KickStarter Solasta: Crown of the Magister Thread - now with Palace of Ice sequel DLC

[mediocrepoet]

Just track the conversation. Artyoan made a 6 party member version of The Forsaken Isle, rebalancing maps and enemies to fit with 6 party members.

Why? I have my friendly neighbourhood Grunker to help me out.

 

[Artyoan]

Other than small parameter changes to custom enemies I won't be changing much. Didn't want a linear campaign and for the DM as it is, that is the only way to make proper use of the attrition system. Not worth it imo. Maybe TA will add in a 'rest' currency system for a difficulty option and that would accomplish the task anyway. Only so many full rests til another resting node is found. The ending export system shows how many full rests you've taken, which is a good way of establishing a metric too.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Then we have different goals. I'm not concerned with following 5e/CR guidance rules. My goal is to make a tactical crpg campaign. You should have something more like 2.5 encounters per rest by the end. I have the ogre's attack, health, and armor slightly lower for the first balance patch. Some of the conditions like Chilled and Asleep are lowered as to the DC. Various small parameter changes coming.

It's not tactical, its masochistic and sadistic design, not unlike kotc2, you guys should have a beer together. But you know at some point its better when more than one or two guy enjoy and play what you made.

Yes, that would explain why the four man version made by the same guy (me) has 6.5k subscribers with a 98% positive rating.

Have not tried the 4 man version, the 6 man version may be especially busted and reliance on dice rolls is exacerbated.

We'll see. Feedback hasn't rolled in from steam yet. Or really anywhere. More than willing to make changes, but my playthrough was not busted.

Don't bang your head against the Mortmal 'there's only one way to make good D&D'-wall. It sounds like you have a defined vision for the mod you want to make, and I'm strongly considering playing it.

Nope disagreeing, but I just realized that 5e tabletop players taking this game on probably expect the sort of balancing that Mortmal is on about, x encounters per rest and what not.

 

[Mortmal]

Then we have different goals. I'm not concerned with following 5e/CR guidance rules. My goal is to make a tactical crpg campaign. You should have something more like 2.5 encounters per rest by the end. I have the ogre's attack, health, and armor slightly lower for the first balance patch. Some of the conditions like Chilled and Asleep are lowered as to the DC. Various small parameter changes coming.

It's not tactical, its masochistic and sadistic design, not unlike kotc2, you guys should have a beer together. But you know at some point its better when more than one or two guy enjoy and play what you made.

Yes, that would explain why the four man version made by the same guy (me) has 6.5k subscribers with a 98% positive rating.

Have not tried the 4 man version, the 6 man version may be especially busted and reliance on dice rolls is exacerbated.

We'll see. Feedback hasn't rolled in from steam yet. Or really anywhere. More than willing to make changes, but my playthrough was not busted.

Don't bang your head against the Mortmal 'there's only one way to make good D&D'-wall. It sounds like you have a defined vision for the mod you want to make, and I'm strongly considering playing it.

Try it and follow the module description,
"Difficulty: The difficulty is intended to be moderate (on authentic). Anyone looking for a seasoned challenge should try Scavenger difficulty or higher.
Suggestions: A balanced party is likely best but nothing is necessary."

That means dont go for min maxing, make just a decent normal party, no carpet bombing fireballs with a full mage party, no cheese, just use solasta authentic level of difficulty. No save scumming , then come back tell us of your impressions. Thats what forums are for .

 

[Artyoan]

Then we have different goals. I'm not concerned with following 5e/CR guidance rules. My goal is to make a tactical crpg campaign. You should have something more like 2.5 encounters per rest by the end. I have the ogre's attack, health, and armor slightly lower for the first balance patch. Some of the conditions like Chilled and Asleep are lowered as to the DC. Various small parameter changes coming.

It's not tactical, its masochistic and sadistic design, not unlike kotc2, you guys should have a beer together. But you know at some point its better when more than one or two guy enjoy and play what you made.

Yes, that would explain why the four man version made by the same guy (me) has 6.5k subscribers with a 98% positive rating.

Have not tried the 4 man version, the 6 man version may be especially busted and reliance on dice rolls is exacerbated.

We'll see. Feedback hasn't rolled in from steam yet. Or really anywhere. More than willing to make changes, but my playthrough was not busted.

Don't bang your head against the Mortmal 'there's only one way to make good D&D'-wall. It sounds like you have a defined vision for the mod you want to make, and I'm strongly considering playing it.

Try it and follow the module description,
"Difficulty: The difficulty is intended to be moderate (on authentic). Anyone looking for a seasoned challenge should try Scavenger difficulty or higher.
Suggestions: A balanced party is likely best but nothing is necessary."

That means dont go for min maxing, make just a decent normal party, no carpet bombing fireballs with a full mage party, no cheese, just use solasta authentic level of difficulty. No save scumming , then come back tell us of your impressions. Thats what forums are for .

I'm all for that, for anyone here as well. Including yourself, without your self described 'melee heavy party', but with a more balanced one. I had a paladin, barbarian, sorcerer, bard, ranged rogue, and melee ranger on mine. No party wipes, just a handful of close calls.

 

[Mortmal]

Well Artyoan at some point i gave up on the 6 men version, reached the isle part the fights were won but half the party downed or worse , was far too much struggle . I tried right now the 4 men older version there and no complaints on balancing, absolutely nothing to do with the 6 man version. This time i was using monk , druid, wizard and warlock.The orc fight at level 1 when triggering the chest ? trivial one character was slightly grazed...Incredible the difference between the two versions.

 

[Artyoan]

Well Artyoan at some point i gave up on the 6 men version, reached the isle part the fights were won but half the party downed or worse , was far too much struggle . I tried right now the 4 men older version there and no complaints on balancing, absolutely nothing to do with the 6 man version. This time i was using monk , druid, wizard and warlock.The orc fight at level 1 when triggering the chest ? trivial one character was slightly grazed...Incredible the difference between the two versions.

They aren't that different. The synergy between six party members, as well as loads of UB extra feat/subclass options for a campaign that requires UB, means the curve is different but most of that curve up comes later on. Early its mostly a matter of a couple or a few extra enemies. You can refight that same Orc battle over and over again with different initiative rolls on four or six and it will change wildly. I didn't get hit on six. If you do the four in full, go back and try the six again. New party.

 

[Grunker]

Then we have different goals. I'm not concerned with following 5e/CR guidance rules. My goal is to make a tactical crpg campaign. You should have something more like 2.5 encounters per rest by the end. I have the ogre's attack, health, and armor slightly lower for the first balance patch. Some of the conditions like Chilled and Asleep are lowered as to the DC. Various small parameter changes coming.

It's not tactical, its masochistic and sadistic design, not unlike kotc2, you guys should have a beer together. But you know at some point its better when more than one or two guy enjoy and play what you made.

Yes, that would explain why the four man version made by the same guy (me) has 6.5k subscribers with a 98% positive rating.

Have not tried the 4 man version, the 6 man version may be especially busted and reliance on dice rolls is exacerbated.

We'll see. Feedback hasn't rolled in from steam yet. Or really anywhere. More than willing to make changes, but my playthrough was not busted.

Don't bang your head against the Mortmal 'there's only one way to make good D&D'-wall. It sounds like you have a defined vision for the mod you want to make, and I'm strongly considering playing it.

Nope disagreeing, but I just realized that 5e tabletop players taking this game on probably expect the sort of balancing that Mortmal is on about, x encounters per rest and what not.

I am a 5E tabletop player and I expect no such thing

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Then we have different goals. I'm not concerned with following 5e/CR guidance rules. My goal is to make a tactical crpg campaign. You should have something more like 2.5 encounters per rest by the end. I have the ogre's attack, health, and armor slightly lower for the first balance patch. Some of the conditions like Chilled and Asleep are lowered as to the DC. Various small parameter changes coming.

It's not tactical, its masochistic and sadistic design, not unlike kotc2, you guys should have a beer together. But you know at some point its better when more than one or two guy enjoy and play what you made.

Yes, that would explain why the four man version made by the same guy (me) has 6.5k subscribers with a 98% positive rating.

Have not tried the 4 man version, the 6 man version may be especially busted and reliance on dice rolls is exacerbated.

We'll see. Feedback hasn't rolled in from steam yet. Or really anywhere. More than willing to make changes, but my playthrough was not busted.

Don't bang your head against the Mortmal 'there's only one way to make good D&D'-wall. It sounds like you have a defined vision for the mod you want to make, and I'm strongly considering playing it.

Nope disagreeing, but I just realized that 5e tabletop players taking this game on probably expect the sort of balancing that Mortmal is on about, x encounters per rest and what not.

I am a 5E tabletop player and I expect no such thing

When you're not playing Pathfinder

 

[Mortmal]

Then we have different goals. I'm not concerned with following 5e/CR guidance rules. My goal is to make a tactical crpg campaign. You should have something more like 2.5 encounters per rest by the end. I have the ogre's attack, health, and armor slightly lower for the first balance patch. Some of the conditions like Chilled and Asleep are lowered as to the DC. Various small parameter changes coming.

It's not tactical, its masochistic and sadistic design, not unlike kotc2, you guys should have a beer together. But you know at some point its better when more than one or two guy enjoy and play what you made.

Yes, that would explain why the four man version made by the same guy (me) has 6.5k subscribers with a 98% positive rating.

Have not tried the 4 man version, the 6 man version may be especially busted and reliance on dice rolls is exacerbated.

We'll see. Feedback hasn't rolled in from steam yet. Or really anywhere. More than willing to make changes, but my playthrough was not busted.

Don't bang your head against the Mortmal 'there's only one way to make good D&D'-wall. It sounds like you have a defined vision for the mod you want to make, and I'm strongly considering playing it.

Nope disagreeing, but I just realized that 5e tabletop players taking this game on probably expect the sort of balancing that Mortmal is on about, x encounters per rest and what not.

I am a 5E tabletop player and I expect no such thing

There's 5e tabletop players and 5E tabletop players... There's no wrong way to play D&d ,some improvize play , nothing serious , expecting nothing, nothing prepared and balanced, inane and cringe campaigns than wont go past level 3 ever.Those could as well play mario kart and eat pizza instead. Then there's some doing only narrative roleplay when its not ero roleplay and gladly posting their char and group commisioned art on r/dnd nd r/dndnsfw, never discussing gameplay mechanics ever.
Then there's some like me spending hundreds of hours on their campaign expecting some balance, having every encounters calculated and tailored for the group of players. An easier task offline of course its impossible to do that completely with a solasta mod as theres too many party combinations.

 

[Mortmal]

Well Artyoan at some point i gave up on the 6 men version, reached the isle part the fights were won but half the party downed or worse , was far too much struggle . I tried right now the 4 men older version there and no complaints on balancing, absolutely nothing to do with the 6 man version. This time i was using monk , druid, wizard and warlock.The orc fight at level 1 when triggering the chest ? trivial one character was slightly grazed...Incredible the difference between the two versions.

They aren't that different. The synergy between six party members, as well as loads of UB extra feat/subclass options for a campaign that requires UB, means the curve is different but most of that curve up comes later on. Early its mostly a matter of a couple or a few extra enemies. You can refight that same Orc battle over and over again with different initiative rolls on four or six and it will change wildly. I didn't get hit on six. If you do the four in full, go back and try the six again. New party.

I find them MUCH different, in the 4 man version the bandit captain fight is completely doable, a few goons with him in the same room you can manage it much more easily, one control spell in room you can do them one by one mostly and their stats are reasonable. In the 6 man version you doubled the number of enemies , some as i said spawn out of thin air at range, which makes much harder to use control spell, they are using sleeping arrows, and are backed by veterans with three attack by round , one failed save against those arrows and its over already , the veterans will close in very fast and land 3 attacks with advantage. Then the captain is now hp bloated with a weapon preventing party members to heal(and you dont even loot that weapon).
All of that just for 2 exra members ! I think you should change the module description and warn people its for masochistic players with a very optimized party.
No surprise your first version was much liked, the 4 man version is thoroughly enjoyable, the 6 one that's another story...

 

[Artyoan]

Well Artyoan at some point i gave up on the 6 men version, reached the isle part the fights were won but half the party downed or worse , was far too much struggle . I tried right now the 4 men older version there and no complaints on balancing, absolutely nothing to do with the 6 man version. This time i was using monk , druid, wizard and warlock.The orc fight at level 1 when triggering the chest ? trivial one character was slightly grazed...Incredible the difference between the two versions.

They aren't that different. The synergy between six party members, as well as loads of UB extra feat/subclass options for a campaign that requires UB, means the curve is different but most of that curve up comes later on. Early its mostly a matter of a couple or a few extra enemies. You can refight that same Orc battle over and over again with different initiative rolls on four or six and it will change wildly. I didn't get hit on six. If you do the four in full, go back and try the six again. New party.

I find them MUCH different, in the 4 man version the bandit captain fight is completely doable, a few goons with him in the same room you can manage it much more easily, one control spell in room you can do them one by one mostly and their stats are reasonable. In the 6 man version you doubled the number of enemies , some as i said spawn out of thin air at range, which makes much harder to use control spell, they are using sleeping arrows, and are backed by veterans with three attack by round , one failed save against those arrows and its over already , the veterans will close in very fast and land 3 attacks with advantage. Then the captain is now hp bloated with a weapon preventing party members to heal(and you dont even loot that weapon).
All of that just for 2 exra members ! I think you should change the module description and warn people its for masochistic players with a very optimized party.
No surprise your first version was much liked, the 4 man version is thoroughly enjoyable, the 6 one that's another story...

You had lower party synergy and were overly heavy melee. As I said, try it again when you finish the four. I couldn't stuff more enemies in a tiny room so having a pincer attack there makes a lot of sense for six. Thats one of the few battles where I changed the nature of it from mundane to something actually difficult. The last patch moved the backside enemies farther out and I did lower the bandit captain health.

I added to the workshop description as to suggestions of how to build the party. If you're using things like bless, blind, actual ranged damage to pick apart ranged threats, you have options. If you made it to the isle you made it past that fort fight prior to entering the chapel. You had to have been hitting your stride even with a lopsided party to beat that and not comment on it. Put sentinel fighting style and more defensive feat options on some of your melee and you probably would have been fine through the rest of the campaign.

 

[Reinhardt]

if only faces didn't looked full they/them...

 

[Mortmal]

If only at rpgcodex they would discuss more rgps and less their gender issues.

 

[Shrimp]

I, for one, am glad that the game as well as the developers seem to be doing well.
When I played it at its release I thought it essentially just was a satisfying 5e combat simulator with little to no replayability due to the linear nature of the campaign and the low amount of classes (at the time). Given the nature of the game and the time frame in which it was released it was bound to be hiding in the shadow of the much larger Baldur's Gate 3. Instead of getting outclassed it ended up having features like light and darkness, mid-dialogue character selection, a functional reaction system and an implementation of verticality and flying that ended up putting a game with a multimillion budget and staff behind it to shame.

The game's been receiving a handful of new campaigns and classes since then. Although I haven't played the new additions myself, I get the impression that between those and the userbase that makes their own custom campaigns and scenarios that both the studio and the game both are doing quite well.

 

[notpl]

I, for one, am glad that the game as well as the developers seem to be doing well.
When I played it at its release I thought it essentially just was a satisfying 5e combat simulator with little to no replayability due to the linear nature of the campaign and the low amount of classes (at the time). Given the nature of the game and the time frame in which it was released it was bound to be hiding in the shadow of the much larger Baldur's Gate 3. Instead of getting outclassed it ended up having features like light and darkness, mid-dialogue character selection, a functional reaction system and an implementation of verticality and flying that ended up putting a game with a multimillion budget and staff behind it to shame.

The game's been receiving a handful of new campaigns and classes since then. Although I haven't played the new additions myself, I get the impression that between those and the userbase that makes their own custom campaigns and scenarios that both the studio and the game both are doing quite well.

Being the only d&d game in a fourteen year drought is a pretty cushy position, as it turns out.

 

[lukaszek]

reduce party size down to 3

 

[Artyoan]

I, for one, am glad that the game as well as the developers seem to be doing well.
When I played it at its release I thought it essentially just was a satisfying 5e combat simulator with little to no replayability due to the linear nature of the campaign and the low amount of classes (at the time). Given the nature of the game and the time frame in which it was released it was bound to be hiding in the shadow of the much larger Baldur's Gate 3. Instead of getting outclassed it ended up having features like light and darkness, mid-dialogue character selection, a functional reaction system and an implementation of verticality and flying that ended up putting a game with a multimillion budget and staff behind it to shame.

The game's been receiving a handful of new campaigns and classes since then. Although I haven't played the new additions myself, I get the impression that between those and the userbase that makes their own custom campaigns and scenarios that both the studio and the game both are doing quite well.

No idea how they are doing financially but probably decent. Custom campaigns will give the game a lot of life but I don't think the existence of the DM portion is all that well known. Many user reviews don't mention it and streams are almost always the main campaigns (and very low count) when I check twitch occasionally. There is a timeline chart of subscribers on the steam workshop that I can track the growth over time but that is more of an indirect proxy than a solid sign of the game's health overall. Another issue is that the Steam Workshop has very high sub numbers for very old campaigns that lack a great deal of the current functionality. So if first impressions are negative, they may stay negative. Hard to delineate good from bad without word of mouth in compiled user workshop lists. Some of the authors basically need to excuse their own mod in the description or be berated by users that don't know the history, which is a bit depressing.

 

[Mortmal]

We will never get answers on this but i think they are just doing barely even . Around 458k units solds according vginsight , 11 millions $ gross revenues , steam take 25% of that already 8250000 only left , now the tax office takes another 25% 2062500 more lost .
6187 500 euros left to pay everyone and the rent . 20 people , A senior developper will cost 104000 euros by year with taxes. Myrzym posting on the codex more likely 78000. So hard to tell how much those 20 people cost. Let says 2080000 X3 years of development 62840000.. Wait no ! in this case they are losing money . So we cant pay them as senior developpers, and there's stil the rent for the office .
500 euro/M2 by year , so we need to estimate the living space for myrzym and his friends . Since were on a buget lets give them 2 m2 of living space to them that will be a rent of 20K by year so 60K ,quite possibly some of it in my pockets.Add to that various insurances and diverses bills...

As you can see if you cut massively their wages and park them in small cubicles , feed them daily with nutritious sludges, they are just making it even.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Eh, I suspect they're doing a bit better than that. If nothing else...

now the tax office takes another 25% 2062500 more lost .

Is France's corporate rate really around 25%? That's bananas. But even so, that should be off the bottom, not off the top. In practice, it won't be anywhere near 25% of revenue even if that is your corporate rate. Depending on how efficient the enterprise is, somewhere around 2-5% or so of revenue is a more realistic actual result if you're going to ass pull.

 

[Mortmal]

Eh, I suspect they're doing a bit better than that. If nothing else...

now the tax office takes another 25% 2062500 more lost .

Is France's corporate rate really around 25%? That's bananas. But even so, that should be off the bottom, not off the top. In practice, it won't be anywhere near 25% of revenue even if that is your corporate rate. Depending on how efficient the enterprise is, somewhere around 2-5% or so of revenue is a more realistic actual result if you're going to ass pull.

yeah 25% but theres different status, in their case its that...

 

[Mortmal]

I think they are probably in the same situation as SSI in the old days, they took that niche. And we all know how SSI end up, a very fragile society, one failure and its over.

 

[Mortmal]

Just checked in 2020 they had a little more than 1000000 of debt already, so there's some interest rate on that too to take into account.

 

[Reinhardt]

posting on the codex more likely 78000

where do i sign?

 

[lukaszek]

people want 6 man parties like if they had 5 friends in real life