So... How did you feel about Pillars of Eternity?

[Sensuki]

Yeah it does. The exposition isn't 'personalized' specific to the characters in the game world enough like they said it was going to be.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Arcanum introduced a new and more complex setting with considerably less exposition and much more effectively.

Yeah, I wonder how they did that.

Oh right, with a 3 minute opening cut-scene.

 

[Haraldur]

Arcanum was "stock fantasy undergoing an industrial revolution." That's a simple high concept.

PoE probably has too much dry exposition but you can't pitch its setting in a single sentence.

There was a little more to Arcanum than that, with all that ancient armour everywhere and creepy ruins (non-textual, granted), the race relations, etc.. It had a simple (and interesting) high concept and more.

I have not gone far in PoE, but, from what little I remember: This is a set of colonies from an older civilization, with some vague "soul" business, in an otherwise standard "fantasy" world. That has not gripped me (yet).

PST: Every world that could ever exist is connected, with magical portals, to this city, governed, in a somewhat chaotic fashion, by a bunch of philosophical factions and a mute deity that punishes worship. Outside are many dimensions including demons, gods and the dead.
Oh, and you are dead, surrounded by death and its symbols(skulls, Dustmen, zombies, rats (in a way), ghosts...), and effectively part of the setting.

Fallout: 1950s sci-fi nuclear war occurs in the 2070s. You start, decades later, in a devastated Southern California, filled with raiders, traders, ruins and mutants (including double-headed cows).

Settings: Arcanum, Pillars of Eternity, Planescape: Torment, Fallout -- which is better and why? Discuss!

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

There was a little more to Arcanum than that, with all that ancient armour everywhere and creepy ruins (non-textual, granted), the race relations, etc.. It had a simple (and interesting) high concept and more.

I have not gone far in PoE, but, from what little I remember: This is a set of colonies from an older civilization, with some vague "soul" business, in an otherwise standard "fantasy" world. That has not gripped me (yet).

PST: Every world that could ever exist is connected, with magical portals, to this city, governed, in a somewhat chaotic fashion, by a bunch of philosophical factions and a mute deity that punishes worship. Outside are many dimensions including demons, gods and the dead.
Oh, and you are dead, surrounded by death and its symbols(skulls, Dustmen, zombies, rats (in a way), ghosts...), and effectively part of the setting.

Fallout: 1950s sci-fi nuclear war occurs in the 2070s. You start, decades later, in a devastated Southern California, filled with raiders, traders, ruins and mutants (including double-headed cows).

Settings: Arcanum, Pillars of Eternity, Planescape: Torment, Fallout -- which is better and why? Discuss!

Let's see:

Arcanum starts very vague. There's a cut-scene and then you're stranded with neckbeard Virgil and don't even know what are you doing there. It only picks up after few hours.

PST opening is pretty fucking terrible. It took me 5 years and several attempts before I could be bothered to get out of the Mortuary.

Fallout had best intro cut-scene in history of human race. If you're not hooked after watching it, you're dead inside.

Pillars starts off decently, they do very good job introducing things through visuals and gameplay. Scripted scenes in tutorial area are intriguing enough, and the scripted entrance into Gilded Vale sets the tone well. The problem after that is not the writing itself, its execution and pacing. The first important bit of introduction to the setting is through Eder, who won't even fucking talk to you at first. The next important bit is in Caed Nua, which is again sucks donkeys ass. The whole area is so huge, its a game of its own. If you tie important plot into there, people just stick around with the dungeon spending hours of gameplay, and by the time they leave they forgot all about the plot. Maerwald should have been put in Temple of Eoreas or however you spell that. By act 2 it all picks up and gets interesting, but that's too little too late.

 

[Sensuki]

An integral part of writing is execution and pacing, not just fancily written sentences.

Sent from my Desktop PC whilst eating Salami and Cheese.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

So in other words you had no idea what you were talking about, until I explained what the actual problem is and you decided to ride along.

Glad we agree.

 

[Sensuki]

I imagine you also create your own narrative in your head while playing Pillars of Eternity as well.

 

[CptMace]

PoE probably has too much dry exposition but you can't pitch its setting in a single sentence.

Forgotten Realms meet Thirteen Colonies. I did it in 5 words.

Once you take off all the unnecessary shit in PoE's writing, you're left with :
- Durance, god bless Avellone for actually saving, even a little bit, the poe's setting.
- Lady Webb reveals shit about Thaos
- The twin elm's dryads reveal shit about Thaos
- Thaos reveals shit about Thaos

All the rest is pointless, bits of lore clumsily exposed in the most impersonal manner by all the twat npcs from the game.
Back in 2012 when I heard about the kickstarter, I posted on obsi forums to basically say : "don't overexpose your setting just to show that you worked on it" and they did that exactly.
So now, you can meet bethesda npcs in the game. No personality, no agenda, nothing.

 

[Sensuki]

- Durance, god bless Avellone for actually saving, even a little bit, the poe's setting.

Indeed. And now, he's gone.

 

[Roguey]

Forgotten Realms

Only superficially.

 

[Immortal]

So now, you can meet bethesda npcs in the game. No personality, no agenda, nothing.

Bethesda does an incredible job of keeping their lore obfuscated and almost inconsistent between games. If you dig into it - there's actually a lot of depth there that they don't really say but instead show in the world.
This isn't praising their writing or lore.. Don't misunderstand.. This is just the exact opposite of what PoE did.

So anxious to shove everything down our throat so Josh can show how great he is at making historical things. Whereas Bethesda forces you to dig for even the smallest amount of Lore going back to Morrowind / Daggerfall. Large plot devices and lore tidbits are generally revealed in hidden away sidequests, Skyrim did this a lot too.

 

[Roguey]

Fenstermaker's Folly is all on Fenstermaker. Josh didn't write it himself, nor did he have some sort of "must have more dry exposition" requirement, in fact, the opposite.

 

[Lhynn]

Fenstermaker's Folly is all on Fenstermaker. Josh didn't write it himself, nor did he have some sort of "must have more dry exposition" requirement, in fact, the opposite.

He was directing the fucking thing, he has more responsibility than Fguy over the final product.

 

[Infinitron]

I think the amount of "dry expositiion" is another thing that you're going to find has been greatly exaggerated when you actually play the game, Roguey.

It's got more than the IE games I guess, but by my estimation, is basically on par with any other modern game that introduces a new setting.

 

[Jaedar]

It's got more than the IE games I guess, but by my estimation, is basically on par with any other modern game that introduces a new setting.

And what are you basing this estimation on, if I may ask?

 

[Roguey]

He was directing the fucking thing, he has more responsability than Fguy over the final product.

And Chris "rubberstamp" Avellone was the creative director, putting him above Josh when it comes to all things creative at Obsidian.

Remember, Chris Avellone shredded two drafts of Alpha Protocol and ended up writing almost the entire thing himself. He didn't feel it necessary to do such a thing on Pillars.

 

[Lhynn]

And Chris "rubberstamp" Avellone was the creative director, putting him above Josh when it comes to all things creative at Obsidian.

Remember, Chris Avellone shredded two drafts of Alpha Protocol and ended up writing almost the entire thing himself. He didn't feel it necessary to do such a thing on Pillars.

If i were to guess he was so disgusted with the product he deemed it unsalvageable and decided to quit. Id probably be wrong, but it gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

Avellone didnt seem to care much for whatever happened on obsidian, and his own writing and input on pillars got axed as you are well aware, to the point he didnt want to be associated with the product. As for AP, despite its many flaws its probably one of the most enjoyable games ive played, so hes cool in my book.

 

[CptMace]

Bethesda does an incredible job of keeping their lore obfuscated and almost inconsistent between games. If you dig into it - there's actually a lot of depth there that they don't really say but instead show in the world.
This isn't praising their writing or lore.. Don't misunderstand.. This is just the exact opposite of what PoE did.

Note that I didn't talk about bethesda's way to handle lore, but their npcs only. Though I get how my message was confusing on that aspect.

 

[Immortal]

If i were to guess he was so disgusted with the product he deemed it unsalvageable and decided to quit. Id probably be wrong, but it gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

Avellone didnt seem to care much for whatever happened on obsidian, and his own writing and input on pillars got axed as you are well aware, to the point he didnt want to be associated with the product. As for AP, despite its many flaws its probably one of the most enjoyable games ive played, so hes cool in my book.

Alpha Protocol is way better than PoE.. Which is just sad.

 

[norolim]

"Well if this game came out 15 years ago it would suck.. but this is the best it's gonna get *continues licking the dirty turd sawyer left on his porch - while everyone else funds D:OS II*

Well, serves me right for leaving room for interpretation. I should probably be glad I wasn't accused of being a national socialist on the basis of what I posted there.

Anyway, wtf are you on about?

 

[Immortal]

Well, serves me right for leaving room for interpretation. I should probably be glad I wasn't accused of being a national socialist on the basis of what I posted there.

Anyway, wtf are you on about?

Don't be dramatic - I am simply saying that giving PoE a pass because it came out in 2015 as opposed to 1998 is a bullshit rationalization.
Especially when there are plenty of good RPG's coming out today.

Spoiler

Commie

 

[norolim]

Don't be dramatic - I am simply saying that giving PoE a pass because it came out in 2015 as opposed to 1998 is a bullshit rationalization.
Especially when there are plenty of good RPG's coming out today.

I'm not rationalising. My opinion on the game is fixed: it's an average or possibly even a good game in any conditions. I mentioned that in my analysis I referenced in that post. What I also said in that analysis was that, if not for all the KS games, we would still be deep in the era of decline, waiting for another Oblivion to bitch about and obsessing over one hit "wonders" once in a while. So I'm glad those KS games are here, because I prefer an average RPG to an action platformer marketed as an RPG. That's what I meant.

Spoiler

Coś ty zrobił dla realizacji planu?

BTW. Do we know who designed and wrote Durance? Was it MCA?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Yea the writing for the game is hamstrung by the linear plot. BG1 has a much greater "sense of adventure" the problem is you didn't play the game until like last year.

You managed to crit tarnish at friendly arm inn and now the whole game is easy and posed you no challenge. Maybe if you played it 15 years ago you would have experienced it differently.

For me it was a magical journey!


EDIT:
Okay I am done Editting


EDIT EDIT:
Okay Now

Played it in 1999 after Fallouts and Ultima VII. Was very disappointed.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I think the amount of "dry expositiion" is another thing that you're going to find has been greatly exaggerated when you actually play the game, Roguey.

It's got more than the IE games I guess, but by my estimation, is basically on par with any other modern game that introduces a new setting.

What other game even comes close to the amount of lore dumps and meaninglessness text PoE has? Only other recent rpg that annoyed me in this regard was SRHK, and that one didn't suffer from lore dumps per say but just too much bad writing..

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

All the SR games suffer from poor delivery mostly, writing itself I liked. The problem is, you can't go to a toilet without having to read unskippable riveting tale about how our ancestors invented toilet paper. The way all HBS games are structured (mission>back to hub) makes the whole thing feel like you're constantly reading and never playing.