KickStarter Solasta: Crown of the Magister Thread - now with Palace of Ice sequel DLC

[Mortmal]

I think D&D—and I mean the broad D&D, from AD&D to 5E—is meant for dungeon crawling first and very linear storytelling. If you look at the original modules, you'll find them incredibly linear too. The system is ancient and calibrated for that, so you might never be fully satisfied with it. We still don’t know if there’s going to be a Solasta 2, or if they’ll keep using 5E or switch to Pathfinder, and there’s really little communication from their side, as if it’s some government secret.

 

[Artyoan]

I think D&D—and I mean the broad D&D, from AD&D to 5E—is meant for dungeon crawling first and very linear storytelling. If you look at the original modules, you'll find them incredibly linear too. The system is ancient and calibrated for that, so you might never be fully satisfied with it. We still don’t know if there’s going to be a Solasta 2, or if they’ll keep using 5E or switch to Pathfinder, and there’s really little communication from their side, as if it’s some government secret.

No idea when they'll reveal what they're doing but I think it will be Solasta 2 based on this:
-Past interviews with the CEO about 5e and the dude seemed to be in love with that. Might just be given his product featured it but I'd guess he genuinely, personally loves it.
-They re-released the Solasta campaign rulebook
-5e has a number of rule changes with the new handbook that they could take advantage of
-(I believe) Myzzrym used the term 'Solasta 1' during their final twitch video when speaking of the post-game retrospective. Which tells me that they are delineating between the two in discussion as Solasta 1 and Solasta 2.
-The only teaser image for their new project shows ruined statues with floating rocks along a coastline. West of the Badlands (areas not seen in Solasta 1) feature lots of sea related lore and the game already had disjointed ruins of Tirmar colliding with Solasta in the Cataclysm.
-An old article states a new studio they had acquired was working on a new game set in the same universe

Plans can change but I'm guessing it's still Solasta 2. Unless WotC drove them off. Or BG3 told them to go a new direction.

 

[Mortmal]

The logical and less costly option should be a Solasta 2, with a new 1-10 campaign, new sub classes, and the ability to use previous assets in the DM toolset. But WotC could have driven them off—they're prone to retardation, so it's possible—or they might have asked them to do BG4. That's one of the rare studios able to do this; only Owlcat and Obsidian are left.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I think D&D—and I mean the broad D&D, from AD&D to 5E—is meant for dungeon crawling first and very linear storytelling. If you look at the original modules, you'll find them incredibly linear too.

Someone has never read the article "Dungeon Mapping", written by the mysterious personage known only as Melan.

 

[Artyoan]

The logical and less costly option should be a Solasta 2, with a new 1-10 campaign, new sub classes, and the ability to use previous assets in the DM toolset. But WotC could have driven them off—they're prone to retardation, so it's possible—or they might have asked them to do BG4. That's one of the rare studios able to do this; only Owlcat and Obsidian are left.

If I were them, I would want to hit the ground running with marketing on a new DM feature. Allowing for past DM stuff to be usable in the new game would be a great way to do that. I think that's still highly unlikely but possible. I wouldn't complain if the stuff I already made had a second life.

 

[rojay]

I think D&D—and I mean the broad D&D, from AD&D to 5E—is meant for dungeon crawling first and very linear storytelling. If you look at the original modules, you'll find them incredibly linear too. The system is ancient and calibrated for that, so you might never be fully satisfied with it.

You're right about the old modules being fairly linear, but I don't think that's a D&D thing as much as a "If we write a module for publication, we have to have a coherent story to tell" thing. Otherwise the module would be just suggestions for the DM, "If your players do this, then ... " and there's no accounting for what players will do if they are free to do whatever they want.

The logical and less costly option should be a Solasta 2, with a new 1-10 campaign, new sub classes, and the ability to use previous assets in the DM toolset. But WotC could have driven them off—they're prone to retardation, so it's possible—or they might have asked them to do BG4. That's one of the rare studios able to do this; only Owlcat and Obsidian are left.

If I were them, I would want to hit the ground running with marketing on a new DM feature. Allowing for past DM stuff to be usable in the new game would be a great way to do that. I think that's still highly unlikely but possible. I wouldn't complain if the stuff I already made had a second life.

Your perspective may be a bit skewed, Arty. I hope they improve the tools and add features and would love to see backwards compatibility but I doubt that's what the marketers are looking to focus on.

 

[Artyoan]

The logical and less costly option should be a Solasta 2, with a new 1-10 campaign, new sub classes, and the ability to use previous assets in the DM toolset. But WotC could have driven them off—they're prone to retardation, so it's possible—or they might have asked them to do BG4. That's one of the rare studios able to do this; only Owlcat and Obsidian are left.

If I were them, I would want to hit the ground running with marketing on a new DM feature. Allowing for past DM stuff to be usable in the new game would be a great way to do that. I think that's still highly unlikely but possible. I wouldn't complain if the stuff I already made had a second life.

Your perspective may be a bit skewed, Arty. I hope they improve the tools and add features and would love to see backwards compatibility but I doubt that's what the marketers are looking to focus on.

In my mind, the good niche to carve out would be to make a crpg that is extremely open to mods and an easier-to-use campaign maker with which they can allow people to churn out content with which to play those mods. The DM was an afterthought in Solasta 1 but became half of the appeal for DLC. But if people could not only do as Unfinished Business did, but add models for hairstyles, weaponry, armor sets, locations, etc then they have the basis for a long term creator's paradise. Just need to monetize it. Hopefully not in an abusive way.

 

[rojay]

The logical and less costly option should be a Solasta 2, with a new 1-10 campaign, new sub classes, and the ability to use previous assets in the DM toolset. But WotC could have driven them off—they're prone to retardation, so it's possible—or they might have asked them to do BG4. That's one of the rare studios able to do this; only Owlcat and Obsidian are left.

If I were them, I would want to hit the ground running with marketing on a new DM feature. Allowing for past DM stuff to be usable in the new game would be a great way to do that. I think that's still highly unlikely but possible. I wouldn't complain if the stuff I already made had a second life.

Your perspective may be a bit skewed, Arty. I hope they improve the tools and add features and would love to see backwards compatibility but I doubt that's what the marketers are looking to focus on.

In my mind, the good niche to carve out would be to make a crpg that is extremely open to mods and an easier-to-use campaign maker with which they can allow people to churn out content with which to play those mods. The DM was an afterthought in Solasta 1 but became half of the appeal for DLC. But if people could not only do as Unfinished Business did, but add models for hairstyles, weaponry, armor sets, locations, etc then they have the basis for a long term creator's paradise. Just need to monetize it. Hopefully not in an abusive way.

I can see that.

Hard to monetize, though. If they do it in an abusive way they might as well not do it, but if they rely on donations from goodwill they probably won't make a lot either. How do you think they could do it in a feasible way?

 

[Artyoan]

I can see that.

Hard to monetize, though. If they do it in an abusive way they might as well not do it, but if they rely on donations from goodwill they probably won't make a lot either. How do you think they could do it in a feasible way?

The current situation in Solasta 1 is that anything in the DM is just functionality and assets derived from official campaigns. Which keeps it cheap to make. But one of the main reasons that Myzzrym gave for them leaving Solasta 1 behind is that the game was never built for expansion. As he put it, the foundations of the house are looking cracked and adding rooms is a fire hazard and all sorts of issues keep coming up.

A Solasta 2 could keep a similar structure for dlc. An official campaign is designed and assets are used in the dungeon maker but with the foundations corrected for long term viability. If the game has enough creators and players of dungeon maker material, they could go beyond the safety net of just using official material in a secondary way. Anyone using DM assets from an expansion means everyone who wants to play it needs those expansions so in theory they can still make money by continuously adding on.

 

[MerchantKing]

If I were them, I would just make a GURPS dungeon crawler.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

If I were them, I would just make a GURPS dungeon crawler.

Even better, a post-apocalyptic science-fiction game with the GURPS ruleset.

 

[mediocrepoet]

If I were them, I would just make a GURPS dungeon crawler.

Even better, a post-apocalyptic science-fiction game with the GURPS ruleset.

Even better, anything that isn't using GURPS. Fuck GURPS.

 

[scytheavatar]

The logical and less costly option should be a Solasta 2, with a new 1-10 campaign, new sub classes, and the ability to use previous assets in the DM toolset. But WotC could have driven them off—they're prone to retardation, so it's possible—or they might have asked them to do BG4. That's one of the rare studios able to do this; only Owlcat and Obsidian are left.

If I were them, I would want to hit the ground running with marketing on a new DM feature. Allowing for past DM stuff to be usable in the new game would be a great way to do that. I think that's still highly unlikely but possible. I wouldn't complain if the stuff I already made had a second life.

Your perspective may be a bit skewed, Arty. I hope they improve the tools and add features and would love to see backwards compatibility but I doubt that's what the marketers are looking to focus on.

In my mind, the good niche to carve out would be to make a crpg that is extremely open to mods and an easier-to-use campaign maker with which they can allow people to churn out content with which to play those mods. The DM was an afterthought in Solasta 1 but became half of the appeal for DLC. But if people could not only do as Unfinished Business did, but add models for hairstyles, weaponry, armor sets, locations, etc then they have the basis for a long term creator's paradise. Just need to monetize it. Hopefully not in an abusive way.

Tactical Adventures will very quickly face the same problems Larian faced when they try to support modding. They are not a tools company and to create robust modding tools on the level of Neverwinter Nights is not a trivial manner. Especially when Solasta is built in Unity which is a sign that the people in Tactical Adventures are not the most technical competent. I think a lot of people underestimate how much time and effort it will take to produce a modern day Neverwinter Nights.

 

[IDtenT]

Was Solasta successful enough to A) get them a full 5e license, B) WotC moneys C) ability to hire more coding technical staff?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Was Solasta successful enough to A) get them a full 5e license, B) WotC moneys C) ability to hire more coding technical staff?

Doubt it

 

[scytheavatar]

Was Solasta successful enough to A) get them a full 5e license, B) WotC moneys C) ability to hire more coding technical staff?

Why would Tactical Adventures need a "full 5e license"? The whole advantage of their setup is that what they do is none of WoTC's business and they do not need to work with those people. You know, the same people who mindbroke and traumatized Swen so badly that he now insists on having full control of his future games.

 

[Mortmal]

It's true, it's weird that Swen completely dropped WotC and wants full control again, considering it was his most successful game ever, a crowning achievement. So we can assume it’s a pain to get the 5E license, and it’s not going to be any easier for an indie studio. That’s where the opportunity to use the ORC license and Pathfinder 2E comes in. It has its advantages—it’s more complex than 5E but more suitable for a computer handling all the tracking and rolls. Plus, it’s very LGBT-friendly; by the way, a sex change potion is only 20 gp. If that doesn’t please tactical devs, nothing will.

 

[scytheavatar]

It's true, it's weird that Swen completely dropped WotC and wants full control again, considering it was his most successful game ever, a crowning achievement. So we can assume it’s a pain to get the 5E license, and it’s not going to be any easier for an indie studio. That’s where the opportunity to use the ORC license and Pathfinder 2E comes in. It has its advantages—it’s more complex than 5E but more suitable for a computer handling all the tracking and rolls. Plus, it’s very LGBT-friendly; by the way, a sex change potion is only 20 gp. If that doesn’t please tactical devs, nothing will.

The main problem with Pathfinder 2e is that the rules are highly integrated to the Golarion setting and it is not easy to transplant the rules to home-brewed settings. Lots of unconventional classes like Alchemist/Thaumaturge/Kineticist are not easy to put into a generic fantasy setting. not to mention firearms which Owlcat should have added to their games but didn't. So the wisdom of Tactical Adventures going Pathfinder 2e is debatable. Although there are opportunities there.

 

[Artyoan]

Tactical Adventures will very quickly face the same problems Larian faced when they try to support modding. They are not a tools company and to create robust modding tools on the level of Neverwinter Nights is not a trivial manner. Especially when Solasta is built in Unity which is a sign that the people in Tactical Adventures are not the most technical competent. I think a lot of people underestimate how much time and effort it will take to produce a modern day Neverwinter Nights.

They don't necessarily need modding tools. They just need for modders to be able to easily implement content like hairstyles, armor/weapon models, spell effects, monsters, etc that can then be made use of by the dungeon maker creator. I'm not expecting an NWN successor necessarily, just that if they want a true niche and a plausible path forward then they can build a foundation that allows for expansion in far more ways from modding while also allowing for an editor that remains relatively simple so nearly anyone can use it to some degree.

Also, to your point, this is what TA said about the dungeon maker and their initial plans for it:

From the rulebook

 

[NJClaw]

The main problem with Pathfinder 2e

The main problem with Pathfinder 2e is that nobody plays it and nobody cares about it.

I have no way to prove it, but I'm sure Solasta's sales were hard carried by the whole "D&D 5E" thing. Everyone loves D&D, literally nobody but the worst nerds care about Pathfinder 2e.

 

[lukaszek]

The main problem with Pathfinder 2e

The main problem with Pathfinder 2e is that nobody plays it and nobody cares about it.

I have no way to prove it, but I'm sure Solasta's sales were hard carried by the whole "D&D 5E" thing. Everyone loves D&D, literally nobody but the worst nerds care about Pathfinder 2e.

dunno about systems. pathfinder kangmaker was needlessly complicated due to all the redundancies. Talking about stuff like arcane rogue vs archeologist vs rogue/wizz.
Then i was wondering how much time was wasted to implement all of that. Maybe differences between paladin/inquisitor/war cleric make sense in pnp but in crpg is just head scratching.

 

[Artyoan]

Found this on youtube. A year old video. In it is the Tactical Adventures CEO giving a presentation on what they learned so far in adapting Solasta from Unity to Unreal engine. No idea what he's saying, obviously, but the slides are english.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eUpT7hgaZM

Slide image

Edit: Worth noting that the video description says the presentation was June of 2023. Unity attempted the rugpull license changes in Sept of 2023.

 

[Artyoan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnq53A3OW28

This was uploaded six days ago. It is Our Guy Emile 'Myzzrym' Zhang giving a speech essentially about how to deal with the often angry and irrational mob. I watched most of it but it isn't directly about Solasta necessarily. Still, he had one line at 2:45 in the vid saying this: "Or maybe you know that there is this feature that people are super excited about in your upcoming game but you didn't have the time to implement it so... crap."


The irony of low information assumption making in the context of his speech is not lost on me. I'll keep expectations in check.

 

[Mortmal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnq53A3OW28

This was uploaded six days ago. It is Our Guy Emile 'Myzzrym' Zhang giving a speech essentially about how to deal with the often angry and irrational mob. I watched most of it but it isn't directly about Solasta necessarily. Still, he had one line at 2:45 in the vid saying this: "Or maybe you know that there is this feature that people are super excited about in your upcoming game but you didn't have the time to implement it so... crap."


The irony of low information assumption making in the context of his speech is not lost on me. I'll keep expectations in check.

Thanks for wasting an hour of your life watching this. It's completely uninformative—nothing learned about their new game, and it's clear he just likes to hear himself talk. And I know what I'm talking about, being a Codexer.

 

[Artyoan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnq53A3OW28

This was uploaded six days ago. It is Our Guy Emile 'Myzzrym' Zhang giving a speech essentially about how to deal with the often angry and irrational mob. I watched most of it but it isn't directly about Solasta necessarily. Still, he had one line at 2:45 in the vid saying this: "Or maybe you know that there is this feature that people are super excited about in your upcoming game but you didn't have the time to implement it so... crap."


The irony of low information assumption making in the context of his speech is not lost on me. I'll keep expectations in check.

Thanks for wasting an hour of your life watching this. It's completely uninformative—nothing learned about their new game, and it's clear he just likes to hear himself talk. And I know what I'm talking about, being a Codexer.

I listen to music, podcasts, and stuff like this while tooling around in the dungeon maker or grinding in a jrpg. The patrician way to waste an hour or two of a man's life.