Editorial Some thoughts on the Fallout 3 article

[Amasius]

I guess Robur is in fact Roland Austinat, former US correspondent for the biggest german game magazin Gamestar:

I don't know for whom he is working now, but it is nice to see a game journalist - rightfully - backbiting about his colleagues.

 

[Vault Dweller]

There could be many options, but only two are likely.

The logic for that escapes me. Options that are not likely to you aren't feasible options? Interesting.

I guess you are not familiar with Bethesda.

Forfeited - aren't we a bit serious in here?

Internet is a serious business

Sure, no biggie. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't post that e-mail and the link I just sent you here. These are my private thoughts and not those of any of my employers. Thanks.

Ok, my overly private friend. I'll ask for a small favor in return. When the magazine with your article is out, our readers and I would appreciate a transcript of your article in English, to save us the trouble of hunting it down and avoid any translation mistakes. Thanks in advance.

 

[robur]

I don't know for whom he is working now, but it is nice to see a game journalist - rightfully - backbiting about his colleagues.

Hey, you know your Google. That picture is three years old already.

I'm not in the business of backbiting. I'm in the business of providing information to our readers.

Maybe it comes with age, but I'd just like to see two things, online and in print a bit more often:

- people (i.e. internet posters) giving other people (i.e. game developers) the benefit of a doubt about those things not written about but which might exist regardless,

- people (i.e. journalists on assignment) asking other people (i.e. game developers) about those things not presented but which might exist regardless.

That's all, folks.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Maybe it comes with age, but I'd just like to see two things, online and in print a bit more often:

- people (i.e. internet posters) giving other people (i.e. game developers) the benefit of a doubt about those things not written about but which might exist regardless...

Bethesda has a history of lying and appealing to the lowest common denominator in order to sell more copies. Bethesda was a trusted and respected developer after Daggerfall. After Oblivion, nothing Beth claims could be taken at face value. Sad, but true. Keep that in mind when you write your article. My claims could be easily verified.

As another posted said: "Anyone optimistic needs to stop taking the stupid pills and replay Oblivion, or do you think the reason that game is missing interesting quests, multiple endings, choices and consequences, detailed NPC interaction is because it wouldn't belong in the Elder Scroll series?"

As for the age thing, I too was born in 1970, Roland. It's not your average teenage forum.

 

[robur]

Ok, my overly private friend. I'll ask for a small favor in return. When the magazine with your article is out, our readers and I would appreciate a transcript of your article in English, to save us the trouble of hunting it down and avoid any translation mistakes. Thanks in advance.

Well, I'll be happy to answer questions you and your readers might have in, say, a good two weeks from now. But I'm sorry that I can't provide you with any of my employer's property, i.e. my articles. Things journalists write for their media outlets usually becomes those outlet's property and they can do with them whatever they want. Wish I'd have gotten royalties for reprints or DVD PDF compilations. Maybe a career in rock music wouldn't be all that bad, ASCAP be praised.

 

[Amasius]

I'm not in the business of backbiting. I'm in the business of providing information to our readers.

Well, not all of your colleagues share your approach, too much hype and to little critical analysis. Like you said:

Maybe the journalist should have had asked more questions or taken notes during the presentation to ask them afterwards instead of doing the old "everything's soooo awesome" article. I've sat in many game presentations over the last 14 years and have been constantly amazed about the type of questions some US journos are - not - asking.

Maybe it comes with age, but I'd just like to see two things, online and in print a bit more often:

- people (i.e. internet posters) giving other people (i.e. game developers) the benefit of a doubt about those things not written about but which might exist regardless,

Bethesda has lost any benefit of a doubt after Oblivion. Any. Oblivion... an accurate description of the current state of game journalism.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ok, my overly private friend. I'll ask for a small favor in return. When the magazine with your article is out, our readers and I would appreciate a transcript of your article in English, to save us the trouble of hunting it down and avoid any translation mistakes. Thanks in advance.

Well, I'll be happy to answer questions you and your readers might have in, say, a good two weeks from now.

Perfect. It's a date. Thanks.

 

[psycojester]

And the mighty internet warriors sheave their swords.

 

[Volourn]

*FART*




..... To add something on topic, I should sayd espite my disspaointment in VD's article, I think FO3 will nolt be good simply because I feel Betehsda just plainly sucks as a developer so no matter how cool the game may sound; it's gonna suck because they cna't make good games. that includes, espicially so, Daggerfall btw.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Here's one thing to think about. Just because the article didn't mention any different choices, what makes you think that there aren't any?

Bethesda failed at making choices in Morrowind and Oblivion (Hint: There weren't any). With the huge font (little room for text), hand-held quests (pop-up boxes anyone?), lack of actual dialogue responses ("Rumours?") and the rest of the lameness, it's a tough call to expect Bethesda will be able to pull it off for Fallout 3. To go from no choices with no consequences to a Fallout level of choice and consequence is a big leap.

Maybe the journalist should have had asked more questions or taken notes during the presentation to ask them afterwards instead of doing the old "everything's soooo awesome" article. I've sat in many game presentations over the last 14 years and have been constantly amazed about the type of questions some US journos are - not - asking.

I'd love to debunk some of the bogus above, but then I'm under NDA.

And you wonder why we're so jaded?

As crazy as it sounds, a nuclear catapult isn't that crazy. During the Cold War, the US developed the Davy Crockett, a nuclear recoilless rifle. It meant instant death from radiation withing 500 feet of impact. The whole thing weighed about 35 kg, so it was definitely man portable (though there was also stuff like a tripod which required a three-man crew).

 

[Amasius]

Hm, Mr. Austinat was part of the prerelease hype of Oblivion:

So wie Oblivion sahen vor noch wenigen Jahren vorgerenderte Zwischensequenzen aus. Und dank der Radiant-KI, dem überarbeitetem Kampfsystem und der genialen Idee des Level-Offsets kann ich es kaum erwarten, den Kontinent Tamriel zu erkunden. Und diesmal besteht auch nicht Gefahr in der freien Welt verlorenzugehen - ein roter Faden führt durchs Spiel. Mögen die Entwickler bis Weihnachten viele feine Quests schreiben!

My shitty translation:

Just a few years ago only prerendered cutscenes looked like Oblivion. And thanks to the Radiant AI, the revised combat system and the ingenious idea of level scaling I can hardly await it to explore Tamriel. And this time there is no danger to get lost in the free accessible world - a central theme leads through the game. May the developers write until Christmas many nice quests!

 

[robur]

That translation wasn't all too bad. I wrote that preview in January 2005, yup.

And while some people hate level scaling, I'm still ambivalent about it to a certain point. In my opinion, the size of a game world should take care of you and your abilities as you're traveling and learning. Level scaling shouldn't apply to boss fights, but for generic mobs I wouldn't mind seeing it in some games. Not to make hard mobs easier but to make easy mobs at least a bit harder. I'm playing Final Fantasy I at the moment and the random battles with mobs that are way below my level are really awful. Sure, I off them quickly, but I'd rather get a bit more challenged by those guys. Hey, I'm advancing, why aren't they, too? does the bad guy not train his minions? How is his expecting to last against a band of adventurers?

 

[ricolikesrice]

yup, gamestar (and all other german magazines too) are a bunch of graphic whores who sell out to the highest bidder anyways. oblivion scored high reviews and while you non-germans might like the fact that they didnt trash gothic 3 (but rather raved about it left and right...guess why) their whole handling of gothic 3 was just as shitty as the international reviews....

gameplay is secondary in magazines like gamestar, they should name themselves Bloomstar or something.... what did Gal Civ II get again ? 60/100 in a "review" of 5 sentences ? oh yeah, how could those noobs bother making a game without making huge advertisements in gamestar and without having NEXT GEN graphics.... too bad games like Gal Civ II still have more fans then gamestar has readers.....

i d rather thrust a review of IGN or gamespot then gamestar, and that should tell you alot.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

And while some people hate level scaling, I'm still ambivalent about it to a certain point.

Alright, but didn't it bother you that the level scaling (coupled with randomization) basically made the entire "16 square miles" obsolete due to massive "sameness feeling"?

Just have to wonder, especially since "exploring the world" was one of the things you said would be exciting.

 

[robur]

And while some people hate level scaling, I'm still ambivalent about it to a certain point.

Alright, but didn't it bother you that the level scaling (coupled with randomization) basically made the entire "16 square miles" obsolete due to massive "sameness feeling"?

Just have to wonder, especially since "exploring the world" was one of the things you said would be exciting.

I'm a big fan of exploring game worlds. And while some might hate me for it, I'm also a fan of exploring good looking game worlds. My eyes are built to see color, why should I be alright with just black and white? At the same time, just running through a game world without a challenge isn't really that exciting. Does that answer your question?

My fondness for exploration has its limits, though. Personally, I'm not too big a fan of randomly created content. 15,000 cities and 750,000 characters? Hm. I'd change that for a hand crafted, but smaller game world in a heartbeat. Or might as well play an MMO with thousands of *real* players on each server.

Even though exploring several planets with my scout/creature handler in SWG was good fun, too - some might have called it boring, but I found it cool to hover above the ground and see all kinds of animals and land formations.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

I'm a big fan of exploring game worlds. And while some might hate me for it, I'm also a fan of exploring good looking game worlds. My eyes are built to see color, why should I be alright with just black and white? At the same time, just running through a game world without a challenge isn't really that exciting. Does that answer your question?

Not really. I just though it (level scaling) killed the exploration factor in favor of the "challenge" factor. See, every goblin cave I went into would be exactly the same. Same with every necromancer cave, and every other thing. I would never find interesting and unique things, and I'd never find something too difficult to handle. No more hunting through every tomb looking for artifacts, just the grim reality of genericness caused by level scaling.

My fondness for exploration has its limits, though. Personally, I'm not too big a fan of randomly created content. 15,000 cities and 750,000 characters? Hm.

I liked Daggerfall but I agree it was a little excessive.

I'd change that for a hand crafted, but smaller game world in a heartbeat.

Agreed. Although level scaling really took away that hand crafted feel. Finding an ebony dagger in a dark corner of a tomb in Morrowind felt nifty. Finding my third set of [insert leveled armor and/or weapon with a generic enchantment] really felt detached, and gave me a serious Diablo feel. It took away my incentive to explore.

Or might as well play an MMO with thousands of *real* players on each server.

An interesting point. Didn't level scaling give Oblivion that very MMO loot and gear rat race feeling and the same MMO feeling of sameness in equipment?

I don't know, I just don't see what level scaling can do that good design can't. And good design doesn't come with the truckload of issues level scaling does. Might just be me though.

 

[ricolikesrice]

...if gamestar would review a car made by bethesda:


"The TES IV oblivion is wonder of modern technology that you should definitly check out. Lets go for the details first: it has 4 wheels, 2 more than a motorcycle but less than a truck for example. but who likes trucks anyway.
With the TES IV oblivion you can travel at up to 160 km / h speed, which is fast. really fast. faster than a motorcycle and definitly faster then a truck.
Fasttravel means you can be at work, shopping or in the holidays within half the time it would take you by train.
Also the TES IV is modern: it simply looks very shiny and you can get it in 6 different colors. making up your mind about which colour you want can be hard, since they all simply look great. soo many choices.
The TES IV oblivion also feature space for as much as 5 people. Bring your whole family along for the ride - you wont regret it. "
.....
In summary: The TES IV oblivion is a car you must get even if you dont like cars.


...if they d review a game made by anyone non-blizzard/bethesda/bioware/insert sponsor here:


"The XXX car is an insult to cars. it doesnt look shiny, has only 4 wheels, just space for 5 passengers and drives a measily 160km/h which cars have been able to do already 10 years ago. this car is bad, mmkay ?"


i could care less about their RATINGs (afterall different people = different opinions) but their REVIEWS arent reviews or worth beeing called journalism. they are a fucking joke.

 

[robur]

i could care less about their RATINGs (afterall different people = different opinions) but their REVIEWS arent reviews or worth beeing called journalism. they are a fucking joke.

All that anger. Why do you still buy and read game magazines then, young Padawan?

 

[sqeecoo]

i could care less about their RATINGs (afterall different people = different opinions) but their REVIEWS arent reviews or worth beeing called journalism. they are a fucking joke.

All that anger. Why do you still buy and read game magazines then, young Padawan?

Why so that he can complain about them, of course.

 

[ricolikesrice]

i could care less about their RATINGs (afterall different people = different opinions) but their REVIEWS arent reviews or worth beeing called journalism. they are a fucking joke.

All that anger. Why do you still buy and read game magazines then, young Padawan?

who says i do ? there s the internet you know.... granted it takes a bit longer finding out whether i ll enjoy a game or not by searching independant forums then reading PR speech translated from Todd to Gaystar and buying it.... but its soo much safer.
also i cant be that young of a padawan since i remember games with good gameplay like master of magic, master of orion, x-com 1&2, wizardry 7&8 and more...... you obviously dont, so who gives a fuck if a 40y old is just as retarded as the kids he writes for.

 

[robur]

All that anger. Why do you still buy and read game magazines then, young Padawan?

who says i do ? there s the internet you know.... granted it takes a bit longer finding out whether i ll enjoy a game or not by searching independant forums then reading PR speech translated from Todd to Gaystar and buying it.... but its soo much safer.
also i cant be that young of a padawan since i remember games with good gameplay like master of magic, master of orion, x-com 1&2, wizardry 7&8 and more...... you obviously dont, so who gives a fuck if a 40y old is just as retarded as the kids he writes for.

Well, seems that you're still using their language. Good stuff. However, I'm not so sure whether profanity will raise a speaker's credibility or reputation.

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Magic_%28Mastertronic%29">Master of Magic</a>, yep. Really liked that RPG. Bit linear, though. But it had a great soundtrack.

Actually, you didn't really ask me whether I remembered all those games. Last time I checked we were talking about Fallout 3 here.

 

[Punck_D]

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Magic_%28Mastertronic%29">Master of Magic</a>, yep. Really liked that RPG. Bit linear, though. But it had a great soundtrack.

Good one.

I usually don't buy any game magazine, so how would you, in case you want to, convince me to buy the next Gamestar considering I could be one of those "Beth will fuck it up"-geeks for particular reasons?

 

[Amasius]

Last time I checked we were talking about Fallout 3 here.

Thread dereailing is a well established tradition on the Codex and it was your who refuses to talk about Fallout 3 for the next two weeks, right? :wink:

 

[ricolikesrice]

Well, seems that you're still using their language. Good stuff. However, I'm not so sure whether profanity will raise a speaker's credibility or reputation.

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Magic_%28Mastertronic%29">Master of Magic</a>, yep. Really liked that RPG. Bit linear, though. But it had a great soundtrack.

Actually, you didn't really ask me whether I remembered all those games. Last time I checked we were talking about Fallout 3 here.

wow what a witty retort, quite nice. I never said i buy gamestar nor did i say MoM was a cRPG, yet both your replies focus around avoiding the issue at hand and twisting words like the PR shit you are part of, now granted not everyone would fall for it but
funnily enough even at the codex there are retards who buy it like punck_D and sceeqo above.

you related to carsten strehse by chance ?

 

[Punck_D]

funnily enough even at the codex there are retards who buy it like punck_D and sceeqo above.

Learn to read, mein deutscher Kamerad.