Baldur's Gate So... Which Studio Should Replace Larian As The Developer of Baldur's Gate 4?

[Zed Duke of Banville]

The license for Baldur's Gate 4 should be given to an experienced game developer that already has expertise with tactical turn-based combat and with 3D graphics, just needing an extra boost to funding for more technically-advanced cutscenes, which will be made easier by the relative cheapness of being located in a third-world second-world country:

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Just 'cause what they added doesn't appeal to you personally doesn't make it a "pump and dump", NWN EE was in support for a long while and got a nice share of improvements by the end. Between the henchman controls, the modder/builder features and the new renderer (which I do see the difference with, by the way), I wouldn't wanna go back to the DE unless I had to. The DE's still fine, but I find the EE to be the better experience.

There's source ports that do way, way more than the "EE" and do it for free. The renderer allows for larger resolutions, and resolutions which have become commonplace since the original early 2000s release, and then added some things like UI scaling because of the larger resolution. They got rid of the GameSpy code and replaced it with their own browser, which is fairly nice of them. The inclusions to the Aurora toolset are nice, I guess, but I honestly don't really care much about them.

But here's where the "pump and dump" comes in. Let's ignore the incredibly half assed controller scheme for a second. They port it to XBox, Playstation 4, Switch, Android and iOS. The XBox, Playstation 4 and Switch can't use any custom modules on an unhacked platform. You can make the argument that those platforms are fairly locked down, but considering every fanboy for NWN ever has constantly spewed the bullshit that NWN is just for making and playing custom modules. That's their excuse for the shit OC in NWN, "It's for making your own modules!" yet there's no console that can play those custom modules. The Android and iOS versions can play custom modules, but you know what's missing from Android, iOS, XBox, Playstation 4, and Switch? The Aurora Toolset which is, according to every damned BioWare/NWN fanboy since the original version came out, supposed to be the entire point of the game!

 

[SkyFlyer97]

This is them saving face for investors. They should have done what it took to get Larian back, but they failed. This won't result in anything.

 

[Gargaune]

The renderer allows for larger resolutions, and resolutions which have become commonplace since the original early 2000s release, and then added some things like UI scaling because of the larger resolution.

That's just not true, you're describing the 2018 release "enhancements" but I told you things have progressed since. The entire lighting model's been reworked, you've got better illumination, colour grading and modern shader support including a whole bunch of configurable frame buffer effects. You can read about it here (or just check your Options) and there's been a couple more knickknacks since, but here's a few old/new spoilers:

But here's where the "pump and dump" comes in. Let's ignore the incredibly half assed controller scheme for a second. They port it to XBox, Playstation 4, Switch, Android and iOS. The XBox, Playstation 4 and Switch can't use any custom modules on an unhacked platform. You can make the argument that those platforms are fairly locked down, but considering every fanboy for NWN ever has constantly spewed the bullshit that NWN is just for making and playing custom modules. That's their excuse for the shit OC in NWN, "It's for making your own modules!" yet there's no console that can play those custom modules. The Android and iOS versions can play custom modules, but you know what's missing from Android, iOS, XBox, Playstation 4, and Switch? The Aurora Toolset which is, according to every damned BioWare/NWN fanboy since the original version came out, supposed to be the entire point of the game!

Oh, you meant it's "pump and dump on consoles?" Good! The less time they spent on shitboxes, the better, and it's nice to have the shoe go on the other foot every once in a while. Though I'm not sure why you bring up the Toolset - while it really is a major component of NWN, I've never heard anyone wanting to build modules with a controller or by poking their finger at a 5'' screen.

 

[Jaesun]

There won't be BG4, at least for a decade. No one can do what Larian did.

Agreed.

 

[ds]

But here's where the "pump and dump" comes in. Let's ignore the incredibly half assed controller scheme for a second. They port it to XBox, Playstation 4, Switch, Android and iOS. The XBox, Playstation 4 and Switch can't use any custom modules on an unhacked platform. You can make the argument that those platforms are fairly locked down, but considering every fanboy for NWN ever has constantly spewed the bullshit that NWN is just for making and playing custom modules. That's their excuse for the shit OC in NWN, "It's for making your own modules!" yet there's no console that can play those custom modules. The Android and iOS versions can play custom modules, but you know what's missing from Android, iOS, XBox, Playstation 4, and Switch? The Aurora Toolset which is, according to every damned BioWare/NWN fanboy since the original version came out, supposed to be the entire point of the game!

So the biggest "problem" is that they screw over console NPCs? Good, those who buy into locked down platforms get what they deserve.

(The toolset was always hard-coded windows UI widgets and also was never included in the Linux port even back when NwN was one of the few commercial games with a native Linux version. But then there's always been Wine for that.)

 

[Nikanuur]

I have warned you all in due time, but nobody has listened.
Dark times are upon us!
Owlcat don't know how to make RPGs.
What they do is take insanely robust turn-based combat and builds system, torture 101 psychically challenged keyboard typers to spit out 37 pages of emotionally disrupted confessions in under 1 hour, and then demand from some other poor sods, chained in rusty shackles, fed by bread and water, to equip those pages with quotation marks here and there.
Then they lash their inner demons every day before breakfast and dinner for two years with much zeal and honesty, all the while yelling at them, "Either telekinetically graft this on some nonsense like gaming elements or whatever the heck is that supposed to even mean, or face the consequences!"
After that, they present the magically appearing product—an overbulging package strewn with purple, pulsing veins, ruptured and oozing strange grey goo—upon a bloodied rug laid on outstretched hands maimed ritualistically into the shape of claws, bowing and kneeling before the Eearlyvil Accessncient gods of forfeiture distribution, Steam, GoG, and Epic.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Oh, you meant it's "pump and dump on consoles?" Good! The less time they spent on shitboxes, the better, and it's nice to have the shoe go on the other foot every once in a while.

The concept you're failing to get is that the majority of people who bought NWN for those consoles are most likely PC gamers who just happen to also own those consoles. People who just play consoles probably have little to no idea what NWN is. They might know Baldur's Gate because of Dark Alliance, but that's the only outlier when it comes to Beamdog's ports. Same thing goes for the Android ports. Most PC gamers, as a noteworthy Blizzard developer pointed out at the absolutely wrong time, own phones.

I own several consoles. I particularly like my New 2DS XL. You want to know why? Because once jailbroken, it makes a fanastic portable for playing retro computer games. MSX, PC98, Amiga, every single 8bit computer under the sun, and DOS games up through the early 1990s play great on it. The touchscreen works as the keyboard. The D-Pad acts as the arrow keys. The analog stick acts as the joystick. The bumper buttons act as mouse buttons. The nub acts as a mouse. A button for enter, B button for ESC, X for spacebar, Y for joystick button. But hey, I can also play Mario Kart 7 on it too.

 

[MasPingon]

Larian created strange community around BG3 - there are d&d players, crpg players, BG1/2 fans, turn base combat enthusiasts next to faggots, bear cock suckers, furries, social justice warriors, "non-binary" fucktards. Who would want to please such an audience?

 

[Gargaune]

The concept you're failing to get is that the majority of people who bought NWN for those consoles are most likely PC gamers who just happen to also own those consoles. People who just play consoles probably have little to no idea what NWN is. They might know Baldur's Gate because of Dark Alliance, but that's the only outlier when it comes to Beamdog's ports. Same thing goes for the Android ports. Most PC gamers, as a noteworthy Blizzard developer pointed out at the absolutely wrong time, own phones.

Come on, you're a Codex admin, you can't be that surprised at not finding a sympathetic ear for console/mobile woes around here. If NWN EE is, like you put it, a "pump and dump" on non-PC platforms, that doesn't affect my opinion of Beamdog because my take on those devices ranges from consummate disinterest to historical resentment (there's a reason the word "consolised" isn't a compliment in PC gaming circles). If anything, while I get the commercial angle, I'm a bit disappointed they did it at all.

Moreover, I don't know why a veteran gamer would even expect anything but a cut-down, "well, I can goof around with some NWN from my couch" sort of experience from a console/handheld port of a 2000s RTwP isometric CRPG, probably the second least fit genre for that format after full-fledged RTS. If the controls are worse than other comparable products', okay, that could be legitimate criticism, but the absence of user-generated content support, while unfortunate, isn't all that surprising given the closed nature of these platforms, and criticising the lack of a Toolset is just a bridge too far.

 

[Shaki]

BG3 is basically a Bioware game with turn based combat, so obviously Bioware. It will also let them do a crossover events and merch, and make hundreds of millions from Solas & Astarion fangirls.

 

[MerchantKing]

There shouldn't be a BG4

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

If NWN EE is, like you put it, a "pump and dump" on non-PC platforms, that doesn't affect my opinion of Beamdog because my take on those devices ranges from consummate disinterest to historical resentment (there's a reason the word "consolised" isn't a compliment in PC gaming circles). If anything, while I get the commercial angle, I'm a bit disappointed they did it at all.

I agree with this. I don't think they should have done it at all considering what they did with it. Go through and read the comments on the review of NWN on here, the original game. I reviewed it based on NWN as a game, and the OC was awful. Now, having said that, there's pages upon pages of replies from NWN fanboys telling me that NWN isn't about the OC at all. Oddly enough, there's also mentions of how the Aurora Toolset was going to be ported to linux, which never happened.

Moreover, I don't know why a veteran gamer would even expect anything but a cut-down, "well, I can goof around with some NWN from my couch" sort of experience from a console/handheld

Probably because of Larian's port of D:OS2 allowing for not only cross platform play but also moving save games between the Switch and the PC. There's also the port of Torchlight II, which Runic Games did a fantastic job of reworking the UI to work with a controller. Unfortunately, they never bothered to take that controller UI/interface and put that in the PC version. I could also mention DevilutionX, which is available for free, and is a source port for Diablo available for PC, Linux, Mac, the 3DS, Switch, Amiga(seriously), Android, iOS, PS4, XBox, XBox Series One, MiYoo Mini, Mac, and PS Vita AND allows for cross platform multiplayer and has a really great controller scheme. There's also OpenMW which is similar, minus the multiplayer, but available on PC, Linux, Mac, Switch, Android and so on. There's more, but you get the idea. That bar was raised a long time ago.

 

[Skinwalker]

There shouldn't be a BG3

ftfy

 

[Gargaune]

I agree with this. I don't think they should have done it at all considering what they did with it. Go through and read the comments on the review of NWN on here, the original game. I reviewed it based on NWN as a game, and the OC was awful. Now, having said that, there's pages upon pages of replies from NWN fanboys telling me that NWN isn't about the OC at all. Oddly enough, there's also mentions of how the Aurora Toolset was going to be ported to linux, which never happened.

The OC was and still is awful (I've been replaying it against my better judgement), but it's not like it and the Toolset are NWN's only two bits of content anymore.

Probably because of Larian's port of D:OS2 allowing for not only cross platform play but also moving save games between the Switch and the PC. There's also the port of Torchlight II, which Runic Games did a fantastic job of reworking the UI to work with a controller. Unfortunately, they never bothered to take that controller UI/interface and put that in the PC version. I could also mention DevilutionX, which is available for free, and is a source port for Diablo available for PC, Linux, Mac, the 3DS, Switch, Amiga(seriously), Android, iOS, PS4, XBox, XBox Series One, MiYoo Mini, Mac, and PS Vita AND allows for cross platform multiplayer and has a really great controller scheme. There's also OpenMW which is similar, minus the multiplayer, but available on PC, Linux, Mac, Switch, Android and so on. There's more, but you get the idea. That bar was raised a long time ago.

I'm not sure I follow the subject of your complaint anymore, though - like I said, if you're dissatisfied with the UI relative to competitors, fair enough, I wouldn't know any better and I don't have a horse in that race beyond general schadenfreude, but you also brought up community modules (a thorny topic for mobile/console) and the Toolset (which just doesn't apply at all).

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I'm not sure I follow the subject of your complaint anymore, though - like I said, if you're dissatisfied with the UI relative to competitors, fair enough, I wouldn't know any better and I don't have a horse in that race beyond general schadenfreude, but you also brought up community modules (a thorny topic for mobile/console) and the Toolset (which just doesn't apply at all).

I think my point is that with the EE games, they started with the PC versions, added some bells and whistles, released that. Then they half assed the ports and that ported that shit to everything they possibly could as a cash grab. Now, given how willing they were to half ass things starting with the code and assets for a PC game, imagine what they'd do with something from scratch knowing that they're likely to get more sales from certain consoles.

They have one game that's not an EE game, MythForce, and it's hard to get a feel for how they're going forward since the reviews seem to be fairly mediocre for the game across all the platforms it's released on. To be honest, from the looks of it, I'd consider getting it if it were on GoG and on sale.

 

[Risewild]

So... Which Studio Should Replace Larian As The Developer of Baldur's Gate 4?​

Interplay! They made the best Baldur's Gate game and it's also the most faithful to the tabletop D&D ruleset: Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance II

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

There shouldn't be a BG

ftfy

I've never before written "I fixed it for both of you", but I fixed it for both of you.

 

[Gargaune]

I think my point is that with the EE games, they started with the PC versions, added some bells and whistles, released that. Then they half assed the ports and that ported that shit to everything they possibly could as a cash grab. Now, given how willing they were to half ass things starting with the code and assets for a PC game, imagine what they'd do with something from scratch knowing that they're likely to get more sales from certain consoles.

They have one game that's not an EE game, MythForce, and it's hard to get a feel for how they're going forward since the reviews seem to be fairly mediocre for the game across all the platforms it's released on. To be honest, from the looks of it, I'd consider getting it if it were on GoG and on sale.

I've made it no secret that I like Beamdog's EEs (on PC at least, dunno the rest), I think they're good value and don't deserve the bad rep even if I've had my share of annoyance with their QA. I'd be open to an original RPG from them (SoD's writing was a mess but the gameplay was good) but, like I said, I wouldn't want it to be BG4, that's a poisoned apple just waiting to choke a studio. With MythForce flopping, though, I just hope IWD2's back on the menu.

 

[scytheavatar]

I think my point is that with the EE games, they started with the PC versions, added some bells and whistles, released that. Then they half assed the ports and that ported that shit to everything they possibly could as a cash grab. Now, given how willing they were to half ass things starting with the code and assets for a PC game, imagine what they'd do with something from scratch knowing that they're likely to get more sales from certain consoles.

They have one game that's not an EE game, MythForce, and it's hard to get a feel for how they're going forward since the reviews seem to be fairly mediocre for the game across all the platforms it's released on. To be honest, from the looks of it, I'd consider getting it if it were on GoG and on sale.

I've made it no secret that I like Beamdog's EEs (on PC at least, dunno the rest), I think they're good value and don't deserve the bad rep even if I've had my share of annoyance with their QA. I'd be open to an original RPG from them (SoD's writing was a mess but the gameplay was good) but, like I said, I wouldn't want it to be BG4, that's a poisoned apple just waiting to choke a studio. With MythForce flopping, though, I just hope IWD2's back on the menu.

Beamdog is in their current state because they fucked around too much after the success of the BG rereleases. They should have gone straight to making an original RPG after BG2, but instead they wasted time and money on other IE shit that was never going to bring in a lot of money. Game dev is a shark tank, the rich gets richer while the poor doesn't get poorer, they just die. Remaking IWD2 when the original was a flop would be the exact opposite of what Beamdog needs to do to avoid getting shut down soon.

 

[Desiderius]

Less than a month after news of Larian Studios announced it was moving on from Dungeons & Dragons following Baldur’s Gate 3 to explore new ventures, Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast have assured fans they are seeking out a studio to make Baldur’s Gate 4 already, so it is worth discussing which studio would be the least bad option to be given the license to develop Baldur's Gate 4 in your opinion?

Owlcat is the most appropriate candidate imo, they have experience working with DnD-like ruleset thanks to their Pathfinder rpgs already, but their game tend to be over-complicated and hardcore, therefore a Baldur's Gate 4 made by them is unlikely to resonate with mainstream mass like Hasbro expect. I still prefer Owlcat to make a Pathfinder game based on Iron Gods adventure path first though.

Although Tactical Adventure (Solasta) did cross my mind when I ponder this question, the reason I didn't include them in the poll is because they are too small to handle a big-scope project like Baldur's Gate 4.

Pierre

 

[mediocrepoet]

Baldur's Gate 4 teaser trailer

Spoiler

 

[Tacgnol]

Give it to Warhorse.

Ilmater be praised! Tav has come to see us!

 

[Swen]

Two studios that could handle BG4.

-Warhorse studios

-CDPR

The rest are too incompetent like Owlcat, etc.

 

[Gargaune]

Remaking IWD2 when the original was a flop would be the exact opposite of what Beamdog needs to do to avoid getting shut down soon.

I'd like to think that wouldn't be the case since we're talking about different levels of investment in a different state of the market, the BG series EEs were very successful and probably helped drag the other ones in their trail, but I'm probably biased, I really want an IWD2 EE.