design flaws, but the peak experience of the game is without a doubt the dungeons, most especially Durlag's Tower, which is an immaculately rendered player torture chamber. All dungeons are beautifully handcrafted. Keep in mind that all of the content is agonizingly painful to get through due to a few serious issues.

This game wants to kill you. You have to save every time you round a corner or one of your party members will end up dead. I'm not kidding. If you're walking through Durlag's Tower, or a Basilisk den, or whatever, you are going to routinely trip over some trap or walk into some encounter you haven't prepared for and end up locked into some routine that requires you to load back your quick save and go through things the right way. For an RPG game this game has a lot of puzzle elements. In some areas (for instance Durlag's Tower), literally every square six-inches of every dungeon floor is going to have a trap. That's on average. You may walk over 6 traps on your way across a doorway. These also are not your grandpa Akbar's traps. Imagine walking down the sidewalk and a fireball hits you in the face, 3 times in a row, followed by a lightning bolt that ricochets around the room and subsequently a 20' radius Cloudkill for the fuck of it.

You must bring a thief, it is a requirement, but I'm sure you knew that already. I was walking around with 100 detect trap skill and 18 Dex on my main thief when I was doing Durlag's Tower and she was still stumbling over traps. At that level of skill you can barely detect a trap until you've almost tripped over it, and sometimes, you do anyway.

Second, the user-interface is not very helpful. Here's the kicker. Every time you DISARM a TRAP, your thief exits "Detect Traps" mode. Upon disarming, you must go BACK into "Detect Traps" and repeat the process. Every time you attack an enemy, open a door, talk to an NPC, Rest, or open a chest, you leave "Detect Traps" mode.

There is no unit-grouping hotkeys, although there are skill-hotkeys. F4 is Detect Traps, F5 is thief skills.

In effect, when you're walking down a cramped corridor lined with traps, ghouls, petrifying basilisks, and mind-controlling mages, you must alternately press F-4, lead with your thief who inevitably trips over at least one death-trap which possibly paralyzes half your party, engage in a cramped melee with a half-dozen monsters which requires you to fall back with your thief and bring forward your melee-tanks. After the combat, you must select your thief and drag forward your thief to the front again through shit-pathing in cramped quarters, press F-4 to engage your "Detect Traps" skill, moving one square at a time, and almost stumble over a trap which appears at the last moment. Then you must disarm said trap by pressing F-5, which turns off detect-traps mode. At which point you -think- the coast is clear and move forward your party before stumbling into another death trap that causes a party wipe.

I'm really not exaggerating.

Your party members stumble around each other in corridors no wider than 2 characters abreast.

Mages have the ability to mind control your entire party for 30 seconds in one cast (I'm not exaggerating). Basilisks have a ranged attack that paralyzes and permanently kills a character and makes them lose all their items. They can cast this attack roughly every 1 second (again not exaggerating) and the DC class is such that somebody with a 7 save against Paralyzation will likely get one shot as soon as he or she steps into paralyzation range. In effect, you must burn a potion that gives you immunity to these effects for each encounter. Be prepared to quicksave a lot.

That's the biggest part of the experience. Fail to lockpick? Quicksave. Basilisk paralyzed your main character while walking around a corner? Quicksave. Mage MC'd your entire party and your -6 AC main character was beaten to death by a ghoul? Quicksave. Stumbled over a trap that webs your entire party from moving for 30 seconds? Quicksave.

TL;DR This game sucks and no one should play it.

Yes, Durlag Tower is a solid moron indicator.
 

TedNugent

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
6,758
I already cleared Durlag's Tower.

I crawled to the top of the tower, unlocked all the boxes, I gave the Succubus' hair to the stooge thief, I ran my hasted 20 Constitution half-orc past the trap room opposite the dwarves, turned the shiny grapes into wine, put the lever into the machine, I put the handle into the mallet head and banged on the gong, looted all the green pools, answered the silly quizzes, and got the dagger off the Doomknight after flipping the mirror and killing all the reflections. Then I let the guy go free and I went to Ulgoth's Beard where I was ambushed by cultists, looted all their potions of heroism, talked to the dwarf, interrupted the demon summoning ritual, dispelled all the death gazes from the Tanari, etc. It wasn't particularly brain-bending, except for the ridiculously context-sensitive wine-press.

By the way, you can walk past the rune-carpet if you run along the rightmost edge close to the northeast wall. A real moron test wouldn't be that exploitable.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,905
what are AI scripts to automate routine tasks like defaulting to searching for traps mode on a thief (I'm not exaggerating)
 

VentilatorOfDoom

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
8,603
Location
Deutschland
I agree this game is terrible. You won't even get your health back when you rest (only a tiny amount) and your companions don't get up after combat if they fell unconscious during the struggle. Purest suckage. At least in The Elder Scrolls I can drink 20 health potions all at once when I'm low on health but here can I only drink one per combat round and to add insult to injury, it heals for a ridiculously low amount of HP. Do not play this game!
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
I played this game for storyfag reasons because some asshole told me that Baldur's Gate 2 had a good story. I have my doubts, as Baldur's Gate 1 has atrocious companions. They say literally nothing of value throughout the entire game and the best companions are those that simply aren't annoying. They constantly whine and bellyache about your every decision and repeat trite and juvenile catchphrases over and over.
Companions don't interact much until BG2. BG1 was just before Bioware realized people might actually want to talk to companions (These days, most Bioware games revolve around talking to your companions. Go figure...), so they are going to feel superficial until BG2 where they get hundreds of lines of dialog, their own side quests, romance options, conversations, and interjections/reactions to player choices and plot elements.


Also, you strike me as the sort of person that might benefit from reading the manual and/or adjusting the difficulty slider to easy...
 

jagged-jimmy

Prophet
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1,563
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Freeside
Codex 2012
Well, if you're not familiar with D&D and play for the first time - it might be frustrating. As all learned "popamole" mechanics do not apply. So if you are coming from Diablo or something you have to adapt. Thus, i reserve calling people morons. I remember sending my Fighter to "block" Ogre... and sending all Chars 1on1 with enemies, 1 hit crits-deaths accompanied with "wtf is this shit", etc. We all have to learn how to play.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Companions don't interact much until BG2. BG1 was just before Bioware realized people might actually want to talk to companions (These days, most Bioware games revolve around talking to your companions. Go figure...)
If anyone cares, NPC modding is a tradition that dates to BG1 days. Something that BioWare realized and wisely emulated for the second game.
 

Rake

Arcane
Joined
Oct 11, 2012
Messages
2,969
Well, if you're not familiar with D&D and play for the first time - it might be frustrating. As all learned "popamole" mechanics do not apply. So if you are coming from Diablo or something you have to adapt. Thus, i reserve calling people morons. I remember sending my Fighter to "block" Ogre... and sending all Chars 1on1 with enemies, 1 hit crits-deaths accompanied with "wtf is this shit", etc. We all have to learn how to play.
Please... he said he finished the game. I remember my first time where i had no idea what i was doing and had Imoen magic missile my mage PC in my first fight in BG2. And i kept changing weapons because i had no idea what 1d8 meant and i was going blind. But i never went crying on forums" this gaem sukz".And after i exited Irenicus dungeon i started to get how things worked. If someone is still this confused after playing the game for 100 hours, he shoulg go to have his brain checked by a physician.
 

SausageInYourFace

Codexian Sausage
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In your face
Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
I am a pussy and don't know how to fight.

fixed.

I played this game for storyfag reasons because some asshole told me that Baldur's Gate 2 had a good story. I have my doubts, as Baldur's Gate 1 has atrocious companions.

I am sorry, I don't get it. In what way is the quality of the plot supposed to be related to the interaction with the companions?
 

TedNugent

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
6,758
I am a pussy and don't know how to fight.

fixed.

I'm sorry?
Sarevok2_zps48586a64.jpg


I am sorry, I don't get it. In what way is the quality of the plot supposed to be related to the interaction with the companions?

I don't know, play Planescape: Torment? Did the interaction with the companions have to do anything with the quality of the plot?
 

SausageInYourFace

Codexian Sausage
Patron
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In your face
Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
Interaction with companions can certainly help the plot but it is in no way a necessity and RPGs can have great plots without the use of companions. You implied that the plot in BG1 was shit because the companions were annoying. I really don't see that much of a logical connection between these two elements.
 

TedNugent

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
6,758
Interaction with companions can certainly help the plot but it is in no way a necessity and RPGs can have great plots without the use of companions. You implied that the plot in BG1 was shit because the companions were annoying. I really don't see that much of a logical connection between these two elements.

You're right, I did imply that, so I'll go into detail.

The writing I found to be underwhelming to bad. I read every book in the game and it read to me like extended Tolkein universe fanfic with the same tone as the LOTR glossary at the back of the book. That tone leaves it devoid of a lot of personality which in my opinion sapped the experience.

The main story arc was....actually, pretty novel in comparison to other RPGs, but there isn't much to it.

You even acquire Sarevok's diary and you can see how years prior, he was formulating this plan with nary a semblance of personal development.

The game practically makes fun of Sarevok's motivations, and they don't make a whole lot of sense. His tactics were basically sound and I found the fact that he was effective in using assassinations to be particularly compelling in painting a realistic portrait. If it wasn't for his lack of clear motivations, he might appear to be less of a mustache-twirling villain and more of a believably driven sociopathic killer.

In comparison, the player seems like more of a stumbling oaf, wandering through his various traps with the with the subtlety of a bowling ball. It's fair to say that if it wasn't for Sarevok's flawed personality in alienating his own allies, it's not likely that the PC would be able to overcome his various assassination attempts.

So in short, I don't see the villain to be sympathetic. Neither the villain nor the PC undergo any serious character development.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

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The story of BG1 is p. pathetic, If you are going to allow a wide variety of backgrounds for PCs the least you can do is create a starting point that doesn't make most choices nonsensical.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,970
The story of BG1 is p. pathetic, If you are going to allow a wide variety of backgrounds for PCs the least you can do is create a starting point that doesn't make most choices nonsensical.
Magic.
There, all plotholes are resolved.
 

TedNugent

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
6,758
You've grown up in a library all your life, and all of a sudden, Gorion decides to send you on an adventure!
 

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